I want to be a prosecutor Forum

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Mercat

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by Mercat » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:03 am

We're talking about being a federal prosecutor, right? It's not that hard to become an ADA in Los Angeles, is it?

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cavalier1138

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by cavalier1138 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:38 am

Mercat wrote:We're talking about being a federal prosecutor, right? It's not that hard to become an ADA in Los Angeles, is it?
I don't know the specifics of the LA office, but major-market DA offices are usually very competitive. It's not necessarily a matter of school pedigree (although Manhattan is pretty selective in that area). There are just way more applicants for these positions than there are open slots, and it would be a mistake to classify any major DA office as "not that hard" to get into.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by nixy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 8:57 am

I've definitely seen anecdotes here about LA being particularly difficult to get because they didn't get funding for new hires very often. Interning there seemed to be key, although not all interns who wanted permanent jobs could get them. (In part, IIRC California actually pays decently so it makes competition tougher.) Can't confirm this from personal experience, though.

(Related but not exactly what you're asking: I think hiring for ADAs and federal prosecutors looks different. ADA = intern in ADA offices in school, get time in court as a student attorney, get a lot of practice experience; grades and school can be important but usually less so than experience. AUSA = it's helpful to intern there during school, but they often either hire out of biglaw, so you need grades and pedigree, or they hire state prosecutors with experience. Also you can't get hired as an AUSA out of school - even if you're hired through the honors program you usually need a clerkship, which goes to grades/pedigree again. So ADA hiring may not depend as much on grades, more on things you feel you have more control over, but it's still not necessarily *easy* to get.)

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by objctnyrhnr » Thu Feb 14, 2019 9:55 am

rndmcmx wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:
rndmcmx wrote:
Mce252 wrote:
CactusPuppy wrote:I'm sorry but ruining people's lives for smoking weed is not noble. USA has some of the most unjust criminal statutes in the industrialized world, and there is nothing noble about seeking the max for violation of mostly stupid and Constitutionally repugnant laws.
Do you always carry a sign that reads "I'm an idiot"? You obviously haven't visited the county jails in New York, Chicago, Atlanta, Houston, or New Orleans recently. Have you ever even looked at crime statistics?

Getting arrested for smoking weed does not ruin anyone's life in the United States. It's a class C misdemeanor in many jurisidictions and carries a penalty similar to that of a traffic violation.

You must be an occupy person.
It has been how many years since you wrote this? I doubt when you wrote your comment, you have not stepped inside a county jail either, and bet you have yet to stand in one still. You just stand on the court lobby floor, completely disregarding the horrid and putrid and dungeon-like floors under your feet where all the criminals rot in mass holding cells. Those people are temporarily awaiting for your fine words to enable more torture and rot onto their lives. You ruin many families, and the few real criminals you have punished mean nothing compared to the countless hardships and afflictions and torments you brought onto whole community-worths of citizens. Prosecuting people is a job that is necessary. However, you and I very well know that you do not carry a sign that reads 'I am an idiot.' You and your 7+ years of post-graduate intelligence more than understand the harm you cause.
You’re right. The domestic batterers should continue to be free to abuse those who are even more disempowered and disenphransized than they are, without consequence. The drunk drivers should be free to continue to drink and drive, thereby risking harm to everybody around them. The sexual deviants who get drunk and grab every pretty girl they can, late at night while the girls are going home from work, should continue to be free to do so absent threat of consequence.

It’s too bad that you are not tzar of the world, you absolute and unbelievable moron.

Prosecution isn’t perfect anywhere, but to harbor such ridiculously broad animosity towards those who do a job—that is so exceedingly and obviously objectively important in order to literally facilitate society as we know it—is pathetically stupid.
You speak of the few real criminals that should be prosecuted. I speak of the millions (let me repeat: MILLIONS: 1,000 times 1,000 times another magnitude) of people and their families you damage. Every father, young adult, and mother that stands before a District Attorney and her / his judge face a punishment that will ruin their life, their family's life, and another future. Again, this is the fate of millions. I assume we speak on the same intelligence here. No one here is a moron. Millions of people. You claim real sex offenders, dead-beat dads, drunk murderers. Those are thousands. The families of the people you prosecute are millions. Can you do the ratio of people relieved versus people damaged? Yes. Millions. not thousands. Millions. Don't sit behind the backing of your whole court staff and act like you do not hurt people. Do not sit behind the criminal court system and call yourself only a just and small hero 'doing their job.' You are a small hero among thousands. You are disgusting to millions. You and your people save thousands of people from future harm, but you and your people hurt millions in the process.
Okay you lunatic. First off, you have been warned about spitting such emotionally charged and unsubstantiated nonsense indiscriminately at an entire category of public servants, in the context of a thread about people who have a specific post-law school goal that they want to achieve. That said, I approved your post this time...if for nothing else, than maybe to show aspiring prosecutors the kind of ridiculous mindsets that they might, occasionally find themselves up against in practice.

Second while acknowledging that it’s theoretically on the other end of the political spectrum, your unsubstantiated ravings about numbers and statistics with no source cites truly reeks of something that mr trump would say (ie millions of rapists coming over Mexican border, absent substantiation). Do you see the similarities?

Third, so it’s your position that when a person blows a .28 while driving with a 3 year old in the backseat and gets the statutory minimum penalty, it’s the PROSECUTOR’s fault that the 3 year old won’t see their dad for 3-6 months depending on the state? It’s your position that when some asshole beats the hell out of his wife for the 19th time and gets sentenced to 6 months in jail, it’s the PROSECUTOR’s fault that his son’s father will now have a criminal record that might entail future employment consequences?

Do you see how ridiculous you sound? How about attributing some modicum Of accountability to these humans with free will who make horrific choices that necessarily harm others? and if you really want to point fingers (not that it’s warranted), why not point the fingers at the legislature who made drunk driving or domestic abuse illegal to begin with? If you want anarchy, maybe you should go to the source?

Fourth and finally, you made at least one other bad assumption (shocker). I am not a prosecutor. I am in biglaw.

If this is how your really think and talk in the real world, you need to check yourself if you ever want to succeed in this field.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by nixy » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:45 am

Look, you said this earlier:
rndmcmx wrote:Prosecuting people is a job that is necessary.
So under what circumstances do you expect this job to take place?

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cavalier1138

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by cavalier1138 » Thu Feb 14, 2019 10:53 am

rndmcmx wrote:You speak of the few real criminals that should be prosecuted.
Here are the real stats (from a reform project): https://www.prisonpolicy.org/reports/pie2018.html

Even being exceedingly generous to your position (i.e. ignoring the massive number of people in the "drug" category who were not just random pot-smokers), you're grossly misinformed about the numbers.

No one is saying that the criminal justice system is perfect, that every law is just, or that racial inequities in enforcement don't exist. But you're completely deluded if you think that most convicted criminals didn't commit any "real" crimes. There are lots of excellent points to argue in favor of prison reform, bail reform, sentencing reform, etc. You just haven't made any of them.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by Bingo_Bongo » Thu Feb 14, 2019 5:36 pm

Mercat wrote:We're talking about being a federal prosecutor, right? It's not that hard to become an ADA in Los Angeles, is it?
Nope. We're talking it's really competitive to be a Deputy District Attorney in LA. More so than big law.

There' are a lot more big law SA positions open than Deputy DA positions in the Los Angeles market.

The misconception of it being "easy" to become a prosecutor comes from the way that DA Offices do their hiring. What happens is attorneys who don't know better see plenty of Deputy DAs who graduated middle of their class at third-tier schools and assume that means anyone with a pulse can be come one, since the assumption is that everyone must hire the weird way big law does (meaning looking only at academics -- the prestige of the school + class rank).

The problem with that thinking is that DA Offices don't hire that way, they hire holistically. Hiring panels at DA Offices especially seek candidates who can get up and deliver a killer closing argument, and have existing courtroom experience. Those two things factor into hiring way more than academics do.

When you go in to interview for a prosecution job, they'll give you a sample police report, and give you about fifteen to twenty minutes to come up with an opening statement or closing argument. They'll then bring you in front of the hiring panel and expect you to deliver the argument in a convincing and compelling manner that would move a jury, and have everything comply with the California Evidence Code (they'll give you facts in the police report that would be inadmissible and expect you not to argue them). It's sort of like an audition/evidence test hybrid, and that opening/closing can be weighted as much as 50% of the total score.

You can be top of your class at a T13, the Editor in Chief of your school's law journal, with a US Supreme Court clerkship, but if you can't speak well in front of groups, forget it. The guy who graduated middle of class at a third-tier school, but was a theatre major in his undergrad, is getting hired over you. Academics are but one factor in criminal law hiring. At the end of the day, the fact that you went to Yale isn't going to make a jury more likely to convict someone. I'm not saying academics aren't factored into the hiring decision, but they're but one factor.

