2018 USNWR Rankings Forum

[wiz]

Sure but those aren't the ones with the gourmet restaurants on site and the sleeping pods.

I mean seriously lol at sleeping pods as a perk. If you aren't a firefighter or er doc working the overnight shift run don't walk from places that have sleeping areas on site.

Google is the company most well known for that, but Apple/Microsoft/Amazon don't go quite that far with the perks (with respect to sleeping pods) and pay comparable salaries. Some of the comp packages I cited above weren't actually from Google.

Obviously makes you question what's a benefit and what is a "benefit," but I was mainly looking at comp since we were assessing undergrad outcomes. I'd still be surprised to see someone make the case that the average big tech company is as demanding from an hours/lifestyle standpoint as the average biglaw firm (or bulge bracket or management consulting firm).

[wiz]

Kinda unrelated, but I didn't realize that quiet rooms and showers in law firm offices were a thing while I was in law school.

[Hikikomorist]

Kinda unrelated, but I didn't realize that quiet rooms and showers in law firm offices were a thing while I was in law school.

But they probably wouldn't let you live there, right?

[wiz]

Kinda unrelated, but I didn't realize that quiet rooms and showers in law firm offices were a thing while I was in law school.

But they probably wouldn't let you live there, right?

Not sure, that might be a good question for you to ask during your S&C CB.

[Tiago Splitter]

Kinda unrelated, but I didn't realize that quiet rooms and showers in law firm offices were a thing while I was in law school.

But they probably wouldn't let you live there, right?

Don't give them any ideas.

[jbagelboy]

LinkedIn should publish UG and graduate rankings.

Why is Pomona so much better than Harvey Mudd and Claremont McKenna? They all have high SAT scores, low acceptance rates, and small class sizes, but obviously there's something going on with yield.

Yeah, I almost mentioned earlier that it's hard to exclude those two schools. I think Pomona is the best of the three, which would explain the differences in yield. Harvey Mudd is also more of a specialized school, like MIT/Caltech. This also cuts against the WASP narrative, if Pomona faces substantial competition with schools whose numbers are on par with Amherst's.

I was just thinking about that. So East Coast Williams/Amherst/Swarthmore vs. West Coast Pomona/Harvey Mudd/Claremont McKenna.

I think I know people who went to the West Coast LACs from high school but wasn't outwardly aspie enough to ask where else they got in.

Isn't WAS more of an HSW (GSB/HBS 1a, Wharton 1b) situation, while PHC is more analogous to YHS (YLS 1a, SLS/HLS 1b)?

WAS is probably closer to an HSW than a YHS, but it's almost seems more like having 1a, 1b, and 1c. I'd actually defer to Nony's take here, though.

WASP is more like HYPS. The grad school comparisons are weird

[rpupkin]

LOL @ Duke. As we've clearly established in this thread, most of Duke's "prestige" lies the strength of its NCAA basketball program. Tonight, Duke lost to an obscure program that had never before reached the sweet 16. Duke has become a national joke. Just pathetic.

[wiz]

Tbf, we did those rankings before Duke lost to South Carolina tonight.

We should see revised rankings tomorrow morning.

[rpupkin]

Tbf, we did those rankings before Duke lost to South Carolina tonight.

We should see revised rankings tomorrow morning.

Fair.

[slurp]

Agreed. Duke has to be tier 5-6 in lay prestige, especially after that huge L they took today in men's basketball - duke's only claim to fame

[calpolisci2016]

.

[michlaw]

LOL @ Duke. As we've clearly established in this thread, most of Duke's "prestige" lies the strength of its NCAA basketball program. Tonight, Duke lost to an obscure program that had never before reached the sweet 16. Duke has become a national joke. Just pathetic.

Michigan in the sweet 16. Go Blue.

[Veil of Ignorance]

.

[rpupkin]

If you want lay prestige where people's eyes light up when you talk about your background, join the military. Guaranteed.

(can't crack 175 on LSAT; joins army)

[Moneytrees]

So why is GULC's endowment so low? And is that why they keep taking on laughably large incoming classes/are so stingy with scholarship money?

[RedPurpleBlue]

So why is GULC's endowment so low? And is that why they keep taking on laughably large incoming classes/are so stingy with scholarship money?

