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The new numbers appear to be out, at least in part, and are on the "Quick Facts" admissions page. There was a sizable GPA jump over last year.

http://www.utexas.edu/law/depts/admissi ... facts.html

Class of 2012 numbers:

LSAT 164/167/168 (same as 2011)
GPA 3.54/3.71/3.87 (compared to 3.42/3.62/3.82 for 2011)

So a .12/.09/.05 jump in GPA. That's pretty substantial.

penni_rose wrote:We had some discussion about the electives for next semester going where a lot of people said they would probably take brief writing. I've thought about, but having discovered that brief writing is pass/fail after 1L, I'm not convinced that I want to take it for a grade next semester. Anyone else feel that way?

I feel the same way, penni_rose. But I hear that Brief Writing and Oral Advocacy is essential preparation for just about any 1L summer gig.

Neverknowsbest wrote:I feel like this has been discussed, but I was wondering anyone and suggestions of places to go watch the football games on TV, for those who foolishly did not buy tickets.

Alamo Drafthouse if the one near you plays them. It's on the movie theater screen. Tickets are free. You reserve your spot by buying a $5 food coupon online.

My writing professor keeps repeating the mantra that writing skills are necessary and even that judges have rejected applicants from UT strictly on the ground that they don't have substantial enough writing training.

Snooker wrote:My writing professor keeps repeating the mantra that writing skills are necessary and even that judges have rejected applicants from UT strictly on the ground that they don't have substantial enough writing training.

Another argument for that boring elective .

I'm not sure what to make of the clerkship comment, though. Isn't the legal writing curriculum fairly standard across law schools? And the tendency among elite law schools is to make the curriculum more liberal-artsy (fun, interesting) and less practical (i.e. gaining skills an employer would expect you to have). I mean, seriously, Harvard launched a law school course this year called "Evil" (isn't that what we're supposed to learn in practice?), and they require 1Ls to take intentional law (isn't that hype?).

I feel you. Despite the "consensus" on Brief Writing and Oral Advocacy, I'm almost certain I will take a substantive course instead. "And if I perish, I perish."

OperaAttorney wrote:I feel you. Despite the "consensus" on Brief Writing and Oral Advocacy, I'm almost certain I will take a substantive course instead. "And if I perish, I perish."

I am completely with you. I just can't make myself take that class next semester.

My writing prof also mentioned that bit about judges turning away UT students because of lack of writing skills, and that they are trying to improve the writing curriculum. Apparently we are the first class year to be taught taught research/writing in small section, and my prof said that they are planning on upping it to a 3 credit course for future class years. So they appear serious about it.

But then, UT does pretty well for clerkships for a rank 15 school....so they might be overhyping the issue.

I will probably take brief writing, but I'm going to wait and see the schedule before I make any decisions.

I think I will take brief writing. We have two whole years for electives. I want to take something fun, but four semesters is plenty of time to take something fun, and the third year is notoriously lacking in direction. I'd really like a job this summer, so brief writing it is. Suck it up for one year.

JazzOne wrote:I think I will take brief writing. We have two whole years for electives. I want to take something fun, but four semesters is plenty of time to take something fun, and the third year is notoriously lacking in direction. I'd really like a job this summer, so brief writing it is. Suck it up for one year.

Brief writing isn't going to have any effect on your chances for a 1L job. You can only take brief writing during the spring. You won't get grades for it until the summer. By then, it'll be too late to go looking for a job that summer.

Your LRW grade is important if you want to clerk for a judge. I have a friend with slightly over a 4.00, is on law review, and only has one judicial clerkship interview. He attributes it to getting a B and a B+ for LRW - all his other grades are A-'s or higher.

keayts wrote:

JazzOne wrote:I think I will take brief writing. We have two whole years for electives. I want to take something fun, but four semesters is plenty of time to take something fun, and the third year is notoriously lacking in direction. I'd really like a job this summer, so brief writing it is. Suck it up for one year.

Brief writing isn't going to have any effect on your chances for a 1L job. You can only take brief writing during the spring. You won't get grades for it until the summer. By then, it'll be too late to go looking for a job that summer.

Your LRW grade is important if you want to clerk for a judge. I have a friend with slightly over a 4.00, is on law review, and only has one judicial clerkship interview. He attributes it to getting a B and a B+ for LRW - all his other grades are A-'s or higher.

When would we apply for a 1L job? I might not have the grade for the class yet, but I can point to the fact that I am taking the class as an indication of how serious I am about my writing skills. I might even have a writing sample or two from second semester to show prospective employers.

Esc wrote:My writing prof also mentioned that bit about judges turning away UT students because of lack of writing skills, and that they are trying to improve the writing curriculum. Apparently we are the first class year to be taught taught research/writing in small section, and my prof said that they are planning on upping it to a 3 credit course for future class years. So they appear serious about it.

But then, UT does pretty well for clerkships for a rank 15 school....so they might be overhyping the issue.

