Old Fart Support Group please

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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laotaipo
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby laotaipo » Sun Dec 24, 2017 12:24 am

I think I may be the oldest person in this group. Nearing the mid-50s?

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DorkothyParker
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby DorkothyParker » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:20 pm

laotaipo wrote:I think I may be the oldest person in this group. Nearing the mid-50s?


Winner, winner. Chicken dinner!

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wmbuff
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby wmbuff » Wed Dec 27, 2017 1:30 pm

DorkothyParker wrote:
laotaipo wrote:I think I may be the oldest person in this group. Nearing the mid-50s?


Winner, winner. Chicken dinner!


Good avatar for it, too.
Last edited by wmbuff on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Piggy11
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Piggy11 » Wed Dec 27, 2017 6:14 pm

laotaipo wrote:I think I may be the oldest person in this group. Nearing the mid-50s?

Welcome!

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laotaipo
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby laotaipo » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:28 pm

Thanks! I know that many people question why I want to go to law school at my age, but I figure life is short and you gotta do what you want to do. I don't think I'll be any more unemployable at age 56 with a JD than without.

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Experiment626
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Experiment626 » Thu Dec 28, 2017 10:45 am

laotaipo wrote:Thanks! I know that many people question why I want to go to law school at my age, but I figure life is short and you gotta do what you want to do. I don't think I'll be any more unemployable at age 56 with a JD than without.


Definitely support do what you want to do if it'll make you happy, never too old to learn something new. I just hope you don't have to have the same 250k+ loan balances that most people do when they graduate. (not meant to sound sarcastic/mean at all)

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laotaipo
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby laotaipo » Thu Dec 28, 2017 11:33 am

Doesn't come across negatively at all. I have just decided to blow my entire 401K on this. I figure I'll never really be able to retire anyway, so what else is it good for?

lmb38
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby lmb38 » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:41 am

Hi all! Checking in here too. I’m 33 and could use some fellow non-trads to get through this cycle with. I’m applying a bit late, took the December LSAT. Still working on getting apps out the door, so no decisions yet for me. I’m single and no kids, so able to cast a wide net for schools. Fingers crossed for scholarship money though because, I’m sure like most of you, I’m very debt averse. Good luck to all of you and congrats to those with acceptances already in hand!

nomadiccyndi
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Hello all- you just made my day!

Postby nomadiccyndi » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:16 pm

Hello fellow old folks :)

Just stumbled across this board by dumb luck and I am so stoked to find other people who were alive pre-y2k. (And know what “y2k” means haha). I feel like this whole process has made me acutely aware that I am definitely not doing life in the recommended order and it’s just comforting to find others on the scenic path.

A bit about me- My name is Cyndi, I’m 34 from RI. It sounds like most of you guys are the over-achievers going for the 2nd career. I’m arriving from the opposite direction: former juvenile delinquent and high school dropout. Law school was never the something I saw in my future until a few years ago. I’ve spent the past 11 years working with 13-17 year old girls as a drug and alcohol treatment counselor and I absolutely love what I do. I felt like I could make more of a difference so a few years ago I came back to school, intending the become a social worker, but a year into school I found myself questioning what I hoped to accomplish. I realized that the things about my clients’ treatment that I wanted to change could a be connected to their involvement in the legal system and it’s clear that the system has a shortage of professionals who actually understand these kids and can advocate for them without inadvertently enabling them. And that, in a nutshell, is what brings me to today.

So, how many people have started hearing from schools already? And, if you’re comfortable sharing, how are things looking thus far? I didn’t get my apps in as early as I wanted so I know I still have a few weeks wait ahead of me, but high school dropouts
don’t really go thru this if they decide to go to college because there’s really only one option with a GED- community college followed by whatever state school had a direct transfer agreement. So, having never done this before I, I feel like I’m turning into a crazy person. In the interest of preserving my limited remaining sanity, I’d love to live vicariously through y’all :)

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wmbuff
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby wmbuff » Sat Dec 30, 2017 3:36 pm

Welcome to the gang, Cyndi! (I'm not quoting because I seem to have a character limit on the McWifi.)

I'm not sure we're all overachievers - my GPA certainly doesn't reflect that - but I do think we've all had enough time living to get a real sense of what we want out of life and law school. Given what you've said in your introduction, I hope you knocked the personal statement out of the park. That's great material to explain what brought you to this point, and what you want to accomplish.