Believe me, there are plenty of HYS grads who don't even get granted screening interviews because don't have any prior criminal law experience listed on their resume.

rndmcmx

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by rndmcmx » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:49 pm

No one here is a lunatic, or any other "emotionally charged and unsubstantiated nonsense" you may call me. You place hypocritically empty facts, charged stories, and political digressions to the point that you spew vulgarities. I don't care about your political leanings. I don't care about political leanings regardless. Instead of coming here to reply immediately, I looked at your point, and even clicked on your buddy's citation and took my day's time to read it, analyze it, absorb it, all your buddy's (not empty) facts. I've read it multiple times throughout the time-span since your half-cocked 5 AM reply. However, a quick google search of the US criminal system reveals countless other sources that just make his or your word sound ignorant. I pulled this one off the very beginning of the list. "https://youth.gov/youth-topics/juvenile ... ice-system" This index that Google extends only touches the tip of the iceberg where as your people can pull out the athenaeums of court cases you and your predecessors have hidden behind every other court wall. You can take You studied criminology, so you know where the United States criminal justice system is wrong."

I do not care whether you are a big law attorney, or a DA. You studied and devoted your life up to this point in this career and are anything but stupid. You and I and everyone else reading this knows I am trying to point out the clear damage your people have done to common folk. I can go preach to the choir, but that does nothing when you, or your appointed police / Sheriff's detective can apprehend me or anyone else for "contempt of court"

I can go petition and involve myself in an activist rally against the harsh punishments you put myriads of people through. That changes slim to nothing when you and your people hold every single punishment in the Bible-sized penal book against a commons folk when I have maybe, hopefully, the very so very unlikely chance to live long enough and hard enough to, by chance, maybe possibly change one clause in that book.


In respect for you, however, I thank you that you took the second thought and at least let my post stand here among all your people.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by rndmcmx » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:54 pm

nixy wrote:Look, you said this earlier:
rndmcmx wrote:Prosecuting people is a job that is necessary.
So under what circumstances do you expect this job to take place?
When it really is necessary and only up to necessary for public health and public safety. Not for the satisfaction of the victim. Not for revenge. Not for retribution. Not for punishment. Not for the satisfaction of the court or for the public. For public health and public safety only.

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rndmcmx

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by rndmcmx » Sun Feb 24, 2019 8:57 pm

CactusPuppy wrote:Wanting to be an American prosecutor is a pretty screwed up life goal.
I agree with you. I do not agree with those who still believe being in American prosecutor is not a screwed up life goal.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by BobLoblaw18 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:02 am

rndmcmx wrote:
CactusPuppy wrote:Wanting to be an American prosecutor is a pretty screwed up life goal.
I agree with you. I do not agree with those who still believe being in American prosecutor is not a screwed up life goal.
Why? Prosecutorial discretion is an incredibly powerful thing. Even if we indulge your own logic about prosecution, shouldn't you want to be a prosecutor so that you can make sure all these people you think shouldn't be prosecuted don't get prosecuted? Shouldn't you encourage any and all like-minded friends to do the same? Seriously, this is the most mind-boggling part of your posturing to me: if you think the prosecutorial system is so broken, unless you think every jurisdiction in the US is going to fire all their prosecutors and open all their jail cell doors tomorrow (which I'm assuming you don't), why not be the world's most lenient prosecutor and make the world what you would perceive to be a better place instead of yelling at people on the internet?

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cavalier1138

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon Feb 25, 2019 6:33 am

rndmcmx wrote:No one here is a lunatic, or any other "emotionally charged and unsubstantiated nonsense" you may call me.
You don't really help your cause when you use that sentence as a launching point for a completely incoherent rant...

nixy

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by nixy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 7:40 am

rndmcmx wrote:
nixy wrote:Look, you said this earlier:
rndmcmx wrote:Prosecuting people is a job that is necessary.
So under what circumstances do you expect this job to take place?
When it really is necessary and only up to necessary for public health and public safety. Not for the satisfaction of the victim. Not for revenge. Not for retribution. Not for punishment. Not for the satisfaction of the court or for the public. For public health and public safety only.
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andythefir

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by andythefir » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:30 pm

