delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out? Forum

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nicole1994

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delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 4:29 pm

Hi all,
So i have an interesting dilemma/situation here.

I transferred from community college to ivy league and now finally at top public university(hated ivy i was at) . while i am 99% done with my degree, i am delaying graduation for two more years to raise my gpa because i feel that with 100% conviction my record is not indicative of my academic abilities, and if i can do my best to show them that and avoid the consequences of not attending then why not as there is nothing to lose.

during my first two years of college, i obtained nothing less than 3.85. even at my worst at the university i am currently in, i was 3.67 and that was due to depression...when i took tests while not depressed the lowest i have ever scored was an a minus and that was in my hardest classes. i only say this to show that i know what im talking about.

however, i felt that my depression never really went away, got worse so my gpa suffered tremendously as a result. i am doing what i need to do to get it under control now(had a 3.86 this semester) and intend to delay graduation to raise it up.


1) my parents are helping me pay for this. .we aren't rich but i know i would rather spend money that will help me get into good law school than spend that money at compromised law school later on. either way, the money is there for me to spend so id spend it now rather than later

2) if i continue my trend, i have verified with the school that i can raise my gpa from 3.3 to 3.6-3.67 (there is a tool available online which i can do this)


3) after graduation, i will have accumulated like 200 credits total and will have graduated with my bachelor's in 8 yrs..yeah it


4) while i know it sounds crazy, i don't think it is given that i believe it is an investment that can only help and not hurt me. i know i could study for lsat, but i plan on doing that in combination WITH, as opposed to instead of this plan that i am doing. what it boils down to is that id much rather apply to a t14 with a 3.6-3.65 than the 3.5 or even 3.55 that i would have if i were to graduate earlier. I just want to give it my best shot because it is my only shot.

5) i know it sounds like a lot, but i feel like all i would need to worry about is, if i apply to t14 with 3.6/3.65, will the credits i accumulated and the years it took me to graduate count against me if i show a positive trend of consistent 3.8 and score in their 75th percentile or higher LSAT? this is my question.

6) thank you so much for reading if you did.

Npret

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by Npret » Wed Dec 12, 2018 5:46 pm

I’m not sure I understand your question.

What is your LSAC calculated GPA?

Your idea is you will take 8 years (and 2 years more than necessary) to get an undergrad degree, solely to raise your GPA for law school applications? The reason you want to raise your GPA is so you can get into a T13?

You haven’t taken the LSAT yet?

QContinuum

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by QContinuum » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:18 pm

Npret wrote:I’m not sure I understand your question.

What is your LSAC calculated GPA?

Your idea is you will take 8 years (and 2 years more than necessary) to get an undergrad degree, solely to raise your GPA for law school applications? The reason you want to raise your GPA is so you can get into a T13?

You haven’t taken the LSAT yet?
It sounds like OP's current GPA is 3.3, though I'm not sure if that's just their overall GPA at their current school, or whether it's their cumulative undergraduate GPA to date, including their community college grades. If the 3.3 doesn't include the community college grades, and those grades are better, then OP's LSAC GPA (which is the only GPA that matters for law school admissions purposes) will be higher than 3.3.

In any case, OP's plan to delay graduating by 2 years just to raise their GPA seems incredibly inefficient. Further, taking 8 years to finish a Bachelor's degree would likely raise a yellow flag in adcoms' eyes, as it might cause them to wonder whether OP will be able to finish law school on time. At this point, OP should finish their Bachelor's ASAP. It's entirely possible to get into a T13 with a 3.3 as a "splitter" if one's LSAT is high enough. OP would be far better served spending their time/effort on maximizing their LSAT than on spending another two years in college trying to boost their GPA.

Here's some data on a hypothetical applicant with a 3.3/170:
Image
Such an applicant would have a strong chance of getting into Michigan and UVA, and decent odds of getting into at least one of Penn, Duke, and NW.

Here's a hypothetical applicant with a 3.3/173:
Image
This applicant would have decent chances at Columbia and down (though Berkeley/Duke/Cornell apparently don't look kindly on low GPAs).

