Please Help Me!! Law school advice

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mbern123

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Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby mbern123 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 2:12 pm

I seriously just want to thank everyone in advance for helping me out here.
159 LSAT 3.84 GPA
I am graduating undergrad soon and I have applied to a bunch of law schools. It is really grind time to make my decision. I have heard from 13/17 schools and have not been denied from any.
So far I have two full ride scholarships. St johns in NY and Quinnipiac in CT. St johns has a condition that I need to be in the upper 80% of my class i think this is very doable. I have also gotten a half scholarship from UCONN which is my home state. The debt would be approx. 40k and they are currently working on giving me more scholarship money after negotiations. So Uconn is doable financially as well.

I have also gotten into:
Wake forest with a 17.5K a year scholarship
UNC with 10k a year scholarship
Emory with 20k a year
NOVA with 38k per year

Waitlisted at
FORDHAM
BC
George washington

I am STILL WAITING TO HEAR FROM:
BU
NORTHEASTERN
WIlliam and Mary
George Mason



SO. Yes I know I have applied all over because I am from CT and went to undergrad in DE. I have a lot of interest in moving around and realistically just want to get the best education possible for the least amount of money. I would like to work in a city and have an interesting job. I could see myself doing BIGLAW for some time and then finding a PI Job or a mid firm job. I have studied so many law classes and LOVE IT. I love everything about the legal career and have talked to so many lawyers that I am well aware it is the path for me. I have a close friend from high school who goes to St. Johns and has excellent career opportunities. He is top of his class with a full ride and is going into NY big law. I would love to be in NYC or Boston and making a lot of money. North Carolina/Atlanta is also not a bad place to be! I could also see myself doing PI stuff or government work for 60k a year. ALSO, I could see myself doing bankruptcy, Intellectual property, criminal defense prosecution, litigation, really every path interests me. I just want to be a lawyer and Biglaw is not off the table. I just know I don't NEED to do it like some folks.

I am on LSTREPORTS everyday. Right now I like St. John's because of my buddy's opinion, their 72% employment rate, and the scholarship. They also put 18% in Big firms which isn't huge but is decent. I also like UConn because of its rank and the money Id save, and they have a 65% employment which isn't bad. I am holding out for BU and think id go there if i got in. Also I am wondering if holding out on the waitlist for any school is worth it. Not sure about northeastern, I think i will get in but heard mixed things. I could also see myself down in chapel hill and would declare residency to lower the cost.

Can anyone offer me insight or opinions on where I should go? and if you need more info just let me know.

mbern123

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby mbern123 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:00 pm

St. John's also has a HUGE alumni network that I really liked when I visited. Also, have a good bankruptcy program. UCONN had the more beautiful campus and I felt more "At home" there but not sure that should determine how i begin the rest of my life as a lawyer. haven't been to nova, wake or UNC, yet

cavalier1138

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:40 pm

There are a ton of red flags in your post, so I'll try to go through a few of the big ones:

mbern123 wrote: realistically just want to get the best education possible for the least amount of money


Law school is professional school. There is no real difference in education quality until you dip into the real scams (SJU and Quinnipiac are borderline).

mbern123 wrote:St johns has a condition that I need to be in the upper 80% of my class i think this is very doable


Most people think that until it isn't. Top 80% is about as good as a stipulation gets, but decent law schools don't attache stipulations to scholarships.

mbern123 wrote:I have a close friend from high school who goes to St. Johns and has excellent career opportunities. He is top of his class with a full ride and is going into NY big law.


If you had a close friend from high school who won big at the Vegas slots, would you assume that you were going to follow in his footsteps?

mbern123 wrote:I am on LSTREPORTS everyday.


But you're reading the reports very optimistically. The notion of going to a school that only ensures 60% of its graduating class with legal work after school is fucking terrifying. Why would you want to go to a school that gave you even a 25% chance of not being able to practice law? Employment scores of 60-70% are bad. Even with a partial scholarship, you're taking on serious debt to possibly not become a lawyer. Don't do that.

mbern123 wrote:I just want to be a lawyer


Here's the big thing. It's great that you want to be a lawyer, but your interests are all over the place. And that makes complete sense, because you're barely of drinking age. You're meant to have scattered interests at this point in your life, and now's the time to get out in the world and see what you like outside of academia. Get some work experience. Go work as a paralegal. Go be an investigator for a PD office. Go wait tables. Do literally anything besides go straight to law school, because you'll be wasting a strong undergrad GPA.

Law school isn't going anywhere. You can retake the LSAT and put yourself into a top school (or at the very least a good regional school for free). And if you want biglaw (and/or competitive PI/government career tracks) to be a real possibility, not just an outside chance, you need to do that.

albanach

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby albanach » Thu Mar 14, 2019 4:52 pm

mbern123 wrote:I seriously just want to thank everyone in advance for helping me out here.
159 LSAT 3.84 GPA
I am graduating undergrad soon and I have applied to a bunch of law schools. It is really grind time to make my decision. I have heard from 13/17 schools and have not been denied from any.
So far I have two full ride scholarships. St johns in NY and Quinnipiac in CT. St johns has a condition that I need to be in the upper 80% of my class i think this is very doable. I have also gotten a half scholarship from UCONN which is my home state. The debt would be approx. 40k and they are currently working on giving me more scholarship money after negotiations. So Uconn is doable financially as well.