I will probably take brief writing, but I'm going to wait and see the schedule before I make any decisions.

I saw on vault last year 1 negative comment about UT writing/research skills. That probably set off red flags for the whole administration. We're pretty good for clerkships as esc points out.

JazzOne wrote:When would we apply for a 1L job? I might not have the grade for the class yet, but I can point to the fact that I am taking the class as an indication of how serious I am about my writing skills. I might even have a writing sample or two from second semester to show prospective employers.

You can contact employers starting Dec 1st, but unless you have something impressive on your resume, you're not going to get any interviews until you get your grades. (Only one person I know got interviews before 1st semester grades came out, and she went to Harvard for undergrad, worked as a work coordinator for a prestigious NYC firm for a few years, and speaks 5 languages. And she grew up in Texas, which helps a lot for Texas firms.)

Most 1L interviews off of direct mails occur in early February, when grades have all come in, and there's spring OCI in mid/late-February as well. I don't think you'll have a writing sample from your advanced legal research class by that point in time, but since I didn't take the elective I can't say for certain.

I doubt employers would care that you were taking a writing elective your spring semester, since they would have no indication of how well you would do in that elective unless they were willing to project based on your 1st semester LRW grade. Interest in improving your research and writing skills is good, but my guess is that performance is a lot more important than interest.

Also, keep in mind that most UT legal research classes teach you the ALWD system of citation, while all practitioners and courts use the Bluebook system. A lot of the methodology of analysis and structure of writing is the same no matter what system you use, but you're going to have to relearn some of the citation forms for your summer job.

keayts wrote:Also, keep in mind that most UT legal research classes teach you the ALWD system of citation, while all practitioners and courts use the Bluebook system. A lot of the methodology of analysis and structure of writing is the same no matter what system you use, but you're going to have to relearn some of the citation forms for your summer job.

Thanks for the comments. I'll take them into consideration before I select my elective. However, my LR&W class uses Bluebook. I'm not sure what relevance that has, but I'm glad my professor chose Bluebook if that's the industry standard.

Query: Is it a sign of irredeemable dorkitude that I get hopelessly overjoyed whenever I see more names on the clerkship board in the atrium?

Or does it mean that I have school spirit?

Esc wrote:Query: Is it a sign of irredeemable dorkitude that I get hopelessly overjoyed whenever I see more names on the clerkship board in the atrium?

Or does it mean that I have school spirit?

I think we are happy to see our grads being employed. Lots of people are getting circuit jobs, it seems.

Esc wrote:Query: Is it a sign of irredeemable dorkitude that I get hopelessly overjoyed whenever I see more names on the clerkship board in the atrium?

Or does it mean that I have school spirit?

I think it's a combination of both.

Snooker wrote:

Esc wrote:Query: Is it a sign of irredeemable dorkitude that I get hopelessly overjoyed whenever I see more names on the clerkship board in the atrium?

Or does it mean that I have school spirit?

I think we are happy to see our grads being employed. Lots of people are getting circuit jobs, it seems.

I definitely like seeing that people are finding employment, but it's also the things Esc mentioned.

My LRW class let me choose which citation manual to use. I picked Blue Book because it was cheaper. I'm glad I did.

Esc wrote:Query: Is it a sign of irredeemable dorkitude that I get hopelessly overjoyed whenever I see more names on the clerkship board in the atrium?

Or does it mean that I have school spirit?

God knows I like to toot the school's horn when possible, but it's also neat for its own sake.

looking at the recent fresh law schedule, I notice that all of the advanced legal research classes are from 11:30 - 12:20 on some days of the week. For section 3, that means we'd have classes straight into the afternoon to 3:00 with no break for lunch. wtf?

Snooker wrote:looking at the recent fresh law schedule, I notice that all of the advanced legal research classes are from 11:30 - 12:20 on some days of the week. For section 3, that means we'd have classes straight into the afternoon to 3:00 with no break for lunch. wtf?

Lawyers don't eat lunch. Back to work!

Snooker wrote:looking at the recent fresh law schedule, I notice that all of the advanced legal research classes are from 11:30 - 12:20 on some days of the week. For section 3, that means we'd have classes straight into the afternoon to 3:00 with no break for lunch. wtf?

Your first class is at 10:30AM. I just can't feel too sorry for you.

You should feel sorry for ME! All the electives I wanted to take are during my core classes.

Esc wrote:

Snooker wrote:looking at the recent fresh law schedule, I notice that all of the advanced legal research classes are from 11:30 - 12:20 on some days of the week. For section 3, that means we'd have classes straight into the afternoon to 3:00 with no break for lunch. wtf?

Your first class is at 10:30AM. I just can't feel too sorry for you.

You should feel sorry for ME! All the electives I wanted to take are during my core classes.

Me too. I have some prior expertise in biology and bioethics in particular. I am very disappointed that I can't the Bioethics & Law class. I even mentioned that class in my PS.