So basically OP needs to get a 170+. They do not need to spend two more years in college.

Npret

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by Npret » Wed Dec 12, 2018 6:26 pm

QContinuum wrote:
Npret wrote:I’m not sure I understand your question.

What is your LSAC calculated GPA?

Your idea is you will take 8 years (and 2 years more than necessary) to get an undergrad degree, solely to raise your GPA for law school applications? The reason you want to raise your GPA is so you can get into a T13?

You haven’t taken the LSAT yet?
It sounds like OP's current GPA is 3.3, though I'm not sure if that's just their overall GPA at their current school, or whether it's their cumulative undergraduate GPA to date, including their community college grades. If the 3.3 doesn't include the community college grades, and those grades are better, then OP's LSAC GPA (which is the only GPA that matters for law school admissions purposes) will be higher than 3.3.

In any case, OP's plan to delay graduating by 2 years just to raise their GPA seems incredibly inefficient. Further, taking 8 years to finish a Bachelor's degree would likely raise a yellow flag in adcoms' eyes, as it might cause them to wonder whether OP will be able to finish law school on time. At this point, OP should finish their Bachelor's ASAP. It's entirely possible to get into a T13 with a 3.3 as a "splitter" if one's LSAT is high enough. OP would be far better served spending their time/effort on maximizing their LSAT than on spending another two years in college trying to boost their GPA.
Thanks for clarifying.
No, OP, don’t spend more time in undergrad just to increase your GPA.
Study for the LSAT and do well.
This is an inefficient plan and it will certainly not fool any law school admission committees. If anything, you would be better off graduating, studying for the LSAT and working for a couple of years.

k5220

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by k5220 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 7:48 pm

I don't think it's a bad plan to delay graduation to raise your GPA.

My situation was not as extreme as yours, but I took 5 years to graduate from a state school (competing nationally in debate, double majoring, working, and watching after my brother in elementary school). In part I took the fifth year because it would let me turn an unauthorized withdrawal into an authorized withdrawal (from an F to a grade that didn't count in LSAC), and raising my GPA from a 3.5 something to a 3.7 had really significant impacts for where I could get in (and get scholarships).

What most schools are going to care about most is your LSAC reported GPA. That's because that's what they have to report to USNWR and what affects their rankings. On the very margins, yes, they are going to think it's not great that you took 8 years to graduate and they might question your ability to handle law school (so try to compile proof that you are awesome at school - perfect grades, strong recommendations, writing experience even). But the truth is that the margins aren't that important. You're going to be screened based on your numbers, and you will not even get in the door if your numbers are too low.

Big schools (most schools besides Yale and Stanford, really) are just a numbers game, and if your numbers are good enough (i.e. above median to substantially above median), you have a great shot.

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nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 9:56 pm

Npret wrote:I’m not sure I understand your question.

What is your LSAC calculated GPA?

Your idea is you will take 8 years (and 2 years more than necessary) to get an undergrad degree, solely to raise your GPA for law school applications? The reason you want to raise your GPA is so you can get into a T13?

You haven’t taken the LSAT yet?
sorry..my question is this:

if i get my gpa to 3.66(i guess 3.6 at the worst) ..to what extent will having acquired 200 credits and 8 yrs to do so hold me back from my admission if i score 75th percentile LSAT?

no i have not taken LSAT..as i don't think lsat score should hold me back from getting highest gpa i can get. honeslty i love school so i dont mind staying longer as opposed to getting a normal job after graduation which i can get at any time. i want to raise my gpa to put my best foot forward and i love my classes here

nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:14 pm

Hi all,

thank you for reading. to clarify some questions/comments made earlier:

1)correct..i have not taken LSAT. however, I am not too sure that it matters because I want to put my BEST foot forward. not just ANY FOOT that will get me in ..l just think if feels better knowing u did everything u could have done

2) I took two years off during comm college and bachelors..so it would have taken me 6 from that point. but 8 since high school graduation

3) i don't think that just bc i would have a chance if i were to graduate now makes this inefficient. 3.6 +/170ish will yield much stronger chances than 3.3 same lsat score. to me it isnt wasting time bc i actually love my courses and the working word and law school will always be there.which brings me to my next point..me personally I don't care how long it will take personally take me given that it isnt that much longer from now..i can stick it out.