This thread is baffling to me. I’m a state prosecutor, and unless you insist on LA or Manhattan, they’re really easy jobs to get. One office I worked in recruited out of Cooley because no one else wanted the job.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by nixy » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:57 pm

andythefir wrote:This thread is baffling to me. I’m a state prosecutor, and unless you insist on LA or Manhattan, they’re really easy jobs to get. One office I worked in recruited out of Cooley because no one else wanted the job.
I think this varies more than LA/Manhattan vs. everywhere else.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by QContinuum » Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:59 pm

andythefir wrote:This thread is baffling to me. I’m a state prosecutor, and unless you insist on LA or Manhattan, they’re really easy jobs to get. One office I worked in recruited out of Cooley because no one else wanted the job.
I think the "unless you insist on LA or Manhattan" qualifier is the key thing here. nixy, Mercat and Bingo_Bongo were all talking about positions in LA.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by rndmcmx » Tue Feb 26, 2019 12:25 pm

I thought about it and that would be awesome, but I don't want to be a DA. I want to he a school psychologist / counselor / social worker and keep the children and families and young adults away from the courts. The courts ruin the futures of families and people. Most victims, no matter how vengeful or retributed they are, are never going to be satisfied. The only victims who get relief from this are the ones who forgive their harmer,, which is very very few, and even fewer with all the prosecutors itching to satisfy their pride / purpose by winning cases (and damning their own locals in the process). All courts do is double the amount of victims by punishing. As kind as you are here with me on the forums, your job is doesn't change. Your job is to decide how to punish people. Even if I did sit side by side with you to become a DA, I would quickly get fired for allowing so many families off the hook out of empathy.

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cavalier1138

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:18 pm

rndmcmx wrote:Your job is to decide how to punish people.
That's the judge, champ.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by rndmcmx » Tue Feb 26, 2019 2:58 pm

Well, yes. You are not wrong: the judge approves your offer, but you, as DA, put in the offer for the plea deal in the first place. There is few times where cases like this go to trial (and if guilty punished by the judge instead) because of fear of much heavier charges. At the end, you make the offer with approval by your chief and then the prosecutor gets punished. The defendant has barely any choice but to accept your plea. If the defendant does not accept your offer, extensions only prolong the pretrial so long before the judge can offer the ultimatum
of a trial (and sentencing up to the fullest extent of the law by the judge instead) or the defendant succumb to your plea (which you have you no obligation to mitigate the plea deal or dismiss the case)

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by objctnyrhnr » Tue Feb 26, 2019 3:26 pm

rndmcmx wrote:Well, yes. You are not wrong: the judge approves your offer, but you, as DA, put in the offer for the plea deal in the first place. There is few times where cases like this go to trial (and if guilty punished by the judge instead) because of fear of much heavier charges. At the end, you make the offer with approval by your chief and then the prosecutor gets punished. The defendant has barely any choice but to accept your plea. If the defendant does not accept your offer, extensions only prolong the pretrial so long before the judge can offer the ultimatum
of a trial (and sentencing up to the fullest extent of the law by the judge instead) or the defendant succumb to your plea (which you have you no obligation to mitigate the plea deal or dismiss the case)
Who is filling your head with this absolute nonsense? You are so comically misinformed about...pretty much everything you say.

In a scenario without a mandatory minimum (picture the type of relatively lower level stuff that I think you’re rants are referring to), nobody has to accept the prosecutor’s offer to plead guilty. The judge and the defendant choose the outcome. In many jurisdictions for many crimes without mandmins, that outcome could literally be one day of probation if the judge so chooses.

A defendant can enter a defense-capped plea on any day he chooses and he can pull it back if he doesnt like the result, as in what the judge would sentence him to if he pled on that day.

If it’s that process that you disagree with (or the results), you animosity should be aimed towards the judge. If it’s mandmins you have a problem with, your animosity should be aimed at the state legislative branch.

Either way, harboring all this animosity towards the notion of a prosecutor—for the reasons you state—is incredibly naive at absolute best.

As another poster said earlier, there are some valid points to be made, generally speaking, on the side of criminal justice reform. You and your drastically misinformed, inexperienced, and naive self just haven’t made any of them.

So I ask again, where did you learn what you described above regarding the plea process?

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by rndmcmx » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:04 pm

I learned it from months of observing in the courts myself. Again, it is the prosecutor (DA) who makes the plea with the help of her/his whole crew of DA staff. The judge is just a referee that approves this plea. The mandatory minimums are a separate factor that are set by legislation. However, mandatory minimums are also controlled by the courts in actual, real practice. If that were true that plea deals can be jumped back into as if the trial never started, then everyone and their defense lawyers would be jumping in on it. In reality, that doesn't happen. In fact, over 90/100 of cases end in a plea.

