Are countless PT's really the way to score high? Forum

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mbeattheheat

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Are countless PT's really the way to score high?

Post by mbeattheheat » Mon Dec 17, 2018 2:35 pm

I've been studying for quite a while now and have never spent countless hours on PT's. I think over the past 6 months, I've only taken about 10 full, timed PT's. I know most high scorers say to take as many PT's as you can, but I'm scared that I might be wasting my time practicing the wrong concepts. If I can't get a 180 untimed, will it really benefit me to take more timed PT's?

I keep saying that a golfer can practice his swing 100 times, but if he wasn't doing his swing correctly to begin with, those 100 practice swings won't make him any better.

THOUGHTS?!

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cavalier1138

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Re: Are countless PT's really the way to score high?

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon Dec 17, 2018 4:37 pm

Focused study is way more important than repeatedly taking PTs. And taking full PTs untimed is pretty much useless. Check out the LSAT Prep forum for resources.

QContinuum

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Re: Are countless PT's really the way to score high?

Post by QContinuum » Mon Dec 17, 2018 5:48 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:Focused study is way more important than repeatedly taking PTs. And taking full PTs untimed is pretty much useless. Check out the LSAT Prep forum for resources.
I second this. Focused study aimed at improving accuracy on different kinds of questions is way, way, way more helpful than brute-force PTing. Brute-force PTing is the final step, once everything else is set and the only remaining obstacles are speed and/or stamina.

Despite the conventional wisdom, I don't even think everyone needs or would benefit from brute-force PTing. I didn't do a single whole PT ever (though I certainly did timed sections, many of them!) because I knew I wouldn't have any stamina issues on test day. I didn't see the point of putting myself through the misery of doing entire PTs in one go.

HopefulSplitter0000

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Re: Are countless PT's really the way to score high?

Post by HopefulSplitter0000 » Fri Jan 04, 2019 4:37 am

QContinuum wrote:Despite the conventional wisdom, I don't even think everyone needs or would benefit from brute-force PTing. I didn't do a single whole PT ever (though I certainly did timed sections, many of them!) because I knew I wouldn't have any stamina issues on test day. I didn't see the point of putting myself through the misery of doing entire PTs in one go.
How did you score? I've been taking practice tests in exactly this manner, except I only allot 30 minutes per section to further reduce the possibility of running out of time.

I took the LSAT once, but I cancelled afterwards because I was super-confused by one logic game and basically guessed on the questions. I've been working on logic games since then, but my practice test approach is pretty much identical because timing and stamina weren't issues on my actual test day.

QContinuum

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Re: Are countless PT's really the way to score high?

Post by QContinuum » Fri Jan 04, 2019 1:32 pm

enz2103 wrote:
QContinuum wrote:Despite the conventional wisdom, I don't even think everyone needs or would benefit from brute-force PTing. I didn't do a single whole PT ever (though I certainly did timed sections, many of them!) because I knew I wouldn't have any stamina issues on test day. I didn't see the point of putting myself through the misery of doing entire PTs in one go.
How did you score? I've been taking practice tests in exactly this manner, except I only allot 30 minutes per section to further reduce the possibility of running out of time.

I took the LSAT once, but I cancelled afterwards because I was super-confused by one logic game and basically guessed on the questions. I've been working on logic games since then, but my practice test approach is pretty much identical because timing and stamina weren't issues on my actual test day.
I scored at or above every T13's 75%.

I'm not necessarily recommending that anyone follow my "no-entire-PT-drilling" path, just that entire PT drilling isn't a mandatory prerequisite to doing well on the LSAT.

How are your PT section scores looking? I found my timed PT section scores were very predictive of how I actually did.

Also, how are you doing in the non-LG sections? On the actual test there was one logic game I just could not crack; I was forced to basically guess blindly on 4 out of the 5 questions associated with that game. Missing a single logic game isn't necessarily the end of the world if you do great otherwise.

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LSATWiz.com

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Re: Are countless PT's really the way to score high?

Post by LSATWiz.com » Fri Jan 04, 2019 5:56 pm

Absolutely not the way to score high. The purpose of PT's at the beginning is to track your progress.

You want to learn each LR question type and LG game type individually. I don't advocate stressing too much about RC at first, because it's harder to practice individual question types and many of the question types are similar to LR question types. Even on LR, you should have some kind of methodology behind when to study which question types. I always teach students to be 100% accurate at main point questions, even the most difficult ones before moving onto other question types that test argumentative structure (role of statements and method of argument questions and only then do I tackle assumptions). I do also advocate throwing in full RC sections from older tests here and there as well.

Countless PT's or more specifically 4-5 prep tests a week should only happen after you're scoring 90% plus on every game and individual question type. I'd generally reserve 60-on for full tests, break up tests 1-49 for the individual question types (in fact, there are many books available that do this) and use tests 50-59 as you see fit (either for practice sections or as full tests if you have enough time). Personally, I generally assign question type homework from PT's 1-49, use 50-59 to teach individual question types and assign 60-onward as full tests.

HopefulSplitter0000

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Re: Are countless PT's really the way to score high?

Post by HopefulSplitter0000 » Sun Jan 06, 2019 3:11 am

QContinuum wrote:I scored at or above every T13's 75%.

I'm not necessarily recommending that anyone follow my "no-entire-PT-drilling" path, just that entire PT drilling isn't a mandatory prerequisite to doing well on the LSAT.

How are your PT section scores looking? I found my timed PT section scores were very predictive of how I actually did.

Also, how are you doing in the non-LG sections? On the actual test there was one logic game I just could not crack; I was forced to basically guess blindly on 4 out of the 5 questions associated with that game. Missing a single logic game isn't necessarily the end of the world if you do great otherwise.
I like how you put a fundamental concept from the logical reasoning section in the first sentence of your response. I appreciate that haha.

As for my PTs:
Logical Reasoning: usually miss 0-2 questions per section (in recent PTs, these sections have become increasingly easy)
Logic Games: usually miss 2-3 questions (every so often, a single game will slaughter me)
Reading: usually miss 2-3 questions (sometimes, but rarely, I'll miss 4-5 if a single section is draining my focus)

When I initially began, before reading the Powerscore Bibles, I was scoring in the 163-168 range. Thus, I have 4 exams marked with those scores. After reading the books, my other exams have all been between 171-174, with most scores being 172/173 (recently, most scores have been 173/174). I also had four flukes (177, 178, 179, 179).

I have taken about 30 examinations so far. Only three have been taken under actual testing conditions, and the scores were pretty much identical to the exams I took using individual timed sections. That's why I ultimately decided against drilling PTs.

My ultimate goal is 10 full-time tests, and 70 tests completed through individualized sections/dual sections before the exam in June.

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