Veterans Thread

(Applications Advice, Letters of Recommendation . . . )
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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Fri Dec 22, 2017 1:27 am

PATCH ON MY SHOULDER

AJordan

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby AJordan » Fri Dec 22, 2017 4:30 am

sodomojo wrote:
AJordan wrote:I met a few guys who were doing 9 months in Poland and their lives are sucking right now.

2CR?


I can neither confirm nor deny your informed question.
Last edited by AJordan on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.

kingslr

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby kingslr » Fri Dec 22, 2017 8:57 am

So I am eligible for 100% GI Bill and thinking about turning in my REFRAD packet and going to law school next fall. I did not get accepted into the Army FLEP (funded legal education program) and can not apply again since I have been in the Army too long. I still want to be a JAG officer and I was wondering if any of you guys experienced or of heard anyone getting out, finishing law school, and going back active duty.

thanks! and Merry Christmas.

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BlendedUnicorn

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Fri Dec 22, 2017 9:31 am

kingslr wrote:So I am eligible for 100% GI Bill and thinking about turning in my REFRAD packet and going to law school next fall. I did not get accepted into the Army FLEP (funded legal education program) and can not apply again since I have been in the Army too long. I still want to be a JAG officer and I was wondering if any of you guys experienced or of heard anyone getting out, finishing law school, and going back active duty.

thanks! and Merry Christmas.


viewtopic.php?f=23&t=31543&p=10252636&hilit=Military+law#p10252636

This thread should be a good resource. Happy holidays!

jsmedley

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby jsmedley » Fri Dec 22, 2017 2:43 pm

FAAACK. I got the same damn score as last time!! I swear it’s the anxiety. Okay, so serious responses here, will taking the February LSAT be too late for true consideration at schools and scholarship money? I’m going to apply now for the schools I planned to, and hope my veteran status and GPA will offset the mediocre LSAT, but damn, I really thought I would have done at least a couple points better...

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MT Cicero

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MT Cicero » Fri Dec 22, 2017 3:27 pm

jsmedley wrote:FAAACK. I got the same damn score as last time!! I swear it’s the anxiety. Okay, so serious responses here, will taking the February LSAT be too late for true consideration at schools and scholarship money? I’m going to apply now for the schools I planned to, and hope my veteran status and GPA will offset the mediocre LSAT, but damn, I really thought I would have done at least a couple points better...


Damn, sorry about the score. Frustrating to get the same score I'm sure. When you get to see the test, you'll be able to look at the ones you missed. My guess is you'll see more than a few that you might pick up with another 7 weeks to prep hard for Feb.

As to whether schools would give "true consideration," I just don't know. I mean, if you told them to hold your app until Feb, you're a late applicant. On the flip side, if you put everything in with your current LSAT, you're rolling the bones that they don't outright ding you. Your GPA is above median at all three of the more solid SoCal schools (UCLA, USC, Irvine). It's even above Berk's. I think even 3 more points brings Irvine into "admit" territory, and pushes you into closer to a decent shot at the other three. You could score an admit or WL with your mini-reverse splitter status, but it's a gamble.

Really no easy answers here. I mean, SD will likely accept you and give you money enough to make up for the YRP shortfall. Perhaps more, such that you can reclassify if that works out. I just don't know how I'd feel with a 3.8/160 right now at the other schools vs. 3.8/163 in Feb. My gut is to lean toward a retake and holding off on apps. I see that UCLA and Berk have hard deadlines of 1 Feb. USC has a 1 Feb for a fee waiver, but looks like you can hold for a score since actual deadline isn't until 1 Apr. UCI has a 1 Mar deadline.

It might be worth writing to admissions (or finding out on here?) whether you can submit a "completed" app and have Berk/UCLA hold for a Feb score. For USC, seems like it's not a problem. Guessing the same for UCI. Again, you would ostensibly have the SD acceptance in your back pocket in any event.

