GWU vs. Florida Forum

[anonlaw2017]

So these are the two best schools that I've gotten into, got off both waitlists this week but I need to make a decision by the end of the week. I'm leaning towards George Washington over UF because its ranked higher and has more national prestige. But Florida is cheaper and I have some family down there so that could be fun. I'm pretty sure I should go to one of these, what do you guys think?

[waldorf]

Stats?

Career goals?

How will you be paying? Savings? Family assistance? All loans?

What's your total COA for each and how much is debt financed?

Where do you want to work? Both of these are regional schools.

[anonlaw2017]

Stats?

Career goals?

How will you be paying? Savings? Family assistance? All loans?

What's your total COA for each and how much is debt financed?

Where do you want to work? Both of these are regional schools.

I have a 3.52 GPA with a major in Legal Studies, and 159 LSAT. My dream job is to be a judge so I think I'd like to start either in big law or as a clerk. I didn't get any scholarships but I think I can finagle some stuff with my relatives to make it look like I'm a Florida resident to get in state tuition there, and I have about 30,000 that I got from my grandparents for graduating college. Besides that its loans.

I would like to work in NY and I have some connections so I think I can move there from either school, but since GWU has much better national prestige (almost Ivy) I think it would be easier there. Maybe later I could move to California or something but NY would be cool to start.

[waldorf]

Stats?

Career goals?

How will you be paying? Savings? Family assistance? All loans?

What's your total COA for each and how much is debt financed?

Where do you want to work? Both of these are regional schools.

I have a 3.52 GPA with a major in Legal Studies, and 159 LSAT. My dream job is to be a judge so I think I'd like to start either in big law or as a clerk. I didn't get any scholarships but I think I can finagle some stuff with my relatives to make it look like I'm a Florida resident to get in state tuition there, and I have about 30,000 that I got from my grandparents for graduating college. Besides that its loans.

I would like to work in NY and I have some connections so I think I can move there from either school, but since GWU has much better national prestige (almost Ivy) I think it would be easier there. Maybe later I could move to California or something but NY would be cool to start.

Just from taking a quick look at their websites, it looks like your total COA for GWU would be $305k and your COA for Florida would be about $174k. Subtracting 30k would mean that you're looking at:

GWU: $275k in debt (this is waaaaay too much, FYI)
Florida: $144k in debt

According to LST, you have a 16% chance of landing BL from Florida (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/florida/) and a 31% chance at GWU (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw). So, basically, that's too much debt for either school, and your chances of landing BL from either one are slim.

Retake the LSAT. Improving to a 165 is very doable and will open many more doors for you.

[anonlaw2017]

Stats?

Career goals?

How will you be paying? Savings? Family assistance? All loans?

What's your total COA for each and how much is debt financed?

Where do you want to work? Both of these are regional schools.

I have a 3.52 GPA with a major in Legal Studies, and 159 LSAT. My dream job is to be a judge so I think I'd like to start either in big law or as a clerk. I didn't get any scholarships but I think I can finagle some stuff with my relatives to make it look like I'm a Florida resident to get in state tuition there, and I have about 30,000 that I got from my grandparents for graduating college. Besides that its loans.

I would like to work in NY and I have some connections so I think I can move there from either school, but since GWU has much better national prestige (almost Ivy) I think it would be easier there. Maybe later I could move to California or something but NY would be cool to start.

Just from taking a quick look at their websites, it looks like your total COA for GWU would be $305k and your COA for Florida would be about $174k. Subtracting 30k would mean that you're looking at:

GWU: $275k in debt (this is waaaaay too much, FYI)
Florida: $144k in debt

According to LST, you have a 16% chance of landing BL from Florida (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/florida/) and a 31% chance at GWU (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw). So, basically, that's too much debt for either school, and your chances of landing BL from either one are slim.

Retake the LSAT. Improving to a 165 is very doable and will open many more doors for you.

Unfortunately I can't retake. Which of the 2 do you think I should go to? The big law stats for GWU is much higher plus my friend's dad said he'd be more likely to hire me if I went there (he's a senior associate at a big law firm in new york). Once I get big law it would only take a couple of years to pay off.

[Theory1195]

Stats?

Career goals?

How will you be paying? Savings? Family assistance? All loans?

What's your total COA for each and how much is debt financed?

Where do you want to work? Both of these are regional schools.

I have a 3.52 GPA with a major in Legal Studies, and 159 LSAT. My dream job is to be a judge so I think I'd like to start either in big law or as a clerk. I didn't get any scholarships but I think I can finagle some stuff with my relatives to make it look like I'm a Florida resident to get in state tuition there, and I have about 30,000 that I got from my grandparents for graduating college. Besides that its loans.

I would like to work in NY and I have some connections so I think I can move there from either school, but since GWU has much better national prestige (almost Ivy) I think it would be easier there. Maybe later I could move to California or something but NY would be cool to start.

Just from taking a quick look at their websites, it looks like your total COA for GWU would be $305k and your COA for Florida would be about $174k. Subtracting 30k would mean that you're looking at:

GWU: $275k in debt (this is waaaaay too much, FYI)
Florida: $144k in debt

According to LST, you have a 16% chance of landing BL from Florida (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/florida/) and a 31% chance at GWU (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw). So, basically, that's too much debt for either school, and your chances of landing BL from either one are slim.

Retake the LSAT. Improving to a 165 is very doable and will open many more doors for you.

Unfortunately I can't retake. Which of the 2 do you think I should go to? The big law stats for GWU is much higher plus my friend's dad said he'd be more likely to hire me if I went there (he's a senior associate at a big law firm in new york). Once I get big law it would only take a couple of years to pay off.