Since I'm a super splitter, I applied to 18 schools to maximize my chances. So far, I've heard back from six of them, and have been admitted to four (with scholarships at three) and waitlisted at the other two. That's not entirely surprising, though the two waitlists seem to represent a change in admissions strategy for the schools. We'll see what comes next. I expect a lot of news over the next couple of months, and hope that some of it will be good.
Last edited by wmbuff on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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tooswolle
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby tooswolle » Sat Dec 30, 2017 4:04 pm

love seeing this thread and seeing older applicants going for it. I use to post here years ago, and got in to a few law schools in 2012 but was looking at 180K in loans to finance my education so I decided to forgo it and started working. Last year I took the plunge and started the app process for my mba. I’m currently a first year at a T20 and that law school itch started to come back so now I’m back here posting as I’m considering doing a JD/MBA. I’d love to see how your cycles play out and rooting for everyone here!

Legallylawyer2020
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Legallylawyer2020 » Sat Dec 30, 2017 7:40 pm

Not sure if there are any other law students that have popped into this thread. Stopped by to say I started as a 28 year old and am 29 now. I’m slightly older than the average student in my class, but there are also several students older than me. Several of my classmates are married with kids as well. Trust me. Once you get to law school no one pays attention to age or family status- you’re all in the trenches together!

Teacher
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby Teacher » Sat Dec 30, 2017 9:58 pm

Legallylawyer2020 wrote:Not sure if there are any other law students that have popped into this thread. Stopped by to say I started as a 28 year old and am 29 now. I’m slightly older than the average student in my class, but there are also several students older than me. Several of my classmates are married with kids as well. Trust me. Once you get to law school no one pays attention to age or family status- you’re all in the trenches together!


I just turned 28 so I’ll be the same boat as you. This is comforting to hear! I’m a bit nervous about moving alone to a new city at 28, but trying to be on the excited side rather than the nervous side!

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laotaipo
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby laotaipo » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:35 pm

So going back to Bush v. Gorgeous' query at the very start of this thread, do you think they would be less likely to admit an older person with the same stats as a younger person? Given that there aren't that many old folks applying, you would think they would just allow the geezer in...

haus
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby haus » Sat Dec 30, 2017 11:45 pm

laotaipo wrote:So going back to Bush v. Gorgeous' query at the very start of this thread, do you think they would be less likely to admit an older person with the same stats as a younger person? Given that there aren't that many old folks applying, you would think they would just allow the geezer in...

I doubt that age is much of a factor for most schools. Given that older applicants are likely to have both lower LSAT scores* and lower GPAs**, those that match up should have a reasonable shot at getting a green light.


* LSAC claims that older test takers score lower on the exam (on average)
** grade inflation seems to be a never ending treadmill, the further back you took undergrad courses, the lower the class average GPA are

nomadiccyndi
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby nomadiccyndi » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:22 am

wmbuff wrote:Welcome to the gang, Cyndi! (I'm not quoting because I seem to have a character limit on the McWifi.)

I'm not sure we're all overachievers - my GPA certainly doesn't reflect that - but I do think we've all had enough time living to get a real sense of what we want out of life and law school. Given what you've said in your introduction, I hope you knocked the personal statement out of the park. That's great material to explain what brought you to this point, and what you want to accomplish.

Since I'm a super splitter, I applied to 18 schools to maximize my chances. So far, I've heard back from six of them, and have been admitted to four (with scholarships at three) and waitlisted at the other two. That's not entirely surprising, though the two waitlists seem to represent a change in admissions strategy for the schools. We'll see what comes next. I expect a lot of news over the next couple of months, and hope that some of it will be good.


I was explaining the whole application process to my sister and when I told her about the personal statement she started laughing and was like, “Your whole ‘Story of Redemption/Pay It Forward’ schtick pretty much writes itself, huh” :mrgreen: I pointed out to her that I’m going to have to hope that my personal statement makes me sound amazing, because I am counting on that to distract from my, shall we say, ‘colorful’ Character/Fitness addenda.

Speaking of the Character/Fitness questions, did anyone else have to delay their app submissions in order to try to track down info to answer questions about driving history? Thankfully most schools said not to worry about minor violations but I was dumbstruck when some schools required EVERY citation, even if it was dismissed. I mean, I haven’t been pulled over in a few years, but I had a bit of a lead foot when I was younger and I’ve been driving for nearly 20 years! Who the hell remembers every speeding ticket they received for the last 20 years?!

