V15 Partner/OCI Interviewer Answering Questions... Forum

[Anonymous User]

1. GWU's US News ranking dropped from 25 to 30. Will the drop by itself impact firms' OCI at my school? Will firms take less people or have higher GPA cutoffs?

2. As a non-native speaker, I do think I speak perfect English. How do I show it on my resume?

I studied at a U.S. college, joined a frat and have very active social life. I can be more sociable than 80% of my law school classmates. But my legal name is entirely incomprehensible to people, and all interviewers are noticeably uneasy about saying it until I volunteer that I go by my initials. I feel that naturally hurts my chance at getting screeners. Once I get a screener, I think people realize I speak perfect English. I got a 1L summer V100 firm job and several in-house offers, if it proves anything.

Short of adopting a western name and writing on my resume that I go out a lot, how should I preempt any presumption and demonstrate my English ability? Put a nickname on resume? Put skeet shooting, hunting, indie concert, MLB, It's Always Sunny, etc. in the interest section?

3. I met a partner at a networking event. Chatted for 20 minutes about everything. He volunteered to gave me his card. Is it appropriate or helpful to send a resume with a thank you email without invitation to do so? As an aside, one of my classmates with horrible social skill sent a resume under the same circumstance. The partner passed along his resume. He got a callback interview from a V5 firm for 1L summer job. We have the same GPA.

Thanks!

[itbdvorm]

Can you describe how partners deal with associates who ask to change his or her practice group? How would the supervising/practice group partner of the associate feel/do when told the news?

Disappointed (if well liked) or overjoyed (if not). It's a straightforward conversation usually - goal is to either make you happy in a different group and keep you, or encourage you to go away

Do you think it is better to tell the practice group partner first as a matter of courtesy or talk to the Managing Partner first who promised that associates can talk to him about switching groups? This is in the context of the supervising partner having said NO to other associates and experienced about 4-5 associated quitting on him. There is a chance this partner might outright fire the associate for asking.

I would first raise it as a question with someone else if that's feasible. Better to learn if even at all possible before you make it a huge issue. But realistically I might also inquire w/other firms

[itbdvorm]

I graduated from a T14 without a job. I have a gap in my resume (in which I did a school-funded fellowship + contract attorney work) for many months following graduation. Thereafter, I went to a small firm before I lateraled into biglaw.

What do biglaw interviewers think of someone like me? Will my gap/small firm start be considered a flaw to my candidacy at firms going forward, compared with people who started out in biglaw? I've been asked about it at interviews, and obviously it didn't bar me from getting biglaw, but I'm wondering how much it'll hurt me as time goes by.

Will hurt less and less and your most recent firm will matter more and more.

[itbdvorm]

1. GWU's US News ranking dropped from 25 to 30. Will the drop by itself impact firms' OCI at my school? Will firms take less people or have higher GPA cutoffs?

2. As a non-native speaker, I do think I speak perfect English. How do I show it on my resume?

I studied at a U.S. college, joined a frat and have very active social life. I can be more sociable than 80% of my law school classmates. But my legal name is entirely incomprehensible to people, and all interviewers are noticeably uneasy about saying it until I volunteer that I go by my initials. I feel that naturally hurts my chance at getting screeners. Once I get a screener, I think people realize I speak perfect English. I got a 1L summer V100 firm job and several in-house offers, if it proves anything.

Short of adopting a western name and writing on my resume that I go out a lot, how should I preempt any presumption and demonstrate my English ability? Put a nickname on resume? Put skeet shooting, hunting, indie concert, MLB, It's Always Sunny, etc. in the interest section?

3. I met a partner at a networking event. Chatted for 20 minutes about everything. He volunteered to gave me his card. Is it appropriate or helpful to send a resume with a thank you email without invitation to do so? As an aside, one of my classmates with horrible social skill sent a resume under the same circumstance. The partner passed along his resume. He got a callback interview from a V5 firm for 1L summer job. We have the same GPA.

Thanks!

1) The drop will not matter unless there's a related decline in quality of candidate. I would not have known that unless spelled out for me.

2) Cover letter/writing sample would probably help. I would also include "T-Mac" or whatever you go by in your name on your resume. But otherwise a well-crafted resume will be your best bet, and in-person showing will be effective.

3) he gave you his card. email to follow-up is more than fine.

[Anonymous User]

On a resume for someone with < 2 years of experience (2015 grad) do you recommend putting experience up top first or education? I have 2 law firm experiences (1 small and 1 big) totalling about 1.6 yrs under my belt.

