Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

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Eggs

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby Eggs » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:14 pm

Pretty sure most people obtain fine careers without going to Ivy League schools. I don't have any friends who have struggled to find a job after graduating college. Granted, that's in the Dakotas where the unemployment rate is almost 0. The elite focus of TLS seems to make sense when pertaining to the legal profession because it's competitive. Let's not pretend like that bleeds into undergrad too. You're not doomed to a life of minimum wage/unemployment if you don't go to an Ivy League college.

popgoestheweasel

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby popgoestheweasel » Wed Feb 06, 2019 1:43 pm

I'm not saying non Ivy League alums can't have good careers. What I'm saying is there's little comparison between Dakota U and an Ivy in terms of what jobs are available post grad. A bulge bracket bank, large accounting firm, or high caliber consulting firm will not bother to recruit at those schools. Your network at an ivy will be much stronger because of the alumni base. If you study anthropology sure, you won't get those jobs. But if you study Econ/even poli sci you stand to make six figures out of graduation with no need of going to grad school.

Npret

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby Npret » Wed Feb 06, 2019 2:09 pm

OP will probably get in with money at UVa and moot this entire discussion.

Good luck OP!

ughbugchugplug

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby ughbugchugplug » Wed Feb 06, 2019 3:44 pm

Ok just want to be clear - I was being talked down to about the insular nature of Alabama and the wonderful opportunities available from state schools from two people who grew up in a high end suburb and the Upper East Side? Jesus this site needs a profile that shows your background, might deter some truly armchair philosophizing

popgoestheweasel

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby popgoestheweasel » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:44 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote:Ok just want to be clear - I was being talked down to about the insular nature of Alabama and the wonderful opportunities available from state schools from two people who grew up in a high end suburb and the Upper East Side? Jesus this site needs a profile that shows your background, might deter some truly armchair philosophizing


This. And I agree with all of your prior points. I'd never claim the education/teaching at Alabama is worse than an Ivy. But that is not what matters. Rather, it is what doors are opened by a particular degree, and whether to advise an 18 year old to close a ton of them because he or she thinks they want to be an attorney and make their planned schooling stretch to seven years.

Npret

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby Npret » Wed Feb 06, 2019 4:57 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote:Ok just want to be clear - I was being talked down to about the insular nature of Alabama and the wonderful opportunities available from state schools from two people who grew up in a high end suburb and the Upper East Side? Jesus this site needs a profile that shows your background, might deter some truly armchair philosophizing

I wasn’t talking down to you. I’m giving my experience and my view. I have direct personal experience with Alabama but I don’t think I need to justify it. Suffice it to say I have extensive family living in one of the major cities in Alabama.

I stand by my view that Alabama is insular. OP asked about law school and that’s the advice I gave. I know nothing about undergrad admissions but I’m not going to flat out tell someone that all Cornell grads have “prestigious, high paying jobs.”

Maybe OP can chime in as to what advice they are seeking.

The Lsat Airbender

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby The Lsat Airbender » Thu Feb 07, 2019 2:48 pm

ughbugchugplug wrote:Ok just want to be clear - I was being talked down to about the insular nature of Alabama and the wonderful opportunities available from state schools from two people who grew up in a high end suburb and the Upper East Side? Jesus this site needs a profile that shows your background, might deter some truly armchair philosophizing


Uh, the South has suburbs too, lol. It is precisely that background that lets me attest to the fact that Alabama will serve OP just fine, subject to the reasonable caveats that they're uninterested in MBB consulting and don't want to move far from home except for law school. What's your understanding of outcomes from UA based on, besides your generalizing from a handful of friends' experiences at some other state school?

popgoestheweasel wrote:I'm not saying non Ivy League alums can't have good careers. What I'm saying is there's little comparison between Dakota U and an Ivy in terms of what jobs are available post grad. A bulge bracket bank, large accounting firm, or high caliber consulting firm will not bother to recruit at those schools. Your network at an ivy will be much stronger because of the alumni base. If you study anthropology sure, you won't get those jobs. But if you study Econ/even poli sci you stand to make six figures out of graduation with no need of going to grad school.


You keep presupposing, for no apparent reason, that OP wants any of that. It's about as useful as saying they need to go to the Naval Academy so they have the option of being a submarine captain. The mere possibility that OP might want one of those opportunities (most of those jobs suck ass for the same reasons biglaw does) and might get one (except maybe for big-four accounting (which seriously sucks ass), those jobs aren't safe bets unless you're magna-cum-laude in a STEM major) is not worth six-figure debt. It just isn't. On the other hand, OP is apparently interested in law school, and going to a state flagship for free is much better than shelling out for an out-of-state private school if one's plan is law school.