Others may have more info on the specifics here, but I just don't think I'd want any of the non-SD schools to look at my app now with a 160 (even UCI) when they can look later with any number above that. This is all based on schools/outcomes/bell curves/etc. Factor in the family situation accordingly (but see my earlier advice on how you never know how things might change).

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby dannyswo » Sun Dec 24, 2017 3:07 am

Wipfelder wrote:
haus wrote:
Wipfelder wrote:
KPUSN07 wrote:I was not trying to be negative with my post - but if you're going to enlist and not do it for the right, primary reason - service to the country - I'm not sure it's a great idea - those three years (if that is how long it is) will be long, grueling, and you might be miserable... just enlist for the right reasons and law school will fall in your lap when ready to leave


I'd say almost no one enlists for that reason primarily.

The military is easier than many professions, but even if it is "grueling" to you, you are still gonna make more money (when you count the GI Bill) than is possible in any other career field as a recent college graduate. Just the compensation alone makes it a good proposition.

Pay must be up, the best year I had for income (E-4) was ~$14,500. Given the over the top hours I worked, I would have done better financially working at a Taco Bell.


An E-4 makes about 70k a year when you count housing and stuff, but their taxable income is low. A "modern" E4 most assuredly made more than 14,500 in income, if you count housing, uniform allowance, etc.. But yea, 14,500 was about E-4 pay in 2001, (you're dating yourself a bit Haus!) base pay has doubled since then.

Once you add the Post 9/11 GI Bill, though, then you really make out like a bandit.

Man, I made more than $14,500 a month at one point (O-4 over 16, London Married w/kids BAH, COLA, pre-Brexit).

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MrLions » Fri Dec 29, 2017 2:42 pm

Any recent Vets know how student loan repayment works in the Army? I have ~25000 in loans from undergrad (20k federal direct subsidized/unsubsidized, and 5k parent PLUS) and I'd like to see if I qualify for repayment. There's a repayment program that pays back 1/3 of your federally insured loans each year you're on active duty, but I think it might be for certain MOSs? I'm looking to enlist as 27-D. Also, would opting into that program force me to forgo post-9/11 GI Bill privileges? I'd like to see if there's a way to do both programs so that I can pay back undergrad loans while in the service and then have law school paid for when I get out.

Thanks in advance. It's hard to find good information out there. The best method I've found is just reading every article on military.com or thebalance.com or cross referencing message board posts

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MichiganHoosier

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MichiganHoosier » Fri Dec 29, 2017 3:23 pm

I may be wrong (SLRP was not available when I joined), but you can get both. However, the time served cannot be counted concurrently for both. Example: You do a 3 year enlistment with SLRP, to become fully eligible for the Post-9/11 GI Bill, you must serve an additional 3 years on top of the 3 years served for the SLRP (6 years total).

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby AJordan » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:09 pm

That's definitely a question for a recruiter as well as that kind of stuff changes all the time. I know that I had coworkers paying off over 100k in loans on a 4 year contract about 5 years ago but it all changed starting, I think, in 2013 when that program just disappeared. With the current trend toward increasing numbers I would think that it might be back in some way shape or form.

I do have multiple current coworkers with masters degrees and even DMAs counting on PSLF after year ten so that's for sure a thing.
Last edited by AJordan on Sat Jan 27, 2018 9:39 am, edited 1 time in total.

MrLions

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MrLions » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:51 pm

Thank you all for the feedback. My recruiter said that 27D doesn't qualify for loan repayment since it isn't one of the MOS that the Army has high demand right now. I just set an appointment to go down to MEPS on Friday and I'm wondering if this plan make sense to you all:

I wanted to serve exactly 36 months so that I got full GI bill but only took off three school years. That would be summer 2018 to summer 2021. But, it turns out at 3 yr paralegal contracts are really 3.5 years, and 2 yr paralegal contracts are 2.5 years (the 22 weeks of training doesn't count).