The RMV doesn’t even keep that long of a driving history for minor violations. Trust me, I checked. Not to mention that I was a big fan of long road trips during my early 20’s, so I’ve had at least 2 tickets that I can’t even remember what STATE I was in when I got them :? I finally ended up having to say “I have received additional citations but I cannot provide an accurate accounting at this time as neither I nor the RI RMV have retained records that are over 10 years old”

nomadiccyndi
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby nomadiccyndi » Sun Dec 31, 2017 8:55 am

haus wrote:
laotaipo wrote:So going back to Bush v. Gorgeous' query at the very start of this thread, do you think they would be less likely to admit an older person with the same stats as a younger person? Given that there aren't that many old folks applying, you would think they would just allow the geezer in...

I doubt that age is much of a factor for most schools. Given that older applicants are likely to have both lower LSAT scores* and lower GPAs**, those that match up should have a reasonable shot at getting a green light.


* LSAC claims that older test takers score lower on the exam (on average)
** grade inflation seems to be a never ending treadmill, the further back you took undergrad courses, the lower the class average GPA are


This is total speculation, but my guess is that older students do better with schools that place a higher value on soft factors. All other things being equal, older students are much more likely to have compelling professional and personal life experiences to draw upon.

That said, I’ve seen at least a couple of indicators of subtle biases against non-traditional students, mainly from more elite private schools, but I suspect they were unintentional

NavyNuke
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby NavyNuke » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:07 am

nomadiccyndi wrote:
wmbuff wrote:Welcome to the gang, Cyndi! (I'm not quoting because I seem to have a character limit on the McWifi.)

I'm not sure we're all overachievers - my GPA certainly doesn't reflect that - but I do think we've all had enough time living to get a real sense of what we want out of life and law school. Given what you've said in your introduction, I hope you knocked the personal statement out of the park. That's great material to explain what brought you to this point, and what you want to accomplish.

Since I'm a super splitter, I applied to 18 schools to maximize my chances. So far, I've heard back from six of them, and have been admitted to four (with scholarships at three) and waitlisted at the other two. That's not entirely surprising, though the two waitlists seem to represent a change in admissions strategy for the schools. We'll see what comes next. I expect a lot of news over the next couple of months, and hope that some of it will be good.


I was explaining the whole application process to my sister and when I told her about the personal statement she started laughing and was like, “Your whole ‘Story of Redemption/Pay It Forward’ schtick pretty much writes itself, huh” :mrgreen: I pointed out to her that I’m going to have to hope that my personal statement makes me sound amazing, because I am counting on that to distract from my, shall we say, ‘colorful’ Character/Fitness addenda.

Speaking of the Character/Fitness questions, did anyone else have to delay their app submissions in order to try to track down info to answer questions about driving history? Thankfully most schools said not to worry about minor violations but I was dumbstruck when some schools required EVERY citation, even if it was dismissed. I mean, I haven’t been pulled over in a few years, but I had a bit of a lead foot when I was younger and I’ve been driving for nearly 20 years! Who the hell remembers every speeding ticket they received for the last 20 years?!

The RMV doesn’t even keep that long of a driving history for minor violations. Trust me, I checked. Not to mention that I was a big fan of long road trips during my early 20’s, so I’ve had at least 2 tickets that I can’t even remember what STATE I was in when I got them :? I finally ended up having to say “I have received additional citations but I cannot provide an accurate accounting at this time as neither I nor the RI RMV have retained records that are over 10 years old”


For the schools that wanted every ticket, I wrote down the details for every ticket that was on my driving record, and then added a statement saying that I have been driving for 13 years and have gotten one or two more tickets that I can't recall the exact details for. Ended by saying that all fines associated with my tickets were promptly paid, and that I have never had my driving privileges suspended or revoked.

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wmbuff
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby wmbuff » Sun Dec 31, 2017 9:36 am

NavyNuke wrote:
nomadiccyndi wrote:
wmbuff wrote:Welcome to the gang, Cyndi! (I'm not quoting because I seem to have a character limit on the McWifi.)

I'm not sure we're all overachievers - my GPA certainly doesn't reflect that - but I do think we've all had enough time living to get a real sense of what we want out of life and law school. Given what you've said in your introduction, I hope you knocked the personal statement out of the park. That's great material to explain what brought you to this point, and what you want to accomplish.

Since I'm a super splitter, I applied to 18 schools to maximize my chances. So far, I've heard back from six of them, and have been admitted to four (with scholarships at three) and waitlisted at the other two. That's not entirely surprising, though the two waitlists seem to represent a change in admissions strategy for the schools. We'll see what comes next. I expect a lot of news over the next couple of months, and hope that some of it will be good.