Well, you *could* retake the LSAT, I'm sure. I totally get that you want to get started (believe me, I do), but those are insanely high prices for schools that do not for SURE guarantee you your career goals. Even a few more points on the LSAT could get you more money at GW or get you into a better school with $$. Sure, GW BigLaw stats are higher for BigLaw than UF, but they aren't insanely high, either.

I think it's sincerely awesome that your friend's father agrees that GW is more prestigious than UF. That is fairly universal and agreed upon, and it's fair to say (depending on your market). I do, however, see this direct assumption that you are for sure getting BigLaw, and that you will be able to pay all that off. That would be reasonable if you for SURE knew you were getting it, but you don't. Even going to Georgetown doesn't guarantee you BigLaw. I'm sure you're very smart, and I'm sure you will do well in law school--but there is literally no way to know for sure that you are going to get a 160k starting salary. In the event that it doesn't happen, you'll be glad you took on substantially less debt.

I really think retaking the LSAT and getting a few more points would help. I sincerely do. I know I'm just a random on the internet, but I see some red flags here and wanted to make them known. Best of luck!!!

[lavarman84]

Just from taking a quick look at their websites, it looks like your total COA for GWU would be $305k and your COA for Florida would be about $174k. Subtracting 30k would mean that you're looking at:

GWU: $275k in debt (this is waaaaay too much, FYI)
Florida: $144k in debt

According to LST, you have a 16% chance of landing BL from Florida (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/florida/) and a 31% chance at GWU (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw). So, basically, that's too much debt for either school, and your chances of landing BL from either one are slim.

Retake the LSAT. Improving to a 165 is very doable and will open many more doors for you.

The COA at Florida seems very high unless you're expecting that OP will never get in-state tuition (which would be OP's fault).

[UVA2B]

How is your friend's dad only a senior associate in NYC? Second career fairly late in life after having kids?

Neither of these are good options for your goals, especially at these prices.

[waldorf]

Just from taking a quick look at their websites, it looks like your total COA for GWU would be $305k and your COA for Florida would be about $174k. Subtracting 30k would mean that you're looking at:

GWU: $275k in debt (this is waaaaay too much, FYI)
Florida: $144k in debt

According to LST, you have a 16% chance of landing BL from Florida (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/florida/) and a 31% chance at GWU (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw). So, basically, that's too much debt for either school, and your chances of landing BL from either one are slim.

Retake the LSAT. Improving to a 165 is very doable and will open many more doors for you.

The COA at Florida seems very high unless you're expecting that OP will never get in-state tuition (which would be OP's fault).

Yes, that's what I assumed

[lavarman84]

Just from taking a quick look at their websites, it looks like your total COA for GWU would be $305k and your COA for Florida would be about $174k. Subtracting 30k would mean that you're looking at:

GWU: $275k in debt (this is waaaaay too much, FYI)
Florida: $144k in debt

According to LST, you have a 16% chance of landing BL from Florida (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/florida/) and a 31% chance at GWU (https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw). So, basically, that's too much debt for either school, and your chances of landing BL from either one are slim.

Retake the LSAT. Improving to a 165 is very doable and will open many more doors for you.

The COA at Florida seems very high unless you're expecting that OP will never get in-state tuition (which would be OP's fault).

Yes, that's what I assumed

Even if OP doesn't get it as a 1L, OP can establish residency during that year and get it as a 2L and 3L.

[lavarman84]

How is your friend's dad only a senior associate in NYC? Second career fairly late in life after having kids?

Neither of these are good options for your goals, especially at these prices.

This is correct.

[cavalier1138]

1. You can retake. You can always retake.

2. You should retake.

3. If you don't want to retake, don't go to law school. Your goals are flat-out ridiculous at those schools for those prices.

[l3g@l33s3]

One thing to think about is the trend of the rankings. UF has made it clear they are putting substantial money toward increasing their ranking, and it is working. GW's ranking has gone down significantly over the past three years. That being said UF is unlikely to get you big law in new york. It most likely will result in an average to above average career in Florida. It is the best school in the Florida Market. In Florida it gets you instant respect. Now this doesn't help you get to your goals, but neither are likely to get you big law. GW is a regional school in DC. It is expensive and has a downward trend. I had to make the same choice and landed on FL with a substantial scholarship. If you have questions you can PM me. I have researched extensively and visited both schools.

[cavalier1138]

One thing to think about is the trend of the rankings.

The rest of your post is on point with regards to Florida's placement power in the Florida market. But this is categorically wrong.

UF trending up in the rankings is meaningless, because they're already the top Florida school. They're not going to become a school with national reach, much like GW isn't going to become a school with national reach. Their relative rankings in USNWR are meaningless, because they don't service the same region.

[l3g@l33s3]

One thing to think about is the trend of the rankings.

The rest of your post is on point with regards to Florida's placement power in the Florida market. But this is categorically wrong.

UF trending up in the rankings is meaningless, because they're already the top Florida school. They're not going to become a school with national reach, much like GW isn't going to become a school with national reach. Their relative rankings in USNWR are meaningless, because they don't service the same region.

Agree. Except higher ranking attracts better students, which makes the school better. I am not saying it will change the reach of either school. OP seems to place a lot of his decision on the rankings, so I just wanted to point out that in a few years they could be essentially tied or UF could be higher (based on trends) so OP shouldn't use that as his reasoning. Either way OP needs to retake or reevaluate his goals.

[silenttimer]

OP -- If you truly wants to become a judge then go to UF. Judges are elected in Florida, so you can throw your hat in some random county after establishing yourself as a lawyer for a few years. Good luck with!