Just to be clear, you need to be above the 20th percentile, not above the 80th, yes?

Have you heard from others who had scholarships at the school? Do you have any assurance that they don't section stack? I.e. they could place all the students with scholarships in a single section. Now the bottom fifth of that group of 30 face being in the bottom fifth of the class, regardless of comparative ability.

Most here would strongly advise against a scholarship that has any class rank condition. There's plenty of posters here who were surprised to find themselves under-performing in law school, and someone has to be in the bottom fifth. Remember, all your classmates are going to have pretty similar academic backgrounds, qualifications and ability.

A full ride sounds great, but it still costs money to attend law school. Let's say living costs are $20k/year, you're still taking on $60k in debt to attend a school where you have a one in three chance of not working as a lawyer upon graduation. Or a one in ten chance of not working at all. Those are not good statistics. And that doesn't take into account the opportunity cost - you could be out working for those three years, actually earning money and experience rather than accumulating debt.

Your GPA is solid and you can get into much better schools with an improved LSAT. Realistically, the smart choice is to wait it out a year and retake.

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nealric

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby nealric » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:19 pm

albanach wrote:
Your GPA is solid and you can get into much better schools with an improved LSAT. Realistically, the smart choice is to wait it out a year and retake.


Yup this. You are selling yourself short if you stick with that 159.

mbern123

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby mbern123 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:41 pm

The St. John's stipulation is top 80% so as long as I'm not in the bottom 20.

AJordan

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby AJordan » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:42 pm

nealric wrote:
albanach wrote:
Your GPA is solid and you can get into much better schools with an improved LSAT. Realistically, the smart choice is to wait it out a year and retake.


Yup this. You are selling yourself short if you stick with that 159.


Thirded plea not to waste that GPA with that LSAT score.

mbern123

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby mbern123 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 5:55 pm

Appreciate the responses. Like i said, i just needed some advice, no one has mentioned the Emory, Uconn, Wake forest, UNC, and possibility of BU or william and mary situations. Also, haven't talked about the waitlist schools. I have only taken the LSAT one time. So a retake is a possibility. But if I got into say... BU this cycle, and they gave me some scholarship like 10-15k a year and I make the decision to take out loans and just do the damn thing, you're saying even then, not worth it? St. John's scares me and QU is completely off of my list. But UConn and some of these other schools if i can afford it...- especially getting into BU? Id like to hear about those possibilities. Like I said thank you and appreciate the responses + Insight.

mbern123

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby mbern123 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:01 pm

If you guys could do your best at disregarding my score.. AND JUST if you were me, given the nature of my application process thus far, what would be my BEST option. I am just curious for my own knowledge in case i DO decide to retake. IN THIS SITUATION, given I may be in it again even after a retake,
what school would be my best option. That is why I posted. Is it a UCONN, a full ride @ SJU and just praying I graduate top of my class, is it emory or UNC? or paying nearly sticker at a school off the waitlist?

This is the answer I am yearning for. Given these schools, in this situation, what does one do if I hypothetically had to go to law school?

QContinuum

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby QContinuum » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:02 pm

As TLS consistently advises, you must assume average performance in law school. That's the metric by which you should evaluate any law school you're considering attending. You shouldn't consider what you might achieve if you were to be the top student in class, because there's no way you can assume that (and, in fact, a >99% chance you won't be the top student as a simple matter of probability).

If BigLaw's your goal, being a median student at any of the schools on your list isn't going to get you there.

mbern123 wrote:This is the answer I am yearning for. Given these schools, in this situation, what does one do if I hypothetically had to go to law school?

No one ever "has" to go to law school.

cavalier1138

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby cavalier1138 » Thu Mar 14, 2019 6:51 pm

mbern123 wrote:If you guys could do your best at disregarding my score.. AND JUST if you were me, given the nature of my application process thus far, what would be my BEST option.


That's what everyone has already been telling you. Your best option is none of the above, because you should give yourself better options.

And this:
QContinuum wrote:No one ever "has" to go to law school.

BaronBarrister

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby BaronBarrister » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:25 pm

Retake. Go T14. Don't waste that GPA - each of the unis you mentioned have excellent undergrad programs, but their law schools are not nationally renowned like Georgetown or Cornell, which are the types of schools you should shoot for. This will guarantee you a much better shot at the most desirable legal jobs like clerkships or big law associate positions.

QContinuum

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Re: Please Help Me!! Law school advice

Postby QContinuum » Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:54 pm

BaronBarrister wrote:Retake. Go T14. Don't waste that GPA - each of the unis you mentioned have excellent undergrad programs, but their law schools are not nationally renowned like Georgetown or Cornell, which are the types of schools you should shoot for. This will guarantee you a much better shot at the most desirable legal jobs like clerkships or big law associate positions.

I agree. I think a T20 with $$$ might also make sense. But OP definitely ought to retake. Pairing a 3.84 GPA with a sub-160 LSAT is borderline tragic. I am confident OP can get into the mid-160s at least.



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