T14 Vs. Regional Schools Forum

[mmcguire]

I would like to practice Corporate Law. I will be taking the LSAT in July, I am currently scoring in the high 160 range, GPA 3.65, URM. I was born in raised in suburbs of Chicago and plan to practice in Chicago. What are your thoughts on T14's vs Regional (Chicago)? I plan to apply to most T14's if I don't get in one of those is it worth my time and money to attend law school? Or do you think attending a Regional Chicago school will allow me to reach my goal?

[BrainsyK]

I wouldn't count on a regional school in or near Chicago getting you biglaw--assuming that that's what you mean by corporate law. That's not just a blind T14 or bust mentality. My impression is that URMs tend to do okay in biglaw at T20s if not a bit lower, but that might only for NYC biglaw. Chicago is a much more competitive market. Also, there's a steep drop off after NU to Loyola at #77 for law schools in Chicago. It only gets worse from there. The good news is that if you attend NU, you're almost guaranteed biglaw.

[Wubbles]

I wouldn't count on a regional school in or near Chicago getting you biglaw--assuming that that's what you mean by corporate law. That's not just a blind T14 or bust mentality. My impression is that URMs tend to do okay in biglaw at T20s if not a bit lower, but that might only for NYC biglaw. Chicago is a much more competitive market. Also, there's a steep drop off after NU to Loyola at #77 for law schools in Chicago. It only gets worse from there. The good news is that if you attend NU, you're almost guaranteed biglaw.

Between Northwestern and Loyola is UIUC, Notre Dame, and arguably WashU, just so we're putting the correct facts out there. But anyways, OP if you score high 160s (and you shouldn't settle for less when applying if you are PTing that high) you should attend somewhere like Northwestern if you can. If you go anywhere below Northwestern in the Chicago market, you could wind up at a small firm or state gov work instead of practicing corporate law

[CSKLawz]

Not a URM, but I would be surprised if high 160s and a 3.65 did not give you a solid chance at NU. I know multiple non-URM candidates who got in with similar numbers a few years ago (though I guess times have changed). Personally, I wouldn’t worry about this until you have an actual score. You can’t predict what will happen on test day, and worrying about this now is just noise IMO.

[AdieuCali]

URM cycles are unpredictable, so apply broadly across the T13. Ask for fee waivers from all admissions offices. That said, you probably have a good shot at T13 w/$$ assuming your LSAT aligns with your PTs. https://mylsn.info/46tuan/

Since you’re Chi BL or bust w/o further unicorn goals, it might be a good idea to apply to NU’s ED scholarship. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... ision.html

[mmcguire]

I wouldn't count on a regional school in or near Chicago getting you biglaw--assuming that that's what you mean by corporate law. That's not just a blind T14 or bust mentality. My impression is that URMs tend to do okay in biglaw at T20s if not a bit lower, but that might only for NYC biglaw. Chicago is a much more competitive market. Also, there's a steep drop off after NU to Loyola at #77 for law schools in Chicago. It only gets worse from there. The good news is that if you attend NU, you're almost guaranteed biglaw.

I was thinking more like Norte Dame, Iowa or Washu.

[cavalier1138]

I was thinking more like Norte Dame, Iowa or Washu.

Of those three, I would only consider WashU, and only if you received a full ride (and nothing at Northwestern). Your ties should be enough to get you back to Chicago, but Iowa's biglaw placement is bad. Notre Dame's is better, but it's peaking at roughly 1/3 of the class getting a job at a large firm. WashU has been consistently placing over 40% of its class in big firms over the last few years. But compare all of that to any T13 school, all of which routinely place 60-80% of their classes at big firms.

I strongly recommend checking out https://www.lstreports.com/. Don't assume that you'll do better than median grades at any school. And don't assume that your charm/moxie is going to make the difference when looking for a job. The reason people are telling you that the T13 are the only schools you should be considering for your goals is that there is a massive drop-off in opportunities once you leave that group of schools. And if the hiring market takes a hit when you're in school, WashU and Notre Dame will probably get hit hardest.

[mmcguire]

URM cycles are unpredictable, so apply broadly across the T13. Ask for fee waivers from all admissions offices. That said, you probably have a good shot at T13 w/$$ assuming your LSAT aligns with your PTs. https://mylsn.info/46tuan/

Since you’re Chi BL or bust w/o further unicorn goals, it might be a good idea to apply to NU’s ED scholarship. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... ision.html

How do I ask for fee waivers? Email each school?

[QContinuum]

URM cycles are unpredictable, so apply broadly across the T13. Ask for fee waivers from all admissions offices. That said, you probably have a good shot at T13 w/$$ assuming your LSAT aligns with your PTs. https://mylsn.info/46tuan/

Since you’re Chi BL or bust w/o further unicorn goals, it might be a good idea to apply to NU’s ED scholarship. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... ision.html

How do I ask for fee waivers? Email each school?

After you take the LSAT, you will likely get some unsolicited fee waivers. To the extent you don't, each school will have on their website instructions for requesting a fee waiver.

Focus for now on the LSAT, worry about the fee waivers etc. after. Best wishes!