[Anonymous User]

Thoughts on the value of JD/MBAs from T14 JDs with strong business schools (either M7 or top 10) attached? Are hiring partners as skeptical of their intent as some on this forum seem to posit? Or, is it just more so something that would be more of an opportunity cost?

I'd also be curious as to how certain other dual degrees may be valued - i.e. a JD-Masters in Urban Planning (Penn, CLS, or NYU) or JD-Masters in Real Estate Development (CLS/NYU) for someone interested in working primarily in real estate law (or with real estate clients).

[itbdvorm]

For someone with < 2 years of experience (2015 grad) do you recommend putting experience up top first or education? I have 2 law firm experiences (1 small and 1 big) totalling about 1.6 yrs under my belt.

probably experience. where you are is most relevant right now.

[itbdvorm]

Thoughts on the value of JD/MBAs from T14 JDs with strong business schools (either M7 or top 10) attached? Are hiring partners as skeptical of their intent as some on this forum seem to posit? Or, is it just more so something that would be more of an opportunity cost?

I'd also be curious as to how certain other dual degrees may be valued - i.e. a JD-Masters in Urban Planning (Penn, CLS, or NYU) or JD-Masters in Real Estate Development (CLS/NYU) for someone interested in working primarily in real estate law (or with real estate clients).

I'd say can be useful, especially if you want to go into corporate/transactional/relevant/etc.

Worst case scenario - you meet a bunch of new friends, some of whom become important clients. Win/win.

[Anonymous User]

So at the end of my SA stint last summer, we were asked to rank our top 3 preferred practice groups. I rotated through General Corporate (M&A & Securities), Debt Finance, and Real Estate. I enjoyed all three, but still had no idea what I wanted to do. My firm is heavily driven by our M&A department, but i ended up ranking Finance 1, Corporate 2, and Real Estate 3. Recruiting told us that we could change our preferences at any time before the firm places us into our respective groups sometime between the end of July and September. I've been going back and forth about which group to choose, and I really have no idea. I could literally see myself working in the Corporate M&A group just as much as I could see myself work in the Litigation group. Is there something to be said about working in my firm's number one practice group (Gen. Corporate)? It's pretty much the backbone of our firm. Regarding my long-term goals, I'm definitely keeping my options open, one of which includes the possibility of me eventually going back to Florida where I guess I could work for a firm, or maybe in-house at a bank? Any advice on choosing a practice group?

[itbdvorm]

So at the end of my SA stint last summer, we were asked to rank our top 3 preferred practice groups. I rotated through General Corporate (M&A & Securities), Debt Finance, and Real Estate. I enjoyed all three, but still had no idea what I wanted to do. My firm is heavily driven by our M&A department, but i ended up ranking Finance 1, Corporate 2, and Real Estate 3. Recruiting told us that we could change our preferences at any time before the firm places us into our respective groups sometime between the end of July and September. I've been going back and forth about which group to choose, and I really have no idea. I could literally see myself working in the Corporate M&A group just as much as I could see myself work in the Litigation group. Is there something to be said about working in my firm's number one practice group (Gen. Corporate)? It's pretty much the backbone of our firm. Regarding my long-term goals, I'm definitely keeping my options open, one of which includes the possibility of me eventually going back to Florida where I guess I could work for a firm, or maybe in-house at a bank? Any advice on choosing a practice group?

When all else fails, go with where you like the people the most. But corporate/M&A generally will be easier to transition elsewhere than finance (Especially if you're doing NYC lev fin)

[Anonymous User]

A few months ago, you said the following about K&E's Houston office:

. . . quirky outpost with all of the pros/cons of being at Kirkland (great place to be a partner, rough place to be an associate) .
. .

Care to elaborate on what you mean by the pros and cons of being at Kirkland? I'm looking at a different office but I'd assume the same would be true.

I'd also be interested in your views on Kirkland's status generally. One of their offices has been expanding a practice group pretty aggressively and is offering a signing bonus that is bigger than I'd expect; any idea whether this is sustainable? Lateral associates are obviously far cheaper than partners, but is there any chance of a Dewey scenario?

[LurkerTurnedMember]

How do you negotiate clerkship bonuses after you already accepted an offer from the firm (such as a 2L summer clerking for before going back)? And is trying to negotiate the bonus seen negatively such that it might make the firm consider withdrawing an offer or accepted job?

[itbdvorm]

A few months ago, you said the following about K&E's Houston office:

. . . quirky outpost with all of the pros/cons of being at Kirkland (great place to be a partner, rough place to be an associate) .
. .

Care to elaborate on what you mean by the pros and cons of being at Kirkland? I'm looking at a different office but I'd assume the same would be true.