4) I just want to know if me taking this long would harm my chances of admissions if i were to raise my gpa? to what extent do you think they would care given how everyone talks about how law school is numbers game etc and with good letters of rec(two of my profs who love me and said I ask really interesting questions etc offered) and a top lsat( I have always been a hard worker..enjoy studying for 6-8 hrs a day) . sorry that i didnt make it clear enough that this was my question earlier.

5) im thinking abt this in opportunity costs. if I graduate early, my chances are: get a job after graduation(I can do that even if I were to graduate later) or apply with 3.3 . why would I apply with 3.3 when I can apply with 3.6 , especially given that im naturally capable of making 3.85 without difficulty..so I want my record to reflect that.

thank yall so much again

QContinuum

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by QContinuum » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:34 pm

k5220 wrote:I don't think it's a bad plan to delay graduation to raise your GPA.

My situation was not as extreme as yours, but I took 5 years to graduate from a state school (competing nationally in debate, double majoring, working, and watching after my brother in elementary school). In part I took the fifth year because it would let me turn an unauthorized withdrawal into an authorized withdrawal (from an F to a grade that didn't count in LSAC), and raising my GPA from a 3.5 something to a 3.7 had really significant impacts for where I could get in (and get scholarships).
I don't think your experience is quite comparable to OP's, for three reasons.

Firstly, 5 years to graduate isn't unusual. College typically takes 4 years, and many people take an extra semester or two. But 8 years - at three separate colleges - would be unusual enough to make adcoms take note.

Secondly, you had a good reason for the extra time: The removal of an F from your LSAC GPA. You were guaranteed to be able to expunge the F, so you were assured of significant gain. OP, however, currently has a cumulative GPA of 3.3, and at their current school has had semester GPAs as low as 3.67. OP posits the hypothetical of raising their GPA to a 3.6, but I'm not sure that's realistic. The cumulative GPA of 3.3 was achieved over 6 years of college. To budge that number up to a 3.6 by adding 2 more years of grades, OP would have to pretty much turn in 4.0 semesters for the next two years - and I'm not even sure that would be enough to bring the overall GPA up to 3.6 (which is almost halfway between 3.3 and 4.0, yet in the straight-4.0 hypothetical, we'd have 12 semesters of 3.3 and only 4 semesters of 4.0). If, instead, OP turns in semester GPAs averaging in the 3.6-3.7 range, OP's LSAC GPA isn't going to hit 3.6 after two more years.

Thirdly, even if OP gets their GPA up to 3.6... that's still below the T13s' 25%. Cornell's 25% GPA is 3.68. So I'm really skeptical of the returns for OP. You were in a different position, as going from 3.5 to 3.7 moved you from <25% to >25%, GPA-wise, making you a less extreme splitter.
k5220 wrote:On the very margins, yes, they are going to think it's not great that you took 8 years to graduate and they might question your ability to handle law school (so try to compile proof that you are awesome at school - perfect grades, strong recommendations, writing experience even). But the truth is that the margins aren't that important. You're going to be screened based on your numbers, and you will not even get in the door if your numbers are too low.
The margins aren't important for the vast majority of students, because the vast majority of students have constructively identical softs. But margins will start mattering if you differ substantially. This is where killer softs might get someone into Yale despite a low GPA and a low LSAT. Or where someone might underperform their numbers because there's a yellow/red flag in their app. Again, most students never notice this, because very few applicants have killer softs or yellow/red flags. But that it doesn't impact most students doesn't mean the margins aren't important.

nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Wed Dec 12, 2018 10:37 pm

also I realize how you discussed the possibility of obtaining a high lsat score+3.3

but I don't feel comfortable relying on that info..its based on a small pool of applicants so I feel that going off of the schools' 25th percentile is much more legitimate and comfortable..mich and gtown have 25th in like 3.5 range , which is why id prefer to stay longer to get it to a 3.6 and even a 3.65 which is possible for me.

im just curious to see if they will reject me based on how long it took.

