rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle? Forum

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
User avatar
appind

Gold
Posts: 2266
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:07 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by appind » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:47 pm

carsondalywashere wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote: A lot of people in the T13 (numerically speaking) could successfully apply for a Harvard transfer. Most of those people realize that it's pretty pointless, and most of them likely never thought of transferring to begin with.

I'm not sure what your point is. Do you think that Harvard wouldn't take someone outside the top 1% at Columbia as a transfer? Because that's categorically untrue.
This

People in the top quarter in the lower t13 "successfully" transfer to Harvard
what is your source for this (that someone in lower t13 at 25% gpa in the class has solid odds of getting transfer to H)? some may have gotten lucky in that gpa range but the question in op was about strong odds and easily getting in.

the bolded comment is really a strawman, changes the question from 15/25% range to 1%. clearly top 1% would be easy in.

uncoverelearning

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2019 9:00 pm

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by uncoverelearning » Wed Feb 20, 2019 2:53 pm

Npret wrote:
uncoverelearning wrote:
Npret wrote:
uncoverelearning wrote:Thanks for the input, so I'll rule out applying next year (kinda hurts because I feel like my chances would have been really good).

To humor my being objectively stupid though, how can I maximize my chances for a successful transfer? Will a drop in my uGPA hurt me? Is being at CCN an advantage over lower-ranked schools, or does school ranking not matter like for 0L?
Why would your chances be better next year if you were a flat out reject this year?
My thinking is that there may have been some anomaly this year (For example I read about a large increase in 175+ LSAT scores, with mine being 174. And perhaps I had a lackluster interview.). Most people with my numbers have historically gotten in, and my softs are strong enough for a Hamilton. If someone can convince me that I'd most likely not get in if I reapplied, I'd be extremely grateful because it would make my decision much easier.
Top scores (175 and up) are down this year ( -22%.) https://report.lsac.org/VolumeSummaryOr ... ormat.aspx

If you want to give up a Hamilton to reapply at a school that didn’t even waitlist you, that’s your choice. I haven’t heard of anyone doing this before but it’s unlikely Columbia will accept you again.
Looks like I was wrong about the LSAT point. FWIW I got that info from here: https://abovethelaw.com/2018/04/high-ls ... cant-pool/ .

Why would it be unlikely to be re-admitted to CLS?

Also, Harvard has a reputation for preferring work experience ( https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018 ... xperience/ ) and I was KJD this cycle. Wonder if that would affect anything?

Npret

Gold
Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by Npret » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:03 pm

uncoverelearning wrote:
Npret wrote:
uncoverelearning wrote:
Npret wrote:
uncoverelearning wrote:Thanks for the input, so I'll rule out applying next year (kinda hurts because I feel like my chances would have been really good).

To humor my being objectively stupid though, how can I maximize my chances for a successful transfer? Will a drop in my uGPA hurt me? Is being at CCN an advantage over lower-ranked schools, or does school ranking not matter like for 0L?
Why would your chances be better next year if you were a flat out reject this year?
My thinking is that there may have been some anomaly this year (For example I read about a large increase in 175+ LSAT scores, with mine being 174. And perhaps I had a lackluster interview.). Most people with my numbers have historically gotten in, and my softs are strong enough for a Hamilton. If someone can convince me that I'd most likely not get in if I reapplied, I'd be extremely grateful because it would make my decision much easier.
Top scores (175 and up) are down this year ( -22%.) https://report.lsac.org/VolumeSummaryOr ... ormat.aspx

If you want to give up a Hamilton to reapply at a school that didn’t even waitlist you, that’s your choice. I haven’t heard of anyone doing this before but it’s unlikely Columbia will accept you again.
Looks like I was wrong about the LSAT point. FWIW I got that info from here: https://abovethelaw.com/2018/04/high-ls ... cant-pool/ .

Why would it be unlikely to be re-admitted to CLS?

Also, Harvard has a reputation for preferring work experience ( https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018 ... xperience/ ) and I was KJD this cycle. Wonder if that would affect anything?
Top schools don’t readmit people that already turned down their best offer. They will find someone else for that Hamilton this year and give it to someone who is likely to accept it next year.

That ATL article is from last year if you missed the date. Scores went up last year and dropped this year, exactly as the chart I linked showed.

I have no knowledge of why Harvard rejected you instead of waitlist and no idea how you’ll do next year. The point several people have made correctly is that Harvard won’t necessarily or automatically help you in DC. If you must live in DC, law school may not be your best option.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Feb 20, 2019 3:22 pm

uncoverelearning wrote: Also, Harvard has a reputation for preferring work experience ( https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2018 ... xperience/ ) and I was KJD this cycle. Wonder if that would affect anything?
Why are you bound and determined to waste a golden opportunity? You're looking at a (practically) free education at one of the best law schools in the country. What is still making you think that the mere chance at Harvard is worth $300k?
appind wrote:the bolded comment is really a strawman, changes the question from 15/25% range to 1%. clearly top 1% would be easy in.
It was hyperbole; don't be dense. The whole point is that most students at top schools aren't itching to transfer to Harvard, so the relatively large pool of people who could do so is irrelevant.

carsondalywashere

Silver
Posts: 657
Joined: Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:33 pm

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by carsondalywashere » Wed Feb 20, 2019 5:15 pm

appind wrote:
carsondalywashere wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote: A lot of people in the T13 (numerically speaking) could successfully apply for a Harvard transfer. Most of those people realize that it's pretty pointless, and most of them likely never thought of transferring to begin with.