I'd also be interested in your views on Kirkland's status generally. One of their offices has been expanding a practice group pretty aggressively and is offering a signing bonus that is bigger than I'd expect; any idea whether this is sustainable? Lateral associates are obviously far cheaper than partners, but is there any chance of a Dewey scenario?

People either love or hate K&E (and often seems like those at K&E want to convince everyone else to drink the Kool-Aid too). Obviously I can only speak from the outside, but it does certainly seem like they are 100% purely focused on making the most money the can, without any pretense otherwise. So it's eat what you kill to the extreme. Some folks will do very well there - others, not so much.

I frankly doubt Dewey is within the realm of reason for K&E, but who knows. They do give out rather large guarantees to partners to bring them on, but I think they're vicious about slicing them off if they're not performing. So much higher rate of partners coming and going than at some other places.

[itbdvorm]

How do you negotiate clerkship bonuses after you already accepted an offer from the firm (such as a 2L summer clerking for before going back)? And is trying to negotiate the bonus seen negatively such that it might make the firm consider withdrawing an offer or accepted job?

Honestly no idea. Is there reason to think firms negotiate clerkship bonuses? I thought it was a set amount.

[Anonymous User]

Is it okay for 1L summers to reach out to/connect with other firms? (Assuming not on the firm's dime/not during working hours.)
Is it likely for news to spread if one conducts it properly?

I am mildly worried about my current firm finding out somehow and about it reflecting poorly on me that I'm still shopping around either before I've started my SA/during my SA.

[itbdvorm]

Is it okay for 1L summers to reach out to/connect with other firms? (Assuming not on the firm's dime/not during working hours.)
Is it likely for news to spread if one conducts it properly?

I am mildly worried about my current firm finding out somehow and about it reflecting poorly on me that I'm still shopping around either before I've started my SA/during my SA.

Can't imagine news would spread; would seem fine

[itbdvorm]

To be a grouchy old man for ten seconds:

Please, act like adults.

Please, remember that we work in a professional environment, where we expect professionalism at the highest level.

One of my friends just shared an email a junior sent to the entire office that is indescribably moronic and juvenile.

Please tell your friends that when we partners - even the young ones - see something like this from some idiot we've never heard of before, we immediately (a) write that person off entirely and (b) get angry at a generation unfairly.

Don't be that guy. If you wouldn't send an email like the one you're about to send to the stuffiest, angriest person you know, don't send it to the whole office.

[californiauser]

So at the end of my SA stint last summer, we were asked to rank our top 3 preferred practice groups. I rotated through General Corporate (M&A & Securities), Debt Finance, and Real Estate. I enjoyed all three, but still had no idea what I wanted to do. My firm is heavily driven by our M&A department, but i ended up ranking Finance 1, Corporate 2, and Real Estate 3. Recruiting told us that we could change our preferences at any time before the firm places us into our respective groups sometime between the end of July and September. I've been going back and forth about which group to choose, and I really have no idea. I could literally see myself working in the Corporate M&A group just as much as I could see myself work in the Litigation group. Is there something to be said about working in my firm's number one practice group (Gen. Corporate)? It's pretty much the backbone of our firm. Regarding my long-term goals, I'm definitely keeping my options open, one of which includes the possibility of me eventually going back to Florida where I guess I could work for a firm, or maybe in-house at a bank? Any advice on choosing a practice group?

When all else fails, go with where you like the people the most. But corporate/M&A generally will be easier to transition elsewhere than finance (Especially if you're doing NYC lev fin)

Why is levfin tougher to transition out of? What advice would you have for someone currently practicing levfin who isnt sure they can make partner at their current firm?

[itbdvorm]

So at the end of my SA stint last summer, we were asked to rank our top 3 preferred practice groups. I rotated through General Corporate (M&A & Securities), Debt Finance, and Real Estate. I enjoyed all three, but still had no idea what I wanted to do. My firm is heavily driven by our M&A department, but i ended up ranking Finance 1, Corporate 2, and Real Estate 3. Recruiting told us that we could change our preferences at any time before the firm places us into our respective groups sometime between the end of July and September. I've been going back and forth about which group to choose, and I really have no idea. I could literally see myself working in the Corporate M&A group just as much as I could see myself work in the Litigation group. Is there something to be said about working in my firm's number one practice group (Gen. Corporate)? It's pretty much the backbone of our firm. Regarding my long-term goals, I'm definitely keeping my options open, one of which includes the possibility of me eventually going back to Florida where I guess I could work for a firm, or maybe in-house at a bank? Any advice on choosing a practice group?