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nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:55 am

QContinuum wrote:
k5220 wrote:I don't think it's a bad plan to delay graduation to raise your GPA.

My situation was not as extreme as yours, but I took 5 years to graduate from a state school (competing nationally in debate, double majoring, working, and watching after my brother in elementary school). In part I took the fifth year because it would let me turn an unauthorized withdrawal into an authorized withdrawal (from an F to a grade that didn't count in LSAC), and raising my GPA from a 3.5 something to a 3.7 had really significant impacts for where I could get in (and get scholarships).
I don't think your experience is quite comparable to OP's, for three reasons.

Firstly, 5 years to graduate isn't unusual. College typically takes 4 years, and many people take an extra semester or two. But 8 years - at three separate colleges - would be unusual enough to make adcoms take note.

Secondly, you had a good reason for the extra time: The removal of an F from your LSAC GPA. You were guaranteed to be able to expunge the F, so you were assured of significant gain. OP, however, currently has a cumulative GPA of 3.3, and at their current school has had semester GPAs as low as 3.67. OP posits the hypothetical of raising their GPA to a 3.6, but I'm not sure that's realistic. The cumulative GPA of 3.3 was achieved over 6 years of college. To budge that number up to a 3.6 by adding 2 more years of grades, OP would have to pretty much turn in 4.0 semesters for the next two years - and I'm not even sure that would be enough to bring the overall GPA up to 3.6 (which is almost halfway between 3.3 and 4.0, yet in the straight-4.0 hypothetical, we'd have 12 semesters of 3.3 and only 4 semesters of 4.0). If, instead, OP turns in semester GPAs averaging in the 3.6-3.7 range, OP's LSAC GPA isn't going to hit 3.6 after two more years.

Thirdly, even if OP gets their GPA up to 3.6... that's still below the T13s' 25%. Cornell's 25% GPA is 3.68. So I'm really skeptical of the returns for OP. You were in a different position, as going from 3.5 to 3.7 moved you from <25% to >25%, GPA-wise, making you a less extreme splitter.
k5220 wrote:On the very margins, yes, they are going to think it's not great that you took 8 years to graduate and they might question your ability to handle law school (so try to compile proof that you are awesome at school - perfect grades, strong recommendations, writing experience even). But the truth is that the margins aren't that important. You're going to be screened based on your numbers, and you will not even get in the door if your numbers are too low.
The margins aren't important for the vast majority of students, because the vast majority of students have constructively identical softs. But margins will start mattering if you differ substantially. This is where killer softs might get someone into Yale despite a low GPA and a low LSAT. Or where someone might underperform their numbers because there's a yellow/red flag in their app. Again, most students never notice this, because very few applicants have killer softs or yellow/red flags. But that it doesn't impact most students doesn't mean the margins aren't important.

@moderator :my gpa was 3.67 when I was at one of yhr worst times of my life.when I was at one of the best times and perfectly healthy it was 3.85 at the minimum as I said earlier. Plz stop taking into account my ability to pull this off as a result..and also bc if I'll know if it doesn't work fast enough to pull out of it.

Alll I'm asking is how bad is it gonna look. I pulled 3.85 this semester which is something u did not take into account ..so if I do that I'll get 3.62 if I delay . and I'm ok with ut austin georgetown michigan who have 25th percentile below that .

Thanks

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cavalier1138

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by cavalier1138 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:55 am

nicole1994 wrote:im just curious to see if they will reject me based on how long it took.
I don't think they'll reject you out of hand, but this is a really odd situation. You might want to look to a professional service and get some input from people who actually worked in admissions.

nixy

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nixy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 7:34 am

To be clear, having taken 8 years since high school won’t be the same as having spent all 8 of those years in school. You mention having taken 2 years off during this time, so it’s not like you’ll have been in school quite as long as I think people initially understood. (I think this also addresses whether it’s even possible to increase your GPA a little.)

You will probably need to explain taking time off in your applications more than the total amount of time you took. Lots of people take longer than 4 years and it’s not really an issue, especially if you have good numbers.

