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CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:50 am
by TheBlueDevil
Updating for c/o 2020 (/stealing) this thread from dietcoke1. Anyone can edit the spreadsheet, so please add numbers for the class of 2020 as you find them. I will do my best to keep it clean and updated.

LSAT Administration Data
https://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data ... ministered

509s
http://abarequireddisclosures.org/

Spreadsheet
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
Note: please only enter numbers and do not adjust formatting unless you know what you are doing and are making a genuine, necessary improvement.

Statistics available for:

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 12:05 pm
by MikeSpivey
I should have Florida's soon, fyi.

Where's that White Spider guy, though? He was born for this sleuthing.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:00 pm
by Bach-City
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Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:49 pm
by Bach-City
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Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:22 pm
by TheBlueDevil
Bach-City wrote:Oh man Oh man Oh man.

I get so excited for this time of year.

With the rise of the GRE in law school admissions, we may never get another year like this again. Treasure it friends.


Ikr. Especially with fewer high scoring applicants than last year... it should make for an exciting final season.

Also, thank you to whoever prettied up the Δ calculations!

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:38 pm
by AvatarMeelo
Welp, looking forward to the changes in the splitter-friendly t20 schools.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 4:52 pm
by doggozeg
Berkeley is such an anomaly of the T13.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:28 pm
by personofinterest
Replying to a post from the 2019 thread:

rideagain wrote:
personofinterest wrote:Based on mylsn.info (aggregator of lawschoolnumbers), you can get a pretty good idea of medians for the lower T14 and the rest of the T20. Here is what I think will happen based on that:

Penn - 169
UVA - 169
Michigan - 169
Duke -169
NU - 169
Berkeley - 167
Texas - 167
Georgetown - 167
UCLA - 167
Cornell - 166
Vandy - 166
WashU - 166
USC - 165

I really doubt that all of Penn/UVA/Duke/NU/Mich hold onto or go to 169s- there simply aren't enough 169+ scores to go around.

There are 9 schools with medians of 169 or higher right now. The final data indicates we have 2,993 applicants who scored a 169 or higher. Based on Class of 2019 class sizes, those 9 schools would need 1,358 of them to attend their schools in order to maintain a median of 169- just 169 mind you, not the 170, 171 etc some have. When you factor in that Harvard and Yale are definitely not going to drop below a 169 25th, then we're actually looking at 1,550 of our 169+ scorers being eaten up just to keep those existing medians. So 52% of our 169+ scorers are necessary just for 9 schools to keep existing medians. And that's assuming that 100% of our applicants actually attend- I'm a 169+ scorer who applied but elected not to attend in 2017, and I'm sure there are more.

Then you've got to consider the schools with 169+ 75ths not already accounted for- Berk, Mich, Northwestern, WashU. If they want to keep those we need another 262 169+ scorers, bringing us to 1,812 of our pool. That's 60.5% of the total.

Then you've gotta consider that a lot of our 167 and 168 median schools (Cornell, Georgetown, NU, Berk, Mich, UT, Vandy, WashU, UCLA etc) need 169 scorers to balance out 165, 166 etc to hold medians at the 167 to 168 range. Plus consider that the total pool of 167/168 scorers was down a few percent. Many of them (Cornell, NU, Mich, UT, Vandy, WashU) are known to be extremely generous in offering 169+ scorers scholarship $$$ to attract them. They eat up a huge portion of that pool.

So when we look at it, we just don't have enough high scoring applicants to keep medians at a lot of these places. I also doubt we'll see schools cut class size very much, for reasons Spivey has gone into at length. I think we're going to see most of them cling to existing medians, with a few dropping a point (I'm going to guess NYU loses a point, huge class size makes it tough, Columbia too since theirs is so high at 172 that's just tough to sustain). The 75ths are where I think we'll really see the hit- I bet we see at least half the t-14 lose a point or more in their 75ths, particularly those at 170 or above.


I think your analysis is good. The stats from mysln indicate that schools are at least shooting for the medians above. It will be interesting to see who hits it and who falls short.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 5:38 pm
by DaydreamNation
As a super splitter, if a bunch of schools ranked in the 8-25 range just happened to have their 75th and median LSATs drop by a point or two I'd be pretty happy. Ready for the numbers!

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:45 pm
by uion1715
For what it's worth, here is a MyLSN year-to-year ACCEPTED Median data for T13 + GULC.