When all else fails, go with where you like the people the most. But corporate/M&A generally will be easier to transition elsewhere than finance (Especially if you're doing NYC lev fin)

Why is levfin tougher to transition out of? What advice would you have for someone currently practicing levfin who isnt sure they can make partner at their current firm?

It's just such a specific skillset - in NYC, the lev fin work is largely commitment papers and knowing that particular market (then of course bank/bond deals afterwards). While there are of course companies who do plenty of acquisitions and have complex debt structures, it's hard to cite to work you've done there as a natural transition to a generalist role. Not impossible - just harder.

In terms of advice - first I'd try to find out whether your "not sure" is "won't" or "maybe". Second, I'd look out for in-house opportunities (banks, funds, etc.).

[ballouttacontrol]

To be a grouchy old man for ten seconds:

Please, act like adults.

Please, remember that we work in a professional environment, where we expect professionalism at the highest level.

One of my friends just shared an email a junior sent to the entire office that is indescribably moronic and juvenile.

Please tell your friends that when we partners - even the young ones - see something like this from some idiot we've never heard of before, we immediately (a) write that person off entirely and (b) get angry at a generation unfairly.

Don't be that guy. If you wouldn't send an email like the one you're about to send to the stuffiest, angriest person you know, don't send it to the whole office.

mannnn you are really leaving us hanging with this one

[stannis]

To be a grouchy old man for ten seconds:

Please, act like adults.

Please, remember that we work in a professional environment, where we expect professionalism at the highest level.

One of my friends just shared an email a junior sent to the entire office that is indescribably moronic and juvenile.

Please tell your friends that when we partners - even the young ones - see something like this from some idiot we've never heard of before, we immediately (a) write that person off entirely and (b) get angry at a generation unfairly.

Don't be that guy. If you wouldn't send an email like the one you're about to send to the stuffiest, angriest person you know, don't send it to the whole office.

mannnn you are really leaving us hanging with this one

Yeah please describe.

[LurkerTurnedMember]

How do you negotiate clerkship bonuses after you already accepted an offer from the firm (such as a 2L summer clerking for before going back)? And is trying to negotiate the bonus seen negatively such that it might make the firm consider withdrawing an offer or accepted job?

Honestly no idea. Is there reason to think firms negotiate clerkship bonuses? I thought it was a set amount.

How do you find that set amount? No firm has it on their site or any reportings. Do you think the third-party sources, like Above The Law, are safe to rely on?

[itbdvorm]

To be a grouchy old man for ten seconds:

Please, act like adults.

Please, remember that we work in a professional environment, where we expect professionalism at the highest level.

One of my friends just shared an email a junior sent to the entire office that is indescribably moronic and juvenile.

Please tell your friends that when we partners - even the young ones - see something like this from some idiot we've never heard of before, we immediately (a) write that person off entirely and (b) get angry at a generation unfairly.

Don't be that guy. If you wouldn't send an email like the one you're about to send to the stuffiest, angriest person you know, don't send it to the whole office.

mannnn you are really leaving us hanging with this one

Yeah please describe.

Really no way to describe with outing the kid, and I am not that mean. It was just something super juvenile and personal, with an unnecessary inclusion of a superhero cartoon, going to the whole office. We're entrusting you with multi-billion dollar deals - act like adults.

[itbdvorm]

How do you negotiate clerkship bonuses after you already accepted an offer from the firm (such as a 2L summer clerking for before going back)? And is trying to negotiate the bonus seen negatively such that it might make the firm consider withdrawing an offer or accepted job?

Honestly no idea. Is there reason to think firms negotiate clerkship bonuses? I thought it was a set amount.

How do you find that set amount? No firm has it on their site or any reportings. Do you think the third-party sources, like Above The Law, are safe to rely on?

Probably pretty reliable

[misterjames]

To be a grouchy old man for ten seconds:

Please, act like adults.

Please, remember that we work in a professional environment, where we expect professionalism at the highest level.

One of my friends just shared an email a junior sent to the entire office that is indescribably moronic and juvenile.

Please tell your friends that when we partners - even the young ones - see something like this from some idiot we've never heard of before, we immediately (a) write that person off entirely and (b) get angry at a generation unfairly.

Don't be that guy. If you wouldn't send an email like the one you're about to send to the stuffiest, angriest person you know, don't send it to the whole office.

mannnn you are really leaving us hanging with this one

Yeah please describe.

Really no way to describe with outing the kid, and I am not that mean. It was just something super juvenile and personal, with an unnecessary inclusion of a superhero cartoon, going to the whole office. We're entrusting you with multi-billion dollar deals - act like adults.

*cough cough* tips@abovethelaw.com