So instead of committing 3.5 years and having to take 4 years off of school, I signed for 2 years thinking that after 15 months (30 month contract - 15 months left until ETS) I'll reenlist for 2 years, extending my contract another 9 months (15 months served at time of reenlistment + 24 month reenlistment) = 39 months total from 7/31/18, meaning I get out on 10/31/21. As the end of that contract nears, I'll apply for 90 day early release for law school, meaning I get out 7/31/21, exactly 3 years from my ship date. If early release is denied, then I would use all of terminal leave and get out ASAP, probably a week into school and email professors just letting them know what's up.

Does this sound like it will work? What is the chance I get denied 90 day early release for education? Does the 2 years reenlistment timeline make sense? Thanks in advance.

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UVA2B

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:54 pm

Your best laid plans will end in disappointment, I promise. Enlistments in the military are never as neat and clean as you want them to be.

I won’t harp too much on this, but your decision to serve pains me because you’re going to likely be exceedingly disappointed in your time served, even if you manage to make your timeline somehow work.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MrLions » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:06 pm

UVA2B wrote:you’re going to likely be exceedingly disappointed in your time served, even if you manage to make your timeline somehow work.


Why's that?

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UVA2B

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:11 pm

MrLions wrote:
UVA2B wrote:you’re going to likely be exceedingly disappointed in your time served, even if you manage to make your timeline somehow work.


Why's that?


I’ve seen too many people enter service with a mentality similar to yours (only serving to get GI Bill, avoid the real world and adulthood, couldn’t figure what else to do, etc.) that ended up miserable the first time things get rough or you’re asked to do something you never wanted to do when you signed up. Responding to a recruiters BS with basically “you know I could be a paralegal at Cravath,” even internally, makes me think you’ll struggle when you’re not being asked to prepare documents or you get extended because your enlistment needs to match with your units deployment schedule. That’s the bare minimum of how your service can/will differ from how you imagine it.

Once you enlist, you have less control over how that enlistment will go than you can imagine now.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby NavyNuke » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:32 pm

MrLions wrote:Thank you all for the feedback. My recruiter said that 27D doesn't qualify for loan repayment since it isn't one of the MOS that the Army has high demand right now. I just set an appointment to go down to MEPS on Friday and I'm wondering if this plan make sense to you all:

I wanted to serve exactly 36 months so that I got full GI bill but only took off three school years. That would be summer 2018 to summer 2021. But, it turns out at 3 yr paralegal contracts are really 3.5 years, and 2 yr paralegal contracts are 2.5 years (the 22 weeks of training doesn't count).

So instead of committing 3.5 years and having to take 4 years off of school, I signed for 2 years thinking that after 15 months (30 month contract - 15 months left until ETS) I'll reenlist for 2 years, extending my contract another 9 months (15 months served at time of reenlistment + 24 month reenlistment) = 39 months total from 7/31/18, meaning I get out on 10/31/21. As the end of that contract nears, I'll apply for 90 day early release for law school, meaning I get out 7/31/21, exactly 3 years from my ship date. If early release is denied, then I would use all of terminal leave and get out ASAP, probably a week into school and email professors just letting them know what's up.

Does this sound like it will work? What is the chance I get denied 90 day early release for education? Does the 2 years reenlistment timeline make sense? Thanks in advance.


Ehh.. I dunno man, to go into an enlistment hoping everything is going to pan out exactly to a three year plan is setting yourself up for some potential disappointment.

Just know that as soon as you enlist, the needs of the army come first. And be prepared for the needs of the army to start mattering at MEPS too. If they don't need paralegals, and you have an awesome asvab that qualifies for an MOS they do need, then their job will be to try to convince you to do that MOS. You may have to stand your ground and tell them no. I didn't join the navy with dreams of doing nuclear power. I was talked into at meps.

Serving your country can be an awesome and rewarding experience.. just be prepared for parts of it to be out of your control.
Last edited by NavyNuke on Sat Jan 27, 2018 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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usn26

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby usn26 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:56 pm

UVA2B wrote:Once you enlist, you have less control over how that enlistment will go than you can imagine now.

NