U of H salary prospects Forum

[aniston958]

hi all,

i am thinking attending university of houston..not interested in big law. ok with practicing in houston, and good chance of attending for free or 30-40 k debt worst case scenario.

i want to know what kind of salary might the average student from this school make? LST reports 80 k..and as long as they make 65-70 range..id be ok with that.

also since we are at it, how accurate/realistic do you think the salary /job placement info put out by LST is?

thx

[Npret]

LST says only 66% even get long term full time jobs. I’m not sure where that 80k for the average student figure is found. Maybe link it because I must be doing something wrong.

The data used by LST is provided by schools because the ABA requires it.

Given the bimodal nature of legal salaries, I think that the 80k for an avarage student is not at all accurate in terms of assuming that’s what you will earn.

[aniston958]

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/houston/sals/

66% isn't bad..that's over half the class and i'm certainly not looking to be below half the class in terms of grades.

the link states that the average salary (50th percentile)for students entering private practices was 90k. it also shows that 49% (almost half of the class) went into private sector.

i wouldn't be surprised, since i've heard that u of h places well in houston(but not outside of it).

[aniston958]

sorry. more than half (49%) went into private practice. while about 25 % who went into private didn't report their salary, i think it is safe to assume that they made 70k, if not 80 since the public sector kids made 60 and the top half (49.5 % in private sector who chose to report salary) made 90.

i guess the main point is that top half (49%) which is not too far from half the class, reported a salary of 90k.

LST says only 66% even get long term full time jobs. I’m not sure where that 80k for the average student figure is found. Maybe link it because I must be doing something wrong.

The data used by LST is provided by schools because the ABA requires it.

Given the bimodal nature of legal salaries, I think that the 80k for an avarage student is not at all accurate in terms of assuming that’s what you will earn.

[aniston958]

also, if youre referring to what it says at the very top,it says the 60 % refers to students who were employed AND reported a salary. don't think that means that translates to 60 % employment rate, which would just be 100-non employed( 13 %)

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/houston/sals/

66% isn't bad..that's over half the class and i'm certainly not looking to be below half the class in terms of grades.

the link states that the average salary (50th percentile)for students entering private practices was 90k. it also shows that 49% (almost half of the class) went into private sector.

i wouldn't be surprised, since i've heard that u of h places well in houston(but not outside of it).

[cavalier1138]

Be careful about how you read the LST data. What it says for Houston seems slightly different than your framing.

For all employed graduates with reported income, the median salary is $75k. The graph that LST makes as to the distribution of salaries is likely not accurate, because they only have the 25/50/75 data, which isn't sufficient to tell them that salaries are evenly distributed among the 25-50th percentile, etc. What is more likely is that starting salaries for non-biglaw (but still legal) jobs in Houston tend to be in the $60-75k range.

But that data only applies to 61.5% of the graduating class (the employed group that reported their income). Based on Houston's employment data, that roughly correlates with the number of graduates employed full-time as lawyers 9 months after graduation. So while the salary numbers will be accurate, they don't account for the chunk of the class that simply cannot get jobs as attorneys.

As to what your likely salary would be after graduation: that depends entirely on what you want to do and how well you do in law school. Since the latter can't be predicted, it's best to limit your debt as much as possible (which it sounds like you're doing) if you can't reasonably guarantee employment in the legal field.

And this is the crucial part:

i'm certainly not looking to be below half the class in terms of grades.

Half the class will be. Do you think that anyone enters law school aiming to be in the bottom half? A one-third chance of not being a working lawyer after graduating from law school should make you much less sanguine about the job market.

[Npret]

also, if youre referring to what it says at the very top,it says the 60 % refers to students who were employed AND reported a salary. don't think that means that translates to 60 % employment rate, which would just be 100-non employed( 13 %)

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/houston/sals/

66% isn't bad..that's over half the class and i'm certainly not looking to be below half the class in terms of grades.

the link states that the average salary (50th percentile)for students entering private practices was 90k. it also shows that 49% (almost half of the class) went into private sector.

i wouldn't be surprised, since i've heard that u of h places well in houston(but not outside of it).

Im not following your logic here. You seem to be making up numbers.
The employment rate is broken down but the correlation to salary and class rank is what I’m missing.

[Auxilio]

As Cavalier noted, why are you so confident you would be in the top half of students?

To be blunt, this isn't a great school, so if it's the best you can get into it's not like you're some uber-genius who can walk through everything academic. The vast majority of people there will have a similar LSAT/GPA to you. So why do you think you are special? Or put another way, why do you think everyone else who would attend is worse than you?

[nealric]

hi all,

i am thinking attending university of houston..not interested in big law. ok with practicing in houston, and good chance of attending for free or 30-40 k debt worst case scenario.

i want to know what kind of salary might the average student from this school make? LST reports 80 k..and as long as they make 65-70 range..id be ok with that.

also since we are at it, how accurate/realistic do you think the salary /job placement info put out by LST is?

thx

I always hesitate to make grammar nazi comments, especially in the context of a semi-anonymous online message board, but just be warned that if you approach law school writing anything like this post, your goal of being in the top half of the class will end in bitter disappointment. It's good to make writing organized, clear, and correct sentences a habit because that's how you will need to write on law school exams.

Other posters have commented, but keep in mind the bi-modal salary distribution for starting legal salaries. The top 10% of the class making $190k can really skew the numbers upward, especially when such graduates salaries are essentially always known and reported, while graduates going to smaller firms often don't have reported salaries and therefore aren't included in the numbers. While there are certainly non biglaw jobs in the $65-70k range in Houston, be aware that there will also be $40k private practice jobs (and worse). It's doubtful that many folks taking such jobs thought they'd be accepting a $40k job before they matriculated.

As a final comment, UH is well regarded in Houston and is a backbone of the local legal market. But be aware that there is a huge range in student quality and student outcomes- in part because being the best law school in town it attracts some very high-end students who are unable to leave town for personal reasons.

[aniston958]

alright. so looking at fordham's profile on LST for instance, it says that 60% of the class reported a private sector salary. LST further states that the 25th percentile salary for these jobs is 110 k which i thought would be crazy for fordham with the way some ppl talk about it on here.

so it it safe to assume that based on this data, the majority (60%) of fordham grads make at least to 110k? maybe at least 80k?

hi all,

i am thinking attending university of houston..not interested in big law. ok with practicing in houston, and good chance of attending for free or 30-40 k debt worst case scenario.

i want to know what kind of salary might the average student from this school make? LST reports 80 k..and as long as they make 65-70 range..id be ok with that.

also since we are at it, how accurate/realistic do you think the salary /job placement info put out by LST is?

thx

I always hesitate to make grammar nazi comments, especially in the context of a semi-anonymous online message board, but just be warned that if you approach law school writing anything like this post, your goal of being in the top half of the class will end in bitter disappointment. It's good to make writing organized, clear, and correct sentences a habit because that's how you will need to write on law school exams.

Other posters have commented, but keep in mind the bi-modal salary distribution for starting legal salaries. The top 10% of the class making $190k can really skew the numbers upward, especially when such graduates salaries are essentially always known and reported, while graduates going to smaller firms often don't have reported salaries and therefore aren't included in the numbers. While there are certainly non biglaw jobs in the $65-70k range in Houston, be aware that there will also be $40k private practice jobs (and worse). It's doubtful that many folks taking such jobs thought they'd be accepting a $40k job before they matriculated.

As a final comment, UH is well regarded in Houston and is a backbone of the local legal market. But be aware that there is a huge range in student quality and student outcomes- in part because being the best law school in town it attracts some very high-end students who are unable to leave town for personal reasons.

[aniston958]

^jk at my previous comment, bc we don't know what the kids in private practice who reported a salary made if their salary was in the 0-25 percentile.

but since we know what those who reported a salary and work in private practice made if their salary was in the 25th percentile and above, is it safe to say that those ranked in the top 45% of their class and above were able to make at least 110 k? (LST says that fordham grads who worked in private practice and reported a salary made at least 100 k if that salary was in the 25th percentile or higher)

just asking to see if im interpreting this correctly. sorry..

alright. so looking at fordham's profile on LST for instance, it says that 60% of the class reported a private sector salary. LST further states that the 25th percentile salary for these jobs is 110 k which i thought would be crazy for fordham with the way some ppl talk about it on here.

so it it safe to assume that based on this data, the majority (60%) of fordham grads make at least to 110k? maybe at least 80k?

hi all,

i am thinking attending university of houston..not interested in big law. ok with practicing in houston, and good chance of attending for free or 30-40 k debt worst case scenario.

i want to know what kind of salary might the average student from this school make? LST reports 80 k..and as long as they make 65-70 range..id be ok with that.

also since we are at it, how accurate/realistic do you think the salary /job placement info put out by LST is?

thx

I always hesitate to make grammar nazi comments, especially in the context of a semi-anonymous online message board, but just be warned that if you approach law school writing anything like this post, your goal of being in the top half of the class will end in bitter disappointment. It's good to make writing organized, clear, and correct sentences a habit because that's how you will need to write on law school exams.

Other posters have commented, but keep in mind the bi-modal salary distribution for starting legal salaries. The top 10% of the class making $190k can really skew the numbers upward, especially when such graduates salaries are essentially always known and reported, while graduates going to smaller firms often don't have reported salaries and therefore aren't included in the numbers. While there are certainly non biglaw jobs in the $65-70k range in Houston, be aware that there will also be $40k private practice jobs (and worse). It's doubtful that many folks taking such jobs thought they'd be accepting a $40k job before they matriculated.

As a final comment, UH is well regarded in Houston and is a backbone of the local legal market. But be aware that there is a huge range in student quality and student outcomes- in part because being the best law school in town it attracts some very high-end students who are unable to leave town for personal reasons.

[nealric]

^jk at my previous comment, bc we don't know what the kids in private practice who reported a salary made if their salary was in the 0-25 percentile.

but since we know what those who reported a salary and work in private practice made if their salary was in the 25th percentile and above, is it safe to say that those ranked in the top 45% of their class and above were able to make at least 110 k? (LST says that fordham grads who worked in private practice and reported a salary made at least 100 k if that salary was in the 25th percentile or higher)

just asking to see if im interpreting this correctly. sorry..

alright. so looking at fordham's profile on LST for instance, it says that 60% of the class reported a private sector salary. LST further states that the 25th percentile salary for these jobs is 110 k which i thought would be crazy for fordham with the way some ppl talk about it on here.

so it it safe to assume that based on this data, the majority (60%) of fordham grads make at least to 110k? maybe at least 80k?

hi all,

i am thinking attending university of houston..not interested in big law. ok with practicing in houston, and good chance of attending for free or 30-40 k debt worst case scenario.

i want to know what kind of salary might the average student from this school make? LST reports 80 k..and as long as they make 65-70 range..id be ok with that.

also since we are at it, how accurate/realistic do you think the salary /job placement info put out by LST is?

thx

I always hesitate to make grammar nazi comments, especially in the context of a semi-anonymous online message board, but just be warned that if you approach law school writing anything like this post, your goal of being in the top half of the class will end in bitter disappointment. It's good to make writing organized, clear, and correct sentences a habit because that's how you will need to write on law school exams.

Other posters have commented, but keep in mind the bi-modal salary distribution for starting legal salaries. The top 10% of the class making $190k can really skew the numbers upward, especially when such graduates salaries are essentially always known and reported, while graduates going to smaller firms often don't have reported salaries and therefore aren't included in the numbers. While there are certainly non biglaw jobs in the $65-70k range in Houston, be aware that there will also be $40k private practice jobs (and worse). It's doubtful that many folks taking such jobs thought they'd be accepting a $40k job before they matriculated.

As a final comment, UH is well regarded in Houston and is a backbone of the local legal market. But be aware that there is a huge range in student quality and student outcomes- in part because being the best law school in town it attracts some very high-end students who are unable to leave town for personal reasons.

I'm not sure I fully understand your comment, but no, I would not conclude 40% of the class is making at least 110k. Again, starting salaries in legal practice are bi-modal. For private practice, you are likely to make $160-190k if you are in the top 10-20% or so at UH. If you do not get in the door at a large firm, you are most likely looking at government jobs in the $50-60k range or small firm jobs which could be all over the place salary-wise, but vary rarely more than $100k for a brand new graduate. The only jobs I can think of that are likely to be low 100s for a new graduate would be Big4 tax positions in NYC/DC, some patent prosecution boutiques (requires technical background and passing the patent bar), and a small handful of midlaw firms.

[Wubbles]

The only jobs I can think of that are likely to be low 100s for a new graduate would be Big4 tax positions in NYC/DC, some patent prosecution boutiques (requires technical background and passing the patent bar), and a small handful of midlaw firms.