Yes, their class sizes are incredibly large, because the law school needs the resources, which they can't get from their small endowment. This forces them to lower their endowment per student to meet their annual budgetary costs. If GULC alumni gave to the school's endowment more, it would probably help solve the problem.

"Our T14 peer law schools all have dramatically larger endowments per student than we do. To compete with them in offering the financial aid students need, we depend on the annual support of alumni." - GULC Dean and Executive Vice President William M Treanor (2015)

[BigZuck]

Gonna be hard for GULCers to well endow their school considering their measly Of Counsel salaries AT BEST.

Meanwhile, UT alums count FAT STACKS as they rapidly rise up through the partnership ranks.

GULC will be barely hanging on as a T30 school before we know it.

#hookem

[wiz]

Gonna be hard for GULCers to well endow their school considering their measly Of Counsel salaries AT BEST.

Meanwhile, UT alums count FAT STACKS as they rapidly rise up through the partnership ranks.

GULC will be barely hanging on as a T30 school before we know it.

#hookem

I've heard of multiple GULC associates getting demoted to STAFF ATTORNEY after the recent rankings release.

[Pomeranian]

So why is GULC's endowment so low? And is that why they keep taking on laughably large incoming classes/are so stingy with scholarship money?

It's their crooked scheme to stay afloat, but the ship is starting to sink.

[zot1]

Gonna be hard for GULCers to well endow their school considering their measly Of Counsel salaries AT BEST.

Meanwhile, UT alums count FAT STACKS as they rapidly rise up through the partnership ranks.

GULC will be barely hanging on as a T30 school before we know it.

#hookem

I've heard of multiple GULC associates getting demoted to STAFF ATTORNEY after the recent rankings release.

Savage.

[BigZuck]

Gonna be hard for GULCers to well endow their school considering their measly Of Counsel salaries AT BEST.

Meanwhile, UT alums count FAT STACKS as they rapidly rise up through the partnership ranks.

GULC will be barely hanging on as a T30 school before we know it.

#hookem

I've heard of multiple GULC associates getting demoted to STAFF ATTORNEY after the recent rankings release.

If by STAFF ATTORNEY you mean FORCED TO GO BACK AND GET A (NYU/UF) TAX LLM then I'VE HEARD THAT TOO.

[whysooseriousbiglaw]

Also not sure T14/M7/top med schools are comparable.

Getting into almost any medical school is an accomplishment, given the small class sizes, the (relatively) few number of programs, the competitiveness of admissions, and the strong matching process.

I'm sure all med schools have pretty good outcomes, but are they all as prestigious/do they attract the same quality of applicants as M7/T13 schools? Maybe it doesn't matter, but I'm reluctant to congratulate those who scrape by into the least selective med schools, whatever those are.

Probs right about not being as prestigious, but getting in is more difficult because of the small class sizes. I would assume that they attract the same quality of applicants (how would you quantify that aside from looking at earlier inputs like SAT scores?), if not higher, so the cutoff should at least extend further than 13 schools. If anything, the GPA floors are significantly higher and acceptance rates significantly lower.

I also feel like med school in general is more prestigious, though that's a personal preference.

Sort of chiming in randomly here.

Your UG rankings were pretty on point, IMO.

I would say that most people view med school as more prestigious than both law school and business school even though I think the students have probably similar early academic indicators.

With med school, it is a bit challenging. AFAIK, landing residencies largely depends on GPA and STEP scores more-so than what specific med school you went to, and your residency is far more important than the med school you attend.

Yeah, I agree that med schools are a lot harder to compare, and I still think that getting into virtually any MD program gives you a strong chance at a good outcome. Med schools do a much better job of limiting the applicant pool at the point of entry, so most of the culling is already done pre-matriculation. The law school herd isn't really culled until OCI.

Hikko seems more concerned with inputs, but I don't really see a clear M7 or T13 cutoff like there is with law schools.

Even good DO programs give you a strong chance at a good outcome AFAIK. I don't really see a clear cutoff too, and I think it's complicated because residencies are far more important for determining outcome and, from what I've read, I don't think the school matters all that much for that purpose.

IIRC, you get residencies from med schools unless you target residencies way too narrowly. A lot of brilliant kids miss med school for the same reason. The "worst" med school outcomes still pays $150-$180k with basic guaranteed job security I think.

edit: I guess healthcare though has some general uncertainty. Then again, all of the kids I know who are wealthiest have parents that did obscure shit. One owns a dry cleaning / laundry company that supplies the major hospitals in the area. One owns ice boxes outside of 7/11. Nothing beats that suds and cold water money.

Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point below. As a non-URM (and more specifically, white person), get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal. Lots of people also game admissions by doing prerequisites in a post-baccalaureate, which pretty much hands out As like candy. You're pretty much buying a 4.0 from a post-bac program.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

If you want to get rich, open a business doing whatever....the richest people I know are also entrepreneurs that do random shit or are contractors or whatever. If you want to make a good living while working for someone else, do tech/CS/programming.

Professional school is a rip off (and for the most part, doesn't pay off monetarily) anymore. The opportunity cost and cost of education are just way too high.

[wiz]

Also not sure T14/M7/top med schools are comparable.

Getting into almost any medical school is an accomplishment, given the small class sizes, the (relatively) few number of programs, the competitiveness of admissions, and the strong matching process.

I'm sure all med schools have pretty good outcomes, but are they all as prestigious/do they attract the same quality of applicants as M7/T13 schools? Maybe it doesn't matter, but I'm reluctant to congratulate those who scrape by into the least selective med schools, whatever those are.

Probs right about not being as prestigious, but getting in is more difficult because of the small class sizes. I would assume that they attract the same quality of applicants (how would you quantify that aside from looking at earlier inputs like SAT scores?), if not higher, so the cutoff should at least extend further than 13 schools. If anything, the GPA floors are significantly higher and acceptance rates significantly lower.

I also feel like med school in general is more prestigious, though that's a personal preference.

Sort of chiming in randomly here.

Your UG rankings were pretty on point, IMO.

I would say that most people view med school as more prestigious than both law school and business school even though I think the students have probably similar early academic indicators.

With med school, it is a bit challenging. AFAIK, landing residencies largely depends on GPA and STEP scores more-so than what specific med school you went to, and your residency is far more important than the med school you attend.

Yeah, I agree that med schools are a lot harder to compare, and I still think that getting into virtually any MD program gives you a strong chance at a good outcome. Med schools do a much better job of limiting the applicant pool at the point of entry, so most of the culling is already done pre-matriculation. The law school herd isn't really culled until OCI.

Hikko seems more concerned with inputs, but I don't really see a clear M7 or T13 cutoff like there is with law schools.

Even good DO programs give you a strong chance at a good outcome AFAIK. I don't really see a clear cutoff too, and I think it's complicated because residencies are far more important for determining outcome and, from what I've read, I don't think the school matters all that much for that purpose.

IIRC, you get residencies from med schools unless you target residencies way too narrowly. A lot of brilliant kids miss med school for the same reason. The "worst" med school outcomes still pays $150-$180k with basic guaranteed job security I think.

edit: I guess healthcare though has some general uncertainty. Then again, all of the kids I know who are wealthiest have parents that did obscure shit. One owns a dry cleaning / laundry company that supplies the major hospitals in the area. One owns ice boxes outside of 7/11. Nothing beats that suds and cold water money.

Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.

[wiz]

Also, look at med school acceptance rates: https://www.usnews.com/education/best-g ... ance-rates

[whysooseriousbiglaw]

Any random med school program is not nearly as hard as people think to get in......case in point. As a non-URM, get an 80th percentile MCAT score and a non-shitty GPA and you have good odds to get in somewhere. Not all med schools are created equal.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321520/da ... ea24-5.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321518/da ... ea24-4.pdf
https://www.aamc.org/download/321516/da ... ea24-3.pdf

That's a hell of a lot harder than law school.

You have an 18% chance of getting accepted into any med school if you have an average MCAT (22% chance if you have an average MCAT and 3.6+ GPA).

19% of applicants get shut out completely with a 97th+ percentile MCAT, 27% get shut out with a 91st+ percentile MCAT, and it's basically a 50/50 chance of getting into med school at the 80th percentile.

Getting shut out of law school completely with a 170 (97th percentile) is unheard of.

Who the hell attends non T-13 law schools these days? I thought the discussion was top law schools versus med school?

No offense, but I bet a person who can score a high enough LSAT on average to get into a T-13 can do well enough to get into multiple MD programs. Just do a "hand out As like candy" post-bac and you're set.