I was explaining the whole application process to my sister and when I told her about the personal statement she started laughing and was like, “Your whole ‘Story of Redemption/Pay It Forward’ schtick pretty much writes itself, huh” :mrgreen: I pointed out to her that I’m going to have to hope that my personal statement makes me sound amazing, because I am counting on that to distract from my, shall we say, ‘colorful’ Character/Fitness addenda.

Speaking of the Character/Fitness questions, did anyone else have to delay their app submissions in order to try to track down info to answer questions about driving history? Thankfully most schools said not to worry about minor violations but I was dumbstruck when some schools required EVERY citation, even if it was dismissed. I mean, I haven’t been pulled over in a few years, but I had a bit of a lead foot when I was younger and I’ve been driving for nearly 20 years! Who the hell remembers every speeding ticket they received for the last 20 years?!

The RMV doesn’t even keep that long of a driving history for minor violations. Trust me, I checked. Not to mention that I was a big fan of long road trips during my early 20’s, so I’ve had at least 2 tickets that I can’t even remember what STATE I was in when I got them :? I finally ended up having to say “I have received additional citations but I cannot provide an accurate accounting at this time as neither I nor the RI RMV have retained records that are over 10 years old”


For the schools that wanted every ticket, I wrote down the details for every ticket that was on my driving record, and then added a statement saying that I have been driving for 13 years and have gotten one or two more tickets that I can't recall the exact details for. Ended by saying that all fines associated with my tickets were promptly paid, and that I have never had my driving privileges suspended or revoked.


The big problem for me is the ticket that disappeared. I could swear I was issued a ticket on a long road trip. I'm certain of the state where I was pulled over, and which section of interstate I was on, and I know the date and time within an hour. I lost the paper copy, though, and that state never reported it to my own. I checked with their DMV, Highway Patrol, and ever court and local police force between the border and the city I was driving to. Nobody had a record of stopping me. That was fun to put on my C&F.
Last edited by wmbuff on Sun Jan 28, 2018 8:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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laotaipo
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby laotaipo » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:37 am

Do the schools that want traffic citations explained specifically say to include them? I didn't get the feeling from my apps that little things like that were being included...

NavyNuke
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby NavyNuke » Sun Dec 31, 2017 10:47 am

laotaipo wrote:Do the schools that want traffic citations explained specifically say to include them? I didn't get the feeling from my apps that little things like that were being included...


Yeah not every school wanted to know about minor traffic tickets. Cornell, Vanderbilt, and maybe one or two others I applied to wanted an addendum if I remember correctly.

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TripleM
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby TripleM » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:12 am

Just wanted to say "hey". I'm 39, married and have one kid. I ran into that issue on the driving record, too. I'm pretty sure I had a speeding ticket when I was 16 but records don't go back that far (the stone tablets degrade over time). I just recorded everything that showed up and stated that I was pretty sure there were others that did not clearly recall but were limited to low-level speeding tickets and the like.

NonTradHealthLaw
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby NonTradHealthLaw » Sun Dec 31, 2017 11:51 am

Howdy to all of you who used both typewriters and computers throughout your educational journey. I entered law school at 32 and have been working in biglaw since graduation (39yo now). Happy to be a resource for anyone with specific questions.

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laotaipo
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby laotaipo » Mon Jan 01, 2018 1:33 am

Hi, NonTradHealthLaw,
In your experience with BigLaw, do you think an older person (I mean, really older, 50+) with credentials running websites for Top 10 colleges and Top 5 newspapers might find a niche?

NonTradHealthLaw
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Re: Old Fart Support Group please

Postby NonTradHealthLaw » Mon Jan 01, 2018 10:16 am

laotaipo wrote:Hi, NonTradHealthLaw,
In your experience with BigLaw, do you think an older person (I mean, really older, 50+) with credentials running websites for Top 10 colleges and Top 5 newspapers might find a niche?


"Might" is the operative word. There aren't many data points for 50+ y.o. junior associates. It could happen; but, recognize that you'll be the one selling your niche rather than a firm recruiting you. Education law is an interesting small subset of Government/Policy that some biglaw firms practice. That sounds like it could be tangential to your past life.

Be prepared to explain your "why law" journey constantly to potential employers and to demonstrate your ability to take instruction and criticism from people younger than you. Even if not asked, I'd encourage you to practice injecting your answer proactively. Be deliberate about explaining your journey, your niche, your goals, and what you bring to the table immediately (the typical law student answer of "eagerness and a desire to learn" won't cut it bc your shelf life will produce less of a long-term return), and you "might" find a home in biglaw.

Have a backup plan or eight, though, as all law students should do.




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