I'm not sure what your point is. Do you think that Harvard wouldn't take someone outside the top 1% at Columbia as a transfer? Because that's categorically untrue.
This

People in the top quarter in the lower t13 "successfully" transfer to Harvard
what is your source for this (that someone in lower t13 at 25% gpa in the class has solid odds of getting transfer to H)? some may have gotten lucky in that gpa range but the question in op was about strong odds and easily getting in.

the bolded comment is really a strawman, changes the question from 15/25% range to 1%. clearly top 1% would be easy in.
Anecdotal evidence, but also didn't say "solid odds." I know of people with those stats who have transferred to Harvard is what I meant.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
appind

Gold
Posts: 2266
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:07 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by appind » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:20 am

cavalier1138 wrote: It was hyperbole; don't be dense.
don't know what you're proving. hyperbole or strawman, it doesn't answer the question and what you say deflects from the question that was asked as you have no reliable source for its answer which is fine.
carsondalywashere wrote: Anecdotal evidence, but also didn't say "solid odds." I know of people with those stats who have transferred to Harvard is what I meant.
yeah i figured that's what you meant and was confirming.

Mr.Inference

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2019 3:08 pm

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by Mr.Inference » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:53 am

is the allure of Harvard so strong that someone would turn down a full-ride at one of the top 5 law schools for mere possibility at Harvard? Is the allure that great? :|

What if you don't like the law? I know an amazing LSAT tutor who scored a 180, went to Harvard, and ended up leaving the law after 4 months. Same with presidential candidate Andrew Yang, who left after a year after attending Columbia -- and he was straddled with debt.

OP, don't do it. Not this. If you had gotten into Harvard, I think, you would still be debating whether it was really worth leaving this full-ride. Answer: It isn't. If anything, the scholarship will mean more career options, as you won't have to limit yourself to jobs that allow you to service your debt.

Just my 2 cents. :roll:

QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 3594
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by QContinuum » Thu Feb 21, 2019 12:57 am

appind wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote: It was hyperbole; don't be dense.
don't know what you're proving. hyperbole or strawman, it doesn't answer the question and what you say deflects from the question that was asked as you have no reliable source for its answer which is fine.
carsondalywashere wrote: Anecdotal evidence, but also didn't say "solid odds." I know of people with those stats who have transferred to Harvard is what I meant.
yeah i figured that's what you meant and was confirming.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. You initially appeared in this thread in response to the post I reproduce I below:
QContinuum wrote:I think it's difficult to say for sure, because so very few people ever apply to transfer from CLS to HLS that there's little to no data on what GPA/percentile is required to be accepted. Top quarter is probably a reasonable assumption. It might just as easily be top third, or top fifth, or top 15%, or even top 10%. We can probably assume median or below wouldn't be accepted. But in any case it just simply doesn't make sense. If you're top quarter at Columbia (or top third, fifth, 15%, 10%, whatever), you're almost certainly better served by staying at Columbia and deepening your existing connections there than transferring to Harvard and starting all over from ground zero with the professors and your new classmates. There are no doors that are closed to high-GPA Columbia students. Much of the initial edge of Harvard vs. CCN - (somewhat) greater downside protection in case of mediocre/bad law school grades - is obviated once we limit ourselves to only looking at top-performing CCN students.
So let's assume, arguendo, that you're right that even top 10% at CCN won't get you into Harvard as a transfer. Let's say it's top 5%, or top [insert-your-preferred-single-digit-number]%. That strengthens my overall point. If your grades are top 10% or better at CCN, there is nothing you could get from Harvard that you couldn't also get from CCN, whether it's D.C. BigLaw or clerkships or whatever. You'd actually be better served staying at CCN, where you already have relationships with your peers and (presumably) already have solid relationships with your 1L professors.

User avatar
appind

Gold
Posts: 2266
Joined: Mon Nov 12, 2012 3:07 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by appind » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:13 am

it wasn't disagreeing with the overall point. the question in my post was to know the source and get assumptions correct.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


QContinuum

Moderator
Posts: 3594
Joined: Mon Aug 07, 2017 9:52 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by QContinuum » Thu Feb 21, 2019 1:18 am

appind wrote:it wasn't disagreeing with the overall point. the question in my post was to know the source and get assumptions correct.
Okay, thanks. I'm still not sure why you're so convinced that one must be better than top 10% at CCN to transfer into Harvard - when there is zero evidence to support such a view, and in fact the limited data we have indicates that people get in with grades outside the top 10% - but w/e.