That said, it doesn’t make a lot of sense to me for you to spend the money for another 2 years of school for a relatively small shift in GPA that will still be low for the T14. Work, make money, and kill the LSAT (this whole plan is moot without a killer LSAT anyway).

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by Npret » Thu Dec 13, 2018 8:03 am

1.OP you are assuming a high LSAT score. I feel you have no evidence that you can achieve this score. If your LSAT isn’t high enough, this plan is a waste of time and money.

2. You will have 200 credits at graduation. This is not the same as going on and off for 8 years. You will have about 80 credits more than you need. Law school admins will note this and wonder why you went down this path.

3. You seem fixed on your GPA, but again, I’m asking you what your LSAC GPA is/will be. It’s not always as students expect.

4. You don’t seem to understand our explanations as to why this is a bad plan. Re read what people have written.
Short version:
a. Schools will question this
b. Unrealistic expectation of 2 years of perfect grades
c. Even if successful, GPA is still low
d. You’re wasting your time on pointless undergrad instead of moving ahead with your life just to improve your GPA
e. Assuming a high LSAT without taking the test. (This is a huge one and many people make this error.) Are you a good standardized test taker? Can you think well under pressure?

5. If you still won’t listen, why did you ask our advice? Find others to advise you. I find it difficult to believe anyone thinks this is a good plan for your life. Professional admission counselors can help you.

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by QContinuum » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:33 pm

nicole1994 wrote:@moderator :my gpa was 3.67 when I was at one of yhr worst times of my life.when I was at one of the best times and perfectly healthy it was 3.85 at the minimum as I said earlier. Plz stop taking into account my ability to pull this off as a result..and also bc if I'll know if it doesn't work fast enough to pull out of it.

Alll I'm asking is how bad is it gonna look. I pulled 3.85 this semester which is something u did not take into account ..so if I do that I'll get 3.62 if I delay . and I'm ok with ut austin georgetown michigan who have 25th percentile below that .

Thanks
You came here to ask for our advice. My advice - and the advice of most of the posters ITT - is that your plan to do 2 extra years of college is bad. You are mathematically unlikely to raise your GPA to a 3.6, even with straight-4.0 semesters over the next 2 years (which is no knock on your abilities but simply a matter of probability); your assumption of 4 straight 4.0-semesters is unlikely to actually happen, as it entails no margin of error (if, instead, we assume 4 straight 3.85 semesters, 8 semesters of 3.3 and 4 semesters of 3.85 would net a cumulative GPA of only 3.48, assuming equal credits per semester); amassing that many extra credits for your Bachelor's will likely harm you in adcoms' eyes, especially combined with your two transfers and your two years off; and finally, even if you actually get your GPA to 3.6, you'll still be under the T13s' 25% GPA. (You're right that Michigan's 25% GPA is 3.57, but again, note that it's unlikely you'll actually get to a 3.6 cumulative. And none of the other T13s' 25% GPA is as low as Michigan's.)

None of us ITT are knocking your abilities or your dreams. My previous post expressly said the T13 was within your reach, provided you do very well on the LSAT.
Npret wrote:1.OP you are assuming a high LSAT score. I feel you have no evidence that you can achieve this score. If your LSAT isn’t high enough, this plan is a waste of time and money.

2. You will have 200 credits at graduation. This is not the same as going on and off for 8 years. You will have about 80 credits more than you need. Law school admins will note this and wonder why you went down this path.

3. You seem fixed on your GPA, but again, I’m asking you what your LSAC GPA is/will be. It’s not always as students expect.

4. You don’t seem to understand our explanations as to why this is a bad plan. Re read what people have written.
Short version:
a. Schools will question this
b. Unrealistic expectation of 2 years of perfect grades
c. Even if successful, GPA is still low
d. You’re wasting your time on pointless undergrad instead of moving ahead with your life just to improve your GPA
e. Assuming a high LSAT without taking the test. (This is a huge one and many people make this error.) Are you a good standardized test taker? Can you think well under pressure?