I'd also add in that 100-120k is market rate for "big"law in Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Louisville, etc. Irrelevant to helping the OP since I don't think this at all applies to a Northeast school like Fordham or Texas school like Houston (Oklahoma might be around that figure for market? Probably still irrelvant)

[nealric]

The only jobs I can think of that are likely to be low 100s for a new graduate would be Big4 tax positions in NYC/DC, some patent prosecution boutiques (requires technical background and passing the patent bar), and a small handful of midlaw firms.

I'd also add in that 100-120k is market rate for "big"law in Columbus, Cincinnati, Indianapolis, Louisville, etc. Irrelevant to helping the OP since I don't think this at all applies to a Northeast school like Fordham or Texas school like Houston (Oklahoma might be around that figure for market? Probably still irrelvant)

I'd group Columbus, Indianapolis, or Louisville "big law" in with "midlaw." I suppose there are a small handful of national biglaw firms that have small satellite offices that pay substantially less, but we are talking about a tiny number of positions.

[cavalier1138]

I'm starting to wonder what your real question is here, OP.

It seems like you understand that biglaw is not a likely outcome anywhere outside the T13. So you know to not say that you want to work in biglaw from a school like Houston. But then you seem to be intent on establishing that non-biglaw private sector salaries are going to predictably be six figures and that most students can rely on those outcomes.

What, exactly, do you want from a law degree besides a certain income level?

[aniston958]

yes, i am aware that it isn't a likely outcome but at the same time, i honestly could not care less about biglaw, i don't even know if i would want to pursue it.

ideally i would like to do work for the senate judiciary committee or anything related to US federal government work in a legal sense. if that doesn't work, i don't mind working for a firm (big, small, medium)

I'm starting to wonder what your real question is here, OP.

It seems like you understand that biglaw is not a likely outcome anywhere outside the T13. So you know to not say that you want to work in biglaw from a school like Houston. But then you seem to be intent on establishing that non-biglaw private sector salaries are going to predictably be six figures and that most students can rely on those outcomes.

What, exactly, do you want from a law degree besides a certain income level?

[Auxilio]

yes, i am aware that it isn't a likely outcome but at the same time, i honestly could not care less about biglaw, i don't even know if i would want to pursue it.

ideally i would like to do work for the senate judiciary committee or anything related to US federal government work in a legal sense. if that doesn't work, i don't mind working for a firm (big, small, medium)

I'm starting to wonder what your real question is here, OP.

It seems like you understand that biglaw is not a likely outcome anywhere outside the T13. So you know to not say that you want to work in biglaw from a school like Houston. But then you seem to be intent on establishing that non-biglaw private sector salaries are going to predictably be six figures and that most students can rely on those outcomes.

What, exactly, do you want from a law degree besides a certain income level?

Most federal jobs are harder to get than big law.

[cavalier1138]

yes, i am aware that it isn't a likely outcome but at the same time, i honestly could not care less about biglaw, i don't even know if i would want to pursue it.

ideally i would like to do work for the senate judiciary committee or anything related to US federal government work in a legal sense. if that doesn't work, i don't mind working for a firm (big, small, medium)

I'm starting to wonder what your real question is here, OP.

It seems like you understand that biglaw is not a likely outcome anywhere outside the T13. So you know to not say that you want to work in biglaw from a school like Houston. But then you seem to be intent on establishing that non-biglaw private sector salaries are going to predictably be six figures and that most students can rely on those outcomes.

What, exactly, do you want from a law degree besides a certain income level?

Most federal jobs are harder to get than big law.

Yeah, if that's your goal, UH is 100% not a good choice. You'll be boxed out from a lot of competitive federal government opportunities before you even matriculate.

[aniston958]

DoJ hires from all kinds of schools though..and so does senate judiciary committee which are my main.

connections are important, but obviously i can still make out of non t14 schools since they hire from a variety of schools. and again, U OF h was my backup (before i changed my backup lol ) if my LSAT isn't high enough.

[cavalier1138]

DoJ hires from all kinds of schools though..and so does senate judiciary committee which are my main.

connections are important, but obviously i can still make out of non t14 schools since they hire from a variety of schools. and again, U OF h was my backup (before i changed my backup lol ) if my LSAT isn't high enough.

I think you need to take a harder look at those agencies, which are both intensely competitive. If you don't get in through the honors program (which takes a handful of graduates every year), you need to get 4-5 years experience in a big firm. And realistically, you need to get that experience at a firm that has good ties to government positions.

obviously i can still make out of non t14 schools since they hire from a variety of schools

That's far from "obvious," and you're talking about a really, really small portion of students who even get the opportunity. If this was your real goal all along, you need to be aiming for a top school.

