Quebec Cegep grades at the LSAC? Forum

[Harry_Pluxen]

Hey all,

Heres some background:

Everyone in the Canadian Province of Quebec must attend something called CEGEP for 2 years after high school before attending university. High school in Quebec ends after grade 11 and CEGEP functions as grade 12 + freshman year of university. It functions as a mid-point between HS and undergrad. Afterwards, a bachelor degree in Quebec, for Quebec residents is only 3 years as opposed to 4. This is due to the fact that Quebec residents who attend CEGEP get 30 credits upon attending university, essentially covering a years worth of credits in a bachelor degree.

My question is: Does the LSAC (& American Law schools for that matter) require grades from CEGEP when you apply? This might seem like a simple question, but I have gotten different answers from different schools. GULC says no, Northwestern says yes. I called the LSAC and they also said NO firmly. But I just spoke with the president of a major test prep company & he said that he always sees students from Quebec submit their cegep grades to American law schools. I'm very confused.

The problem is that CEGEP grades are not on a 4.0 scale. You get a % grade out of 100, which is then compared to the grades of all students in your class & then compared again to all students taking the same class throughout the entire province during the same semester. This is called an R score. It is effectively a complicated Z score...and the only place that uses it in the entire world (from what I know) is Quebec. I have heard of problems when this gets converted to a LSAC GPA. For example, anything between 80-90% is considered a 3.0, whereas it should actually be a 3.7-4.0/4.0

I'll be calling the LSAC for a confirmation, but if there is anyone out there with prior experience, please help.

Thanks.

[Gray]

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[Harry_Pluxen]

There are maybe like 3 Quebeckers on TLS, so... hey!

I think if LSAC said no firmly, that's all you need to know. If CEGEP grades are not calculated as part of your LSAC GPA, then it won't matter to the schools you apply to. But yeah, call to confirm with LSAC to be 100% sure. Assuming it's not part of LSAC GPA calculations, the only question is if you need to include it in the portion of applications that asks for past educational institutions, and that varies from school to school. I think a few even ask for high school details.

I'm actually really interested in what the official answer is, just because CEGEP is more or less unique in North America. I went to an Ontario high school though, so I haven't gone through this process and can't help too much.

And a McGill student at that! Long live the reedmen/martlets/redbirds/wtv our sports team is called.

Im probably going to call them at some point tomorrow to verify this for the second time. I'll see if I can get in touch with a senior person at the LSAC who has more knowledge this time. I'll post their response here. The reason I am concerned is that I just spoke to Sean O'Connor, who writes for forbes, CNN money & owns stratus prep & he said he's never seen a QC student not submit cegep grades.

By the way, as a Canadian student, where are you applying if I may ask? USA schools I take it?

Anyone else want to add their two cents? Any LSAC people out there?

[Gray]

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[Harry_Pluxen]

***Update***

Spoke with a few people at the LSAC (receptionist, supervisor & transcript department people). They were running all over the place for me this morning and claim they had never heard of CEGEP prior to my call today. They advised me to send my CEGEP grades into them anyways and that they would check to make sure that it was relevant to law school admissions and that they were able to convert it properly over to a 4.0 system.

My main concern is that because Quebec CEGEPs use the r score system, that the % part of the grade will act against my undergrad GPA. For example, it is possible, as you know, to obtain a 30+ r score, which is very good, with like a 68% if the class average is in the low 50% and a shitty one if you have an 92% to a 91% class average if the standard deviation is all over the place.

I just verified with my cegep that they do in fact ALWAYS send their transcripts to the LSAC for students who are applying to USA law schools. Additionally, they send a disclaimer about the r score...I hope this works out well...


What us school are you looking at, smccgrey?

[Harry_Pluxen]

***Second update***

LSAC called me back and said they will most likely only take the second year grades from cegep, since that would have been "freshman" year at regular university.

More details to come when they are sent in a processed.

[Harry_Pluxen]

Also,

Does anyone think this is an appropriate topic for an addendum? Cegeps will send a "disclaimer" with their grades to the LSAC. But I think it might be beneficial to write an addendum to explain.

Thoughts? lol Any quebecers want to give this a shot?

[meghanalbert23]

Hi what ended up happening? I am petrified my cegep grades will be included and will bring down my GPA that I worked so hard to get high

[BrainsyK]

Hi what ended up happening? I am petrified my cegep grades will be included and will bring down my GPA that I worked so hard to get high

Whatever courses were put on your transcript in place of your U0 year will most likely be converted using this chart:

http://www.lsac.org/jd/applying-to-law- ... rade-table

That is super bad news. I have heard of people who got the issuing institution to call LSAC and say that the converted LSAC GPAs are not reflective of performance and LSAC changing them, but have never seen confirmation of that. If you're still in school and really care, tell McGill to drop the credits in your U0 year and just do another 30 credits. For some people, it could make the difference between like 3.0 to a 3.5 etc. Good luck!

[njdevils2626]

If it helps assuage you a little bit, back when I was applying I sent in my CEGEP transcript to LSAC and it did not affect my LSAC GPA

[meghanalbert23]

Hi, so how do I know which credits were transferred from Cegep to Concordia? Also, how did it not affect your GPA? Were the marks just similar or is it only because they count few classes? How do I get Concordia to cancel my cegep grades?