5. If you still won’t listen, why did you ask our advice? Find others to advise you. I find it difficult to believe anyone thinks this is a good plan for your life. Professional admission counselors can help you.
Npret is exactly right. OP is assuming a very high LSAT score, assuming 2 years of straight-A grades, and assuming the advice ITT about splitters, backed up by MyLSN data, is unreliable (instead preferring to rely on some unarticulated theory about "going off of the schools' 25th percentile"). See:
nicole1994 wrote:but I don't feel comfortable relying on that [MyLSN] info..its based on a small pool of applicants so I feel that going off of the schools' 25th percentile is much more legitimate and comfortable
None of the three assumptions above are good assumptions to make.

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:38 pm

hi all,

ok so I really do appreciate yall's advice, it's just that earlier I felt that perhaps my question/idea was not being communicated clearly , which was kind of to what extent might my record of having taken X yrs to graduate hinder me rather than asking about the validity of the plan. Sorry for probably having sounded frustrated as a result earlier, but I understand yall's concerns so I'd like to give my responses to them:

update though: didn't think about professional counseling before, but I will look into it now and with help for apps in the future. Also, I think I will stay for at least one more year (until next may) to raise it. If I do(I used school registrar's tool online to figure out what it would be) I could get it to 3.55-3.57. my reasoning behind this is that I feel a lot safer being at or above my desired school's ( gtown, ut Austin, mich, ucla, vandy, emory usc in that order) 25th percentile as opposed to below it. with summer school It could probably be raised to 3.6 .also I am making this decision not on the basis that I will score high lsat, because I feel that it makes sense to want to be as close to 25th or above it regardless. and for any non t14, I assume that a 3.6 is a reasonable gpa to apply with. I address these in a more direct way below.


However, y'all have made me question attending for an extra yr after this to raise my gpa..bc although I have a good gut feeling that attending school next yr to get it to 3.55-3.6 will be more worth it than leaving with a 3.4 for reasons explained above(kind of set on staying on next year),


I guess y'all are reminding me that staying for another year after this to raise it from 3.55-3.6 to the 3.62-3.65 range is not worth it. Which is why I guess these are my questions:


1) how significant is a GPA jump from 3.55 to 3.65? doing this would cost paying at least 10k for tuition. 3.55 is still above 25th percentile for most of my schools, and 3.65 would be closer to most of their medians which are around 3.75. if it is worth it, I don't mind. bc like I said naturally im capable of 3.86 . did that this semester and consistently did this before I let my illnesses that I was diagnosed for and which completely changed me as a person get the best of me(yes my fault). again, if yall doubt this, I could stop trying to raise it before its too late. for instance, if performance sucks next semester, ill just graduate. but im talking about if it works out.

2) would a solid LSAT be enough for to get in with 3.55-3.6? I might take summer classes to get it 3.6.

3) the original question was how badly might schools view staying, and if anyone has answer to this, please feel free to comment. If it doesn't matter then that's really the only thing that was holding me back because I felt safer being above 25th than[/u] far below it..moreover if I were to get it to 3.65 that would be somewhat close to median.

3)

1.OP you are assuming a high LSAT score. I feel you have no evidence that you can achieve this score. If your LSAT isn’t high enough, this plan is a waste of time and money.

yes, you are correct I have no evidence for this. but I don't think I am assuming high LSAT, it's just that if im going to apply to t14 at all, I feel much safer doing so with a 3.6 or close to it(being ABOVE 25th) rather than below it.
2. You will have 200 credits at graduation. This is not the same as going on and off for 8 years. You will have about 80 credits more than you need. Law school admins will note this and wonder why you went down this path.

i'm just curious to what extent they might hinge on it.

3. You seem fixed on your GPA, but again, I’m asking you what your LSAC GPA is/will be. It’s not always as students expect.

Sorry..i believe my lsac gpa from current university=3.3 and from community colg when I felt much healthier= 3.9. while LSAC gpa might take into account both of these combined, the schools I called didn't give a clear answer when I asked them if they take junior colleges into account. So again, I feel much safer relying on university gpa.