And Npret is right that, in Alabama, Bama's alumni network is unrivaled (except by Auburn, of course). Even Duke/Vanderbilt, which are about as prestigious as Cornell/Dartmouth and have much stronger roots in the South, don't open doors in Birmingham or Mobile the way that local schools do. That connection could be invaluable if OP goes to a T13 law school and wants to come back home to work at a firm like Baker Donelson or Bradley Arant, or in state/local government.

popgoestheweasel

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby popgoestheweasel » Thu Feb 07, 2019 7:21 pm

The Lsat Airbender wrote:
ughbugchugplug wrote:Ok just want to be clear - I was being talked down to about the insular nature of Alabama and the wonderful opportunities available from state schools from two people who grew up in a high end suburb and the Upper East Side? Jesus this site needs a profile that shows your background, might deter some truly armchair philosophizing


Uh, the South has suburbs too, lol. It is precisely that background that lets me attest to the fact that Alabama will serve OP just fine, subject to the reasonable caveats that they're uninterested in MBB consulting and don't want to move far from home except for law school. What's your understanding of outcomes from UA based on, besides your generalizing from a handful of friends' experiences at some other state school?

popgoestheweasel wrote:I'm not saying non Ivy League alums can't have good careers. What I'm saying is there's little comparison between Dakota U and an Ivy in terms of what jobs are available post grad. A bulge bracket bank, large accounting firm, or high caliber consulting firm will not bother to recruit at those schools. Your network at an ivy will be much stronger because of the alumni base. If you study anthropology sure, you won't get those jobs. But if you study Econ/even poli sci you stand to make six figures out of graduation with no need of going to grad school.


You keep presupposing, for no apparent reason, that OP wants any of that. It's about as useful as saying they need to go to the Naval Academy so they have the option of being a submarine captain. The mere possibility that OP might want one of those opportunities (most of those jobs suck ass for the same reasons biglaw does) and might get one (except maybe for big-four accounting (which seriously sucks ass), those jobs aren't safe bets unless you're magna-cum-laude in a STEM major) is not worth six-figure debt. It just isn't. On the other hand, OP is apparently interested in law school, and going to a state flagship for free is much better than shelling out for an out-of-state private school if one's plan is law school.

And Npret is right that, in Alabama, Bama's alumni network is unrivaled (except by Auburn, of course). Even Duke/Vanderbilt, which are about as prestigious as Cornell/Dartmouth and have much stronger roots in the South, don't open doors in Birmingham or Mobile the way that local schools do. That connection could be invaluable if OP goes to a T13 law school and wants to come back home to work at a firm like Baker Donelson or Bradley Arant, or in state/local government.


I wrote that bc it's premature for OP to commit to seven years of education vs. 4. He says law (maybe because of cultural influences like Boston Legal or L&O, idk) so he clearly wants a white collar job. Those jobs may suck if you aren't interested in them, but some people are and the exit ops are unparalleled. Idk the Alabama market and therefor didn't comment on it.

It's not the stem majors who get those jobs from ivies. More Econ/government and by no means magna. The bar is lower than big law at most law schools even in the top50.

The Lsat Airbender

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Re: Alabama vs Cornell undergrad

Postby The Lsat Airbender » Fri Feb 08, 2019 12:52 pm

popgoestheweasel wrote:I wrote that bc it's premature for OP to commit to seven years of education vs. 4. He says law (maybe because of cultural influences like Boston Legal or L&O, idk) so he clearly wants a white collar job. Those jobs may suck if you aren't interested in them, but some people are and the exit ops are unparalleled. Idk the Alabama market and therefor didn't comment on it.


I can agree with all of that. Again, I think it's a much closer call if OP expresses different preferences. If, for example, OP wants to get out of the South, I think going to an Ivy League college is a slam-dunk obvious choice if it's available. But we're talking about a huge pot of post-tax (in fact, probably tax-advantaged if it's sitting in mom and dad's 529) money and I think that's got to be the heavier side of the scale unless and until OP decides they really might want those sorts of opportunities.

It's not the stem majors who get those jobs from ivies. More Econ/government and by no means magna. The bar is lower than big law at most law schools even in the top50.


Our disagreement comes from the difference between what's guaranteed and what's possible (and I also because I have this bias where think of econ as applied math, lol). Sure - networking is unreal in those elite environments and it's possible for the polisci major with a 3.4 to get some interviews and maybe a full-time offer. But my impression from friends and family who are at places like UChicago/Penn/Columbia is that it's very possible to strike out without doing anything "wrong" - you really want top-third grades and some quant skills to be confident. HYPS probably have a bit more security.



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