PanjandrumOfReason

New
Posts: 31
Joined: Fri Aug 18, 2017 3:35 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by PanjandrumOfReason » Thu Feb 21, 2019 4:19 am

nixy wrote:
appind wrote:
QContinuum wrote: I think it's difficult to say for sure, because so very few people ever apply to transfer from CLS to HLS that there's little to no data on what GPA/percentile is required to be accepted. Top quarter is probably a reasonable assumption. It might just as easily be top third, or top fifth, or top 15%, or even top 10%. We can probably assume median or below wouldn't be accepted. But in any case it just simply doesn't make sense. If you're top quarter at Columbia (or top third, fifth, 15%, 10%, whatever), you're almost certainly better served by staying at Columbia and deepening your existing connections there than transferring to Harvard and starting all over from ground zero with the professors and your new classmates. There are no doors that are closed to high-GPA Columbia students. Much of the initial edge of Harvard vs. CCN - (somewhat) greater downside protection in case of mediocre/bad law school grades - is obviated once we limit ourselves to only looking at top-performing CCN students.
even if you limit it to only 10-15%, that's 40-60, which is a lot of people to have a strong shot of getting into H if they wanted as far as the question of being able to get transfer to H is concerned (that transfer may not make sense for them notwithstanding).
They do each have a strong shot of getting into H if they wanted. Certainly H wouldn't accept all 40-60, but all 40-60 aren't going to apply. Saying someone out of that 40-60 has a strong chance isn't the same as saying that all of them would get in.
I feel the appind's argument and nixy's response would make a good LSAT question, with the correct answer choice being nixy's final sentence. :)

Also, isn't Stanford's Knight Hennessy scholarship considered a better outcome than Chicago's Rubenstein scholarship?

The Lsat Airbender

Gold
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:01 am

Yeah, people often forget about the KH program because you apply for it in a different way than law-school-specific merit aid and also because it’s so new. It’s a similar financial deal to the Ruby at a slightly more prestigious law school and comes with similar “attention from the faculty” bells and whistles attached.

I don’t think you have to be a rabid Chicago homer to say they’re practically tied for first but personally I’d take free Stanford without thinking too hard about it.

Necho2

Bronze
Posts: 275
Joined: Mon Mar 09, 2015 11:28 pm

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by Necho2 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 10:06 am

PanjandrumOfReason wrote:
I feel the appind's argument and nixy's response would make a good LSAT question, with the correct answer choice being nixy's final sentence. :)

Also, isn't Stanford's Knight Hennessy scholarship considered a better outcome than Chicago's Rubenstein scholarship?
Holy shit I wasn't really familiar with KH's details, do they really get like a 41k stipend?! I suppose the only other real distinction (beyond Stanford being a slightly higher ranked school) is that the Ruby's a bit more predictable since it's 20 a year fixed rather than 100 split between all grad programs. Does anyone know what fraction are generally given to JD students?

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Lxwind

New
Posts: 97
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 11:30 pm

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by Lxwind » Thu Feb 21, 2019 5:45 pm

Npret wrote:
Lxwind wrote:
Npret wrote:
uncoverelearning wrote:
Npret wrote:
uncoverelearning wrote:Thanks for the input, so I'll rule out applying next year (kinda hurts because I feel like my chances would have been really good).

To humor my being objectively stupid though, how can I maximize my chances for a successful transfer? Will a drop in my uGPA hurt me? Is being at CCN an advantage over lower-ranked schools, or does school ranking not matter like for 0L?
Why would your chances be better next year if you were a flat out reject this year?
My thinking is that there may have been some anomaly this year (For example I read about a large increase in 175+ LSAT scores, with mine being 174. And perhaps I had a lackluster interview.). Most people with my numbers have historically gotten in, and my softs are strong enough for a Hamilton. If someone can convince me that I'd most likely not get in if I reapplied, I'd be extremely grateful because it would make my decision much easier.
Top scores (175 and up) are down this year ( -22%.) https://report.lsac.org/VolumeSummaryOr ... ormat.aspx

If you want to give up a Hamilton to reapply at a school that didn’t even waitlist you, that’s your choice. I haven’t heard of anyone doing this before but it’s unlikely Columbia will accept you again.
Yet the report led to by the link shows it's up 59.5%...?
No it doesn’t. Click on US LSAT scores and read the chart.
If that’s too difficult check my go to admissions source on data -Spivey - they have a blog post about it. They even have an intern updating data weekly or so as LSAC releases it. I have no clue where you could see the number 59.5%.

https://blog.spiveyconsulting.com/halfway/
I got the number here: https://www.lsac.org/sites/default/file ... 8-2018.pdf

It's LSAC's 2018-2019 report so I thought it would be up-to-date...it's actually great news for me that it went down :)

Npret

Gold
Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by Npret » Thu Feb 21, 2019 6:50 pm

^ That report is for this current school year 2018-2019.

jsnow212

Bronze
Posts: 112
Joined: Sat Jan 19, 2019 11:36 am

Re: rejected at Harvard: try to transfer or reapply next cycle?

Post by jsnow212 » Thu Feb 21, 2019 9:03 pm

Dcc617 wrote:Take the Hamilton and run? Whatever marginal benefit for DC is way outweighed by $150K+.
The difference now is $240kish all-in debt financed these days between the Hamilton and Harvard @ Sticker. Yes...it's gotten that bad.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Post Reply

Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”