oblamov and i had more or less this exact exchange via pm yesterday. its funny how the same arguments are made ad nauseum

I believe in their hierarchy of likes it falls somewhere between raping white women who ask for help busting up a chiffarobe and tipping.

But it's pretty important for white people. It's no graduate school, but it edges out oppressing black people.

Damn, I thought we cornered the market for soy. OPPRESSORS!

Обломов, я предлагаю заключить с тобой союз, ты согласен?

White people smell like onions.

#61 Croatians will sell you for goats just as soon as look at you.

wow...I thought that this thread would have died a long time ago but it just keeps going and going and going and going...Its entertaining though and keeps me from obsessively checking my status checkers

I think everyone should just come out and say what they are REALLY thinking, so long as it is in good faith and not meant solely to hurt other people. Really, i accept that perfectly honest, good people can draw conclusions that others would call absolutely, positively racist. I don't know about other people, but I would never call someone a racist for saying something that isn't politically correct. People shouldn't be afraid to say what they think is reality without being yelled at by the PC police

If you're smart enough to recognize that lots of arguments like the OP hinted at don't at all stand up to rigorous debate and logic, it becomes easier to just put the dead cat on the table and have a full-on discussion. That is just my take, however, and I don't know what everyone else's tolerance is for really uncomfortable conversations.

I watched this last night. SO fucking hilarious.

"even the authorities are minorities" LMFAOOOOOO

i think i even saw a native american...... lol

My only real concern is what the long term implications will be for minority groups. We may not be there yet, but relatively soon we will have to start rolling AA back. In the end, it really doesnt help anything if we increase minority enrollement simply by lowering the standards for them. Many minority cultures just dont place the same emphasis on academic success as whites/asians. Maybe this is a problem, maybe its not.

so "whites" and "asians" are both coherently defined, discrete "cultures" that are just more academically inclined? I'd imagine that plenty of folks in west virginia or arkansas or a sarah palin rally or asian gangs don't lend support to such an assertion. Particularly when compared to, say, immigrant blacks who are among the most viscerally academic of any group.

i agree that aa is far from a perfect or permanent solution, but it isn't mutually exclusive with making the more important long term structural reforms that are needed.

People have been hating on the Jews for thousands of years, and it's only made them stronger.

mazel tov

One thing I have to say though is that school was never pushed for me growing up. I went because it was required. Having gone through the process, graduated and now working whilee applying to law school I definitely see the value of school and will most definitely project this on my kids who will have a better life than me and get into better schools. Hows that for AA doing it's job. The effects are happening but are not always quantifiable or separable from other possible causes.


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Ein Be'ad Mah

i don't foresee it ending in our lifetimes, so no need to worry!

You're entitled to your view. I don't see any point in going round and round.

i don't know about this. certainly, the roberts supreme court is poised to really roll back racial preferences, and I think the ballot initiatives in Cali and michigan are probably a sign of things to come.

AA is already anathema to the average person, and in a democracy, I don't see how something so unpopular can sustain for long. i'd actually say it lasts for another 20 years, max.

I was mostly just amused by the fact that his 'only real concern' is quite transparently not his concern at all as evidenced by the remainder of his screed.

AA was being rolled back even as it was being rolled out. I wouldn't be surprised to see legislation banning it nationwide, but, there is a difference between banning AA and drastically reducing minority enrollment in higher education. One does not necessarily beget the other.

i agree to the extent that we're talking about elite private schools. however, haven't we already begun seeing just that at public schools in states where AA has been banned? i mean, i doubt the folks up in ann arbor and berkleley are too pleased with the new law they've got to contend with, but its not like they can just go on like nothing happened, right?

An intersting book would be someone comparing AA to reconstruction and how the two are essentially the same story at different times, i mean that in the sense that the same arguments for and against AA that are being used today were used before and during Reconstruction. Just something to ponder.

i support aa, but this is not even a remotely accurate or fair analogy. so people who are against actively giving people a leg up in admissions are making the same arguments as people who would have denied them voting rights and the most basic recognition as citizens?! i think straw man building will only undermine our position.