[QContinuum]

obviously i can still make out of non t14 schools since they hire from a variety of schools

That's far from "obvious," and you're talking about a really, really small portion of students who even get the opportunity. If this was your real goal all along, you need to be aiming for a top school.

A handful will make it from UH, just as a handful of UH grads will land BigLaw. Neither outcome can be considered remotely "typical" for the average UH student.

Also, I'm not sure why you're asking us if it's so "obvious" to you.

[nicole1994]

If grades are taken into huge consideration by DOJ, you have to be at the top of your class regardless of which school you go to be considered (according to my understanding , so correct me if I'm wrong ) ..so if you qualify for DOJ from Houston (top 10%) , you would also get the big law experience

I've also seen candidates from schools like Indiana Bloomington (and many others) work for the senate judiciary committee without big law experience ..

DoJ hires from all kinds of schools though..and so does senate judiciary committee which are my main.

connections are important, but obviously i can still make out of non t14 schools since they hire from a variety of schools. and again, U OF h was my backup (before i changed my backup lol ) if my LSAT isn't high enough.

I think you need to take a harder look at those agencies, which are both intensely competitive. If you don't get in through the honors program (which takes a handful of graduates every year), you need to get 4-5 years experience in a big firm. And realistically, you need to get that experience at a firm that has good ties to government positions.

obviously i can still make out of non t14 schools since they hire from a variety of schools

That's far from "obvious," and you're talking about a really, really small portion of students who even get the opportunity. If this was your real goal all along, you need to be aiming for a top school.

[nicole1994]

Well thats because what I was asking was not my chances of getting DOJ/ Senate judiciary committee but rather salary prospects from U of H which I have figured out .

While everyone might aim for a top school, obviously that isnt an option offered to everyone has which is why I made this discusison post in the first place.

obviously i can still make out of non t14 schools since they hire from a variety of schools

That's far from "obvious," and you're talking about a really, really small portion of students who even get the opportunity. If this was your real goal all along, you need to be aiming for a top school.

A handful will make it from UH, just as a handful of UH grads will land BigLaw. Neither outcome can be considered remotely "typical" for the average UH student.

Also, I'm not sure why you're asking us if it's so "obvious" to you.

[QContinuum]

If grades are taken into huge consideration by DOJ, you have to be at the top of your class regardless of which school you go to be considered

No, that's not quite true. UH has an effective BigLaw placement rate of ~17%, meaning you'd need to be roughly in the top sixth of the class - i.e., outperform 83% of your classmates - to land BigLaw out of UH. UVA, on the other hand, has an effective BigLaw placement rate of ~79%, meaning you could be in the bottom quarter of the class (i.e., fall behind 75+% of your classmates) and still land BigLaw.

So, sure, grades are important at both schools, but grades are vastly more important at UH than UVA. More importantly, in predicting outcomes, the safest bet is to assume that you're a completely average student - i.e., at the 50th percentile, with half the class above you and half the class below you grades-wise. An outcome can only be "expected" if it is achievable from the 50th percentile. It's certainly not objectively reasonable to bank on outperforming more than 4/5th of your classmates - all of whom will have similar undergraduate GPAs and LSAT scores, and thus objectively are equally qualified for law school.

Now, as noted above ITT, BigFed is even more selective than BigLaw. But the basic logic above applies to BigFed just as it does to BigLaw.

I've also seen candidates from schools like Indiana Bloomington (and many others) work for the senate judiciary committee without big law experience ..

I've also seen candidates from T2 and even T3 law schools work in BigLaw. It doesn't make those schools good bets for someone wanting BigLaw. The T3-BigLawyer I'm acquainted with was literally the #1 student in his graduating cohort. Obviously no one should attend a T3 banking on graduating #1 in their entire year (not just their section, their entire graduating class).

which is why I made this discusison post in the first place.

As a general rule, TLS members are only permitted to have and use a single TLS account. Consider this an official warning. Please inform me either here or by PM whether you would like to maintain your nicole1994 account or your aniston958 account. The other account will be disabled. If I don't hear from you, I'll ban the aniston958 account, as it has fewer posts.

[cavalier1138]

I've also seen candidates from schools like Indiana Bloomington (and many others) work for the senate judiciary committee without big law experience ..

What was their prior experience before working for the committee?

And you do mean "work," not "intern," right?