I would like to practice Corporate Law. I will be taking the LSAT in July, I am currently scoring in the high 160 range, GPA 3.65, URM. I was born in raised in suburbs of Chicago and plan to practice in Chicago. What are your thoughts on T14's vs Regional (Chicago)? I plan to apply to most T14's if I don't get in one of those is it worth my time and money to attend law school? Or do you think attending a Regional Chicago school will allow me to reach my goal?

Are there unique personal/family reasons that require you to stay in Chicago for law school? Or would you be able to attend law school elsewhere? If the latter, you should absolutely apply across the T13. As other posters have noted ITT, URM cycles are unpredictable. Attending a non-Chicago T13 would be MUCH, much better for your Chicago BigLaw goals than attending, say, Iowa or Notre Dame. (Worst case scenario with a non-Chicago T13, you land BigLaw in NYC and lateral to Chicago after a few years. Worst case scenario with Iowa/Notre Dame/etc., you strike out of BigLaw - just like the vast majority of your classmates at those schools.)

Also, even with a non-Chicago T13, you wouldn't be stuck away from Chicago for three solid years. Law school only runs August of 1L through May of 3L, so a total of two years and nine months; and in addition, you'd be able to spend your 1L summer in Chicago no matter which T13 you attend, and you'd likely land a 2L summer associateship in Chicago as well. And of course you'd be able to spend your winter holidays, spring break, etc. in Chicago if you so wish.

[mmcguire]

URM cycles are unpredictable, so apply broadly across the T13. Ask for fee waivers from all admissions offices. That said, you probably have a good shot at T13 w/$$ assuming your LSAT aligns with your PTs. https://mylsn.info/46tuan/

Since you’re Chi BL or bust w/o further unicorn goals, it might be a good idea to apply to NU’s ED scholarship. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissi ... ision.html

How do I ask for fee waivers? Email each school?

After you take the LSAT, you will likely get some unsolicited fee waivers. To the extent you don't, each school will have on their website instructions for requesting a fee waiver.

Focus for now on the LSAT, worry about the fee waivers etc. after. Best wishes!

I would like to practice Corporate Law. I will be taking the LSAT in July, I am currently scoring in the high 160 range, GPA 3.65, URM. I was born in raised in suburbs of Chicago and plan to practice in Chicago. What are your thoughts on T14's vs Regional (Chicago)? I plan to apply to most T14's if I don't get in one of those is it worth my time and money to attend law school? Or do you think attending a Regional Chicago school will allow me to reach my goal?

Are there unique personal/family reasons that require you to stay in Chicago for law school? Or would you be able to attend law school elsewhere? If the latter, you should absolutely apply across the T13. As other posters have noted ITT, URM cycles are unpredictable. Attending a non-Chicago T13 would be MUCH, much better for your Chicago BigLaw goals than attending, say, Iowa or Notre Dame. (Worst case scenario with a non-Chicago T13, you land BigLaw in NYC and lateral to Chicago after a few years. Worst case scenario with Iowa/Notre Dame/etc., you strike out of BigLaw - just like the vast majority of your classmates at those schools.)

Also, even with a non-Chicago T13, you wouldn't be stuck away from Chicago for three solid years. Law school only runs August of 1L through May of 3L, so a total of two years and nine months; and in addition, you'd be able to spend your 1L summer in Chicago no matter which T13 you attend, and you'd likely land a 2L summer associateship in Chicago as well. And of course you'd be able to spend your winter holidays, spring break, etc. in Chicago if you so wish.

Nothing particular keeping me in or near Chicago. Although might help financially at some point. Thanks for all this advice it is really helping me create my plans.

[rokiv]

I was thinking more like Norte Dame, Iowa or Washu.

Of those three, I would only consider WashU, and only if you received a full ride (and nothing at Northwestern). Your ties should be enough to get you back to Chicago, but Iowa's biglaw placement is bad. Notre Dame's is better, but it's peaking at roughly 1/3 of the class getting a job at a large firm. WashU has been consistently placing over 40% of its class in big firms over the last few years. But compare all of that to any T13 school, all of which routinely place 60-80% of their classes at big firms.

I strongly recommend checking out https://www.lstreports.com/. Don't assume that you'll do better than median grades at any school.
And don't assume that your charm/moxie is going to make the difference when looking for a job. The reason people are telling you that the T13 are the only schools you should be considering for your goals is that there is a massive drop-off in opportunities once you leave that group of schools. And if the hiring market takes a hit when you're in school, WashU and Notre Dame will probably get hit hardest.

This is a minor quibble, and I agree with 90% of the above. But, if you’re Chicago BL or bust, Notre Dame is probably a better bet than WashU. While WashU has higher BL percentages overall, this is inflated by the local St Louis/regional biglaw positions that many graduates end up in. As a current Chicago v15/BL associate, we have way more ND people than WashU.

I would also note Notre Dame regularly sends 8-10% of its class to fed clerkships and the school attracts a lot of people who gun for PI/Gov work. In my experience, above median gives you a realistic shot at Chicago BL out of ND.

All that being said, you should do your best to get into NU.