4. You don’t seem to understand our explanations as to why this is a bad plan. Re read what people have written.
Short version:
b. Unrealistic expectation of 2 years of perfect grades: my question was directed towards asking if it does work out. I feel that the only reason my gpa dipped was bc of my illnesses as that was the sudden change which affected my whole lifestyle and me as a person and i never took care of it. I have now though..and while I understand this is a totally valid question given my record, for instance, if i don't perform well next semester, I won't go through with the plan and am only gonna go forward if things go right next semester.

c. Even if successful, GPA is still low : but I would rather apply with above 25th (3.6) or close to median(3.65) than sigfnicantly below median.

d. You’re wasting your time on pointless undergrad instead of moving ahead with your life just to improve your GPA: if it gives me a good shot then why not. I can get the same job after graduation.
e. Assuming a high LSAT without taking the test. (This is a huge one and many people make this error.) Are you a good standardized test taker? Can you think well under pressure? I have no choice but to make a high lsat this point.. i think well under pressure but I know LSAT will take a lot of work. I plan to take it next june, and want to start prepping now. worst case scenario if it doesn't work. i would apply to t20 with somewhere around 3.6-3.65 and a decent LSAT

these are really long posts, so thanks again.

nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:50 pm

@ moderator and I guess who ever this may apply to:

1) ok so I think we have to agree to disagree on one thing, which is my gpa. only i know my abilities(based on what i have achieved this semester and in past), which is much different than my record shows. you guys can only rely on my record, i understand. as a result, can we agree to disagree about what i can bring my gpa up to. also, it won't be a 3.48. I literally used my school's gpa calculator to figure it what it would be if i make slightly less than perfect and it would be 3.57 after two years and 3.62 after 3. while i realize this is a stretch, that is why i will stop after a bad semester and not continue with this plan. this is the first semester i have started addressing my illness since i was diagnosed and got 3.85 so im giving it a shot. again, my backup is to graduate after it won't work out after a semester.


and ut austin's (i attend UT now) 25th is much lwoer than michigans. its around 3.4 something. i
Georgetown 25th: 3.5 something
the other schools (ucla, usc, emory, vandy) have 25th in this range if not lower as well I believe. my target is UT though.


2) y'all have given me advice about advising me with raising gpa. I think we might have to agree to disagree on this, as if things don't go as planned next semester, I will just graduate. as a result, can i ask yall's advice on on :


a) getting into Ut/ georgetown/mich with a 3.55 or a 3.6

b) how yall think adcoms might react to having taken this long. i guess i might have to go to professional admissions counseling for this?

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by Npret » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:52 pm

OP - calculate your GPA according to the LSAC guidelines. They will count every class with some exceptions.

If you have a 3.9 from community college your reported GPA should be higher than not including it.

https://www.lsac.org/applying-law-schoo ... marization

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nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 12:55 pm

again, just to clarify, can we agree to disagree on the gpa thing for the reason that if i make lower than expected within a certain semester, I can just graduate and call it quits without it negatively affecting my overall gpa.

assuming it does work it though,

I was hoping to ask for advice about :

a) what would it be like applying to UT/mich/gtown with a 3.6. based on previous posts asking for this, they seemd to have gotten in with upper 160 LSAT

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nixy » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:05 pm

For your last question, check out mylsn.info.

Unlike others, I don’t think taking a longer time to graduate has to hurt you, but you should probably be prepared to give an explanation for why you’re taking this long, and that should probably be something other than “I like classes and wanted to raise my GPA” - Which is to say that there are lots of legit reasons why some people take longer to graduate than others, but just taking longer because you wanted to might be a hard sell.

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by QContinuum » Thu Dec 13, 2018 1:13 pm

nicole1994 wrote:a) what would it be like applying to UT/mich/gtown with a 3.6. based on previous posts asking for this, they seemd to have gotten in with upper 160 LSAT
How do you expect us to answer this question when you refuse to believe MyLSN data?

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by cavalier1138 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:23 pm

nicole1994 wrote:...if i make lower than expected within a certain semester, I can just graduate and call it quits without it negatively affecting my overall gpa.
This raises another question. It sounds like you're already positioned to graduate. When would the school consider your degree awarded? If you've already fulfilled all your degree requirements, will you automatically receive your BA, even if you stay enrolled?