Class of 2020 (Class of 2019)

YALE: 174/3.9 (175/3.91)
HARVARD: 174/3.9 (174/3.87)
STANFORD: 173/3.91 (174/3.9)
CHICAGO: 172/3.9 (172/3.86)
COLUMBIA: 173/3.76 (173/3.78)
NYU: 171/3.83 (172/3.82)
PENN: 170/3.89 (171/3.9)
UVA: 170/3.74 (170/3.80)
BERKELEY: 170/3.83 (170/3.80)
DUKE: 170/3.80 (171/3.80)
MICHIGAN: 170/3.78 (169/3.78)
NORTHWESTERN: 170/3.77 (169/3.75)
CORNELL: 168/3.84 (169/3.79)
GULC: 169/3.78 (169/3.74)

So, -1 LSAT for Yale, Stanford, NYU, Penn, Duke and Cornell. +1 for Michigan and Northwestern.

A pretty constant GPA except for UVA and Cornell.

Will update w/ more numbers.

T20 Numbers:

VANDY: 168/3.78 (168/3.7)
TEXAS: 168/3.72 (168/3.67)
UCLA: 169/3.75 (168/3.75)
WUSTL: 169/3.71 (168/3.6)
USC: 167/3.8 (167/3.73)
EMORY: 167/3.78 (167/3.59)

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:30 pm
by Veil of Ignorance
Bach-City wrote:Oh man Oh man Oh man.

I get so excited for this time of year.

With the rise of the GRE in law school admissions, we may never get another year like this again. Treasure it friends.


We'll at least have one more year like this, but 18-19 is going to be a whole new game...

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:42 pm
by doggozeg
This page may prove useful:

https://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered

Note that the number of LSAT takers in June 2017 was up almost 20% from the number of takers in June 2016. Perhaps this means more applicants this cycle and a more competitive cycle as a result in 2017-2018. It is just one of many exhibits, though.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:29 am
by rowdy
Do incremental changes in 25/50/75 mean anything if it doesn't change your relation to those numbers? If I'm still above 75 or below 25 or whatever on that number.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:14 am
by cavalier1138
rowdy wrote:Do incremental changes in 25/50/75 mean anything if it doesn't change your relation to those numbers? If I'm still above 75 or below 25 or whatever on that number.


Probably not a lot if you're above the 75th (except maybe scholarship money). But I think that if you're below the 25th, an incremental increase in the school's 25th only means that you're even farther away from what they're looking for.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 7:52 am
by TheBlueDevil
doggozeg wrote:This page may prove useful:

https://www.lsac.org/lsacresources/data/lsats-administered

Note that the number of LSAT takers in June 2017 was up almost 20% from the number of takers in June 2016. Perhaps this means more applicants this cycle and a more competitive cycle as a result in 2017-2018. It is just one of many exhibits, though.


I think that with the lifting of the LSAT retake limit, a lot of people may have opted to wait another cycle too. Also, it seems as though lawyers have been getting decent press since Trump was elected.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 4:31 pm
by proteinshake
checking in

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 8:17 pm
by rictheruler
If a school's median GPA went down, is it safe to say that the 25 and 75 probably went down as well? Or could it just mean the numbers are clustered differently?

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 10:24 pm
by Pneumonia
tag

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 12:29 am
by CheyenneGarrett17
Thanks y'all. Looking forward to obsessively refreshing this page for the next few weeks.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:24 am
by Chaimthegreat
Checking in!

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 7:05 am
by doggozeg
rictheruler wrote:If a school's median GPA went down, is it safe to say that the 25 and 75 probably went down as well? Or could it just mean the numbers are clustered differently?


It seems like the 25/75 would drop too (as with past experience), but I agree that it could just mean a tighter distribution. Unfortunately, median is not affected at all by distribution. Some schools seem to have long tails on the 25th percentiles because once they can hit their desired median, the half under the median can be anything and not affect the median. I don't think we will know the trend until a few schools put out numbers.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 9:29 am
by MikeSpivey
Just an fyi, but many schools announce their medians at orientation, too. It's not official, but it also would make zero sense for them to not announce their real numbers so it's pre-official. Report 'em here please!!

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:16 pm
by BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?)
Tag

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 1:24 pm
by twiix
tagging so I can make myself even more nervous for the 2021 cycle.

Re: CLASS OF 2020 MEDIANS (LSAT/GPA/CLASS SIZE)

Posted: Mon Aug 14, 2017 2:00 pm
by principalagent
Tag. Hoping for LSAT drops everywhere!