HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
Anonymous Questioner
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:57 pm

HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:52 pm

Hey all, I could use some advice on the following circumstances.

Long story short: I was fired from my job at a political action campaign for inhaling a hit of marijuana on my lunch break. The following is a letter of recommendation from my employer detailing the circumstances in full, truthful, and accurate detail:

"To Whom It May Concern:
I write this letter to clarify circumstances surrounding the termination of [employee 1, me] from [place of employment], and to advocate on his behalf.
Through confidential channels, it came to my attention that an employee of mine, [employee 2], had repeatedly smoked marijuana during his on-the-clock lunch breaks. When I confronted [employee 2] about this, he implicated [employee 1] as well, and I was forced to terminate both of them. However, circumstances bear much clarification, and [employee 1]'s exceptional work for our campaign and his exemplary behavior demand a clarification of the exact circumstances. My understanding is as follows:
During a lunch break in early June of 2017, [employee 1] stepped outside and bumped into his fellow employee, [employee 2], smoking marijuana next to the door. [Employee 2] shoved the paraphernalia in [employee 1]'s face and encouraged him, along with several other non-manager co-workers, to inhale a hit. [Employee 1] apparently gave into the peer pressure and took a hit. Immediately, he realized that what he had done was incredibly irresponsible, and he ended the interaction, walking away before anything else could take place. It’s my understanding from [employee 1] and several other employees that over the coming weeks, [employee 1] refused all subsequent offers from [employee 2]. However, when I learned about [employee 2]'s behavior, he implicated [employee 1] in an attempt to minimize his own misbehavior by association. When I called [employee 1] into my office to discuss the matter with him, he forthrightly and honestly admitted that he had made a mistake; he apologized for making it, and he respectfully agreed to accept whatever administrative consequences might be necessary. Unfortunately, my hands were tied, and on June 27th, 2017, I was forced to terminate him.
This being the case, I still must say that [employee 1] is one of the most exemplary staff I’ve ever seen in my role. He was reliably polite, deferential, humble, and just in his actions both before and after promotion - setting a firm, positive example to the staff he supervised. [Employee 1] was markedly passionate about the issues we work on, and that passion bore itself out in his work. Regularly, [employee 1] put in the extra work that our office needed to get the job done, himself regularly putting in 12-hour days and participating in all levels of the job with zeal. I can confidently say that our office would not have met its campaign goals if [employee 1] hadn’t made himself an exemplary leader early on in our summer. [Employee 1} made a mistake, and it was a mistake for which I was forced to fire him, but from our conversation that day and several conversations since it is clear to me that he learned from the experience, and has if anything used it as an opportunity to make himself an even more professional, even more exemplary individual. The incident over which I was forced to fire him does not in any way constitute a pattern of misconduct, nor does it in the least bit reflect his performance as an exemplary manager.
It is my personal and professional opinion that [employee 1] remains one of the best employees one could ask for, and that this incident should not adversely affect his future employment prospects in any way. Again, if anything, I know [employee 1] well enough to know that this incident has simply molded him into an even more professional employee, having learned a valuable lesson the hard way. As C.S. Lewis wrote, 'Experience is the most brutal of teachers. But you learn, my God you learn.'
I fully recommend him for your organization with nothing but the highest praise for his work, demeanor, and dedication. Should any questions arise, please do not hesitate to contact me."

For obvious reasons, I want to use this letter, because I think it speaks more loudly than I could articulate myself in an addendum, and because it speaks from a more objective point of view. My biggest question is this: am I allowed to attach letters of recommendation as addenda? If not, would it be an incredibly stupid idea to use this letter as an actual submitted letter of recommendation? Thanks so much for your input, guys.
Last edited by Anonymous Questioner on Mon Aug 14, 2017 4:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.

User avatar
stego
Posts: 5305
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:23 am

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby stego » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:00 pm

I think there is one line where you forgot to edit out someone's first name.

Anonymous Questioner
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:14 pm

stego wrote:I think there is one line where you forgot to edit out someone's first name.


Thanks for the heads-up! Do you have any thoughts about my best path forward?

User avatar
BulletTooth
Posts: 90
Joined: Thu Apr 27, 2017 1:24 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby BulletTooth » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:19 pm

The wordiness is a bit over the top. You could maybe edit down a bit the hyperbole a bit, and I think that would make it sound more genuine.

User avatar
stego
Posts: 5305
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:23 am

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby stego » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:21 pm

Anonymous Questioner wrote:
stego wrote:I think there is one line where you forgot to edit out someone's first name.


Thanks for the heads-up! Do you have any thoughts about my best path forward?

I am just a lowly 0L-soon-to-be 1L but my instinct is that since you probably need to disclose the firing on your application anyway, submitting this letter as an addendum can't hurt.