The judges are not the actual problem, and legislation's biased statutes are near impossible to change. However, the critical statute pressers and penal code enforcers are every other DA that sits on the untouchable side of the courtroom. They have the critical choice of applying the law, or using common sense / common law that they have formed in their 30+ years of living on this Earth with their next docket number of a person.

On the contrary of what you say, I am not naive. Ignoring the truth behind what actually happens in courts is an insult to everyone outside your field and job. The insult is the least of the problem. Your damage committed as a prosecutor is.

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nixy

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by nixy » Tue Feb 26, 2019 4:55 pm

I mean, defense attorneys negotiate pleas, and courts can reject pleas if they don’t think they fit the circumstances.

Also if you’re observing what happens in court you don’t actually know the facts behind the agreements in the cases, do you? Like you don’t know what evidence the prosecution has. If your issue is with the laws, then your target shouldn’t be the prosecutor.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by objctnyrhnr » Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:16 pm

rndmcmx wrote:I learned it from months of observing in the courts myself. Again, it is the prosecutor (DA) who makes the plea with the help of her/his whole crew of DA staff. The judge is just a referee that approves this plea. The mandatory minimums are a separate factor that are set by legislation. However, mandatory minimums are also controlled by the courts in actual, real practice. If that were true that plea deals can be jumped back into as if the trial never started, then everyone and their defense lawyers would be jumping in on it. In reality, that doesn't happen. In fact, over 90/100 of cases end in a plea.

The judges are not the actual problem, and legislation's biased statutes are near impossible to change. However, the critical statute pressers and penal code enforcers are every other DA that sits on the untouchable side of the courtroom. They have the critical choice of applying the law, or using common sense / common law that they have formed in their 30+ years of living on this Earth with their next docket number of a person.

On the contrary of what you say, I am not naive. Ignoring the truth behind what actually happens in courts is an insult to everyone outside your field and job. The insult is the least of the problem. Your damage committed as a prosecutor is.
Wrong again.

Prosecutor signs a plea sheet, yes. But absent concessions from the charges crimes (either dropping charges or de-aggravating them), the prosecutor is only making a request. That’s why the prosecutor argues in favor of his or her request—because (absent concessions) there is no law that actually binds the court or the defendant to what the prosecutor requests.

beyond that, the prosecutor’s assent to a given outcome is not necessary if the judge and the defendant are both in agreement about the outcome.

Like I said, I don’t know if you were just confused and misinformed, or if somebody’s actually filling your head with nonsense, but it really needs to stop. Your crazy ideas evidently come from a fundamental misunderstanding about how everything works—a lack of understanding resulting from, frankly, never having actually done it and also refusing to listen to people who actually know what they’re talking about.

And this specific point isn’t a policy debate in which reasonable minds might differ. You are just objectively incorrect. You’re not a prosecutor, you’re not a judge, and you’re not a defense attorney and apparently just spending days watching something from afar does not cut it here.

Maybe you can stop the fake info at its source and tell whoever told you all of this that they are either incorrect, or if so happens that every plea they saw involved a concession by the prosecutor.

Defendant is free to plea to the crimes charged at any point, if the judge is okay with it. At the lower levels in particular, prosecutors really don’t have that much power.

Go read a book.

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Re: I want to be a prosecutor

Post by rogeliolimon » Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:07 am

andythefir wrote:
Mon Feb 25, 2019 12:30 pm
This thread is baffling to me. I’m a state prosecutor, and unless you insist on LA or Manhattan, they’re really easy jobs to get. One office I worked in recruited out of Cooley because no one else wanted the job.
Hey man, I know it's been over a year since this post, but I gotta say it is REALLY encouraging to me. As someone who is totally hellbent on becoming a prosecutor, I'm constantly riddled with anxiety about the possibility of getting snubbed by DA Offices post-graduation. It's extremely heartening to hear a prosecutor attest that this isn't as quixotic as a lot of people say.

Also, contrary to some of the fringe/counter-cultural sentiments expressed on this thread, I think what you do is straight-up heroic. My family has been personally devastated by a horrible crime that was subsequently righted by a prosecutor, so the value of the profession is deeply personal to me. Thank you for your service!

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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