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by albanach » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:34 pm

OP makes a number of comments about an LSAT in the 75th percentile. I think we should be clear that a 75th percentile LSAT score is not nearly good enough for a top law school. Your target as a splitter should be the 98-99th percentiles. This is why two years with an easy job truly mastering the LSAT is probably a much better ROI than two years getting a small boost to your GPA.

nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 2:38 pm

1) I couldnt find lsac gpa calculator on there but I fount it on other site and will calculate on there ..this is a huge game changer though ..bc I didnt know this was the gpa that was used meaning my gpa would essentially be my comm college gpa+university gpa .

2) . while my reason for staying in school is essentially to raise gpa, I wouldn't have ever done this if it weren't for my illnesses.I'll haave to figure out a way to address this , but like I wouldn't be staying longer if my grades were a result of partying etc which I actually never did here etc. Its more like I let my illnesses get the best of me and I don't want it to negatively affect me if I know what my potential is and can do a bit better In the future to avoid that . hope that makes sense.

3) Sorry . I don't think I disregard lsn info..I was just trying to point out that I guess a 3.4 and 170 seemed to have only shown to give a good shot at like one school .

4) I suspect that with my comm college +university gpa my lsac gpa will probably be upper 3.5. If I raise my uni gpa to 3.6 and stay next year, my lsac gpa might be able to be 3.7. I feel like it woukd be worth it raise from upper 3.5 to 3.7+ ..ut austin median is 3.74 . ucla median is 3.72

I hAve yet to calculate it lsac gpa(bout to study for my last final first) ..I'll also do that and reply what that would like. I was gonna consider staying though if an extra yr would get bump me from upper 3.5 to 3.7 lsac gpa wise

nicole1994

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by nicole1994 » Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:09 pm

About to study for my last final exam , but :

1) I haven't received degree yet. I only need 1 or 2 more clases to graduate and was gonna hold off take those..like I havent signed up for those classes that I need yet so I'm not considered graduated yet

2) clarification :by 75th percentile , I meant 75th percentile for the lsat for the schools I want to get into(texas, georgetown ,) . However , later I wanted to clarify as while I hope for this, that me wanting to stay wasnt dependent on obtaining this score..as id be comfortable applying to those schools who have median gpas of 3.72-3.75 if I can raise lsac gpa to 3.7 range . I can raise my uni gpa to 3.6 (3.65 if I say one year longer) and my comm college gpa is 3.9 .

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Re: delaying graduation to raise gpa. am i out?

Post by albanach » Thu Dec 13, 2018 6:14 pm

nicole1994 wrote:About to study for my last final exam , but :

1) I haven't received degree yet. I only need 1 or 2 more clases to graduate and was gonna hold off take those..like I havent signed up for those classes that I need yet so I'm not considered graduated yet

2) clarification :by 75th percentile , I meant 75th percentile for the lsat for the schools I want to get into(texas, georgetown ,) . However , later I wanted to clarify as while I hope for this, that me wanting to stay wasnt dependent on obtaining this score..as id be comfortable applying to those schools who have median gpas of 3.72-3.75 if I can raise lsac gpa to 3.7 range . I can raise my uni gpa to 3.6 (3.65 if I say one year longer) and my comm college gpa is 3.9 .
Thanks for the clarification re the LSAT score.

I still think that you cannot possibly get your GPA into the realm that it will be a significant boost. Neither is it terribly problematic as it currently stands. You should, therefore focus your time, energy and money on mastering the LSAT not extending your college career. Staying in school can't help significantly and might cause adcomms to be concerned.

With a 3.6-3.65 GPA, you're already looking at decent scholarships in the T-14

Image

Getting up to a 3.7-3.75 does increase your chances a bit at Chicago/Columbia/NYU but comes at a significant cost.

Image

And you're still going to need to find the time to master the LSAT. A 75th percentile score (typically 170 or above) doesn't come easily to many people. If you already had that under your belt, or were at least testing in that range, it might be different. I still think you should expend the time, energy and money on the LSAT as, with your current or potential GPA, it's the LSAT that will determine what school you attend.

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