Maybe with the other offending employee's name redacted though.

I wouldn't edit the rest of the letter myself since it's not your writing.

Anonymous Questioner
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:26 pm

BulletTooth wrote:The wordiness is a bit over the top. You could maybe edit down a bit the hyperbole a bit, and I think that would make it sound more genuine.

This actually is a letter of recommendation I got from my past employer. Thus, I'm not going to edit its content in any way. My question is whether I can submit the letter in PDF form as part of an addendum about why I was fired, or whether the addendum has to be purely my own writing. Thoughts?

User avatar
Mr. Archer
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Mr. Archer » Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:42 pm

This is definitely not a LOR in my opinion. It might be something to add as a C&F addendum, but you should probably get in touch with an admissions consultant beforehand. The letter has a few issues I think you need to address. I would agree this is a little over the top and wouldn't think something so long should be attached, because the C&F explanation should really be more about your explanation. The quote really strikes me as unnecessary, but that's not your fault. If you could get a shortened version written by the employer, I think that would help. You've also indicated this is a LOR, but you didn't say for law school, and I would assume it's not since you're recommended for the reader's "organization." If you want an addendum for C&F, then I think it needs to be directed as an explanation as to why your firing shouldn't reflect poorly on your C&F and affect law school admission. A recycled letter is strange to me, and makes me wonder whether the writer knows you're using it for admissions purposes/approves of you using it this way.

User avatar
rpupkin
Posts: 5242
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 10:32 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby rpupkin » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:19 pm

Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.

User avatar
stego
Posts: 5305
Joined: Thu Apr 30, 2015 3:23 am

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby stego » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:36 pm

rpupkin wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.

I just went on LSAC and checked my old law school applications. None of them ask about being fired from a job for cause.

I thought some applications did, but I would agree that OP should not attach this letter or disclose this firing on an application unless it asks about this.

Davidpuddy
Posts: 12
Joined: Thu Mar 02, 2017 12:37 am

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Davidpuddy » Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:52 pm

rpupkin wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.

Was wondering this too. I haven't seen this questions asked.

Anonymous Questioner
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:08 am

rpupkin wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.


Oh, interesting! Which schools did you apply to, and in what year? This is surprising news to me...I was under the impression that almost all of them asked if you'd ever been terminated from a job.

cavalier1138
Posts: 3773
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:20 am

Anonymous Questioner wrote:
rpupkin wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.


Oh, interesting! Which schools did you apply to, and in what year? This is surprising news to me...I was under the impression that almost all of them asked if you'd ever been terminated from a job.


I think that Emory might have asked that question, but I may only be remembering that they had an exceptionally harsh C&F questionnaire. But no, most schools do not ask about firings.

That said, the bar will almost certainly ask, so you should hold on to this letter for that.

User avatar
Mr. Archer
Posts: 243
Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 7:08 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Mr. Archer » Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:56 am

I filled out an explanation about a suspension, but it could have just been for my Emory application. I'm not sure if it was for my others as well.

User avatar
kellyfrost
King Corn
Posts: 5117
Joined: Mon Nov 09, 2015 3:58 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby kellyfrost » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:02 am

rpupkin wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.


I've got to agree with rpupkin here. He always gives sound advice and here is no different.

User avatar
Sprout
Posts: 633
Joined: Sun Nov 15, 2015 4:46 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Sprout » Sun Aug 13, 2017 11:11 am

rpupkin wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.

This.

Also, if it does come up for some weird reason that I cant think of until a C&F bar-related issue or job app situation, I would not use the LOR as YOUR addendum. Your addendum should be something you write yourself, not something someone else wrote years ago. Plus I agree with previous posters - it is a little over the top. If and when you do need to write an addendum, I would be much more succinct and keep it short and sweet and def not as self-aggrandizing

Anonymous Questioner
Posts: 10
Joined: Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:57 pm

Re: HELP: Minor C&F Issue -- Should I address with addendum or positive LOR?

Postby Anonymous Questioner » Tue Aug 15, 2017 11:41 am

rpupkin wrote:Perhaps I'm missing something, but why do you feel the need to address this at all in a law-school application? Are you filling out applications that ask you to explain the circumstances of your departures from the jobs you've held?

Unless a law school application asks for information to which your fired-for-smoking-pot story is responsive, I would not disclose, explain, or otherwise refer to this incident.


Hi, my main question concerns general C&F questions like "Do you know of any other matter that might adversely affect your admission to the bar of any state?" Because, while I doubt that it would be an automatic ding when I sit for the bar, I would imagine they would want to know much more and potentially even open a side investigation into the issue. I'm no expert, though -- just an anxious 0L haha. So for the purpose of truthfulness, does this event warrant an affirmative answer choice to the aforementioned question?




Return to “Law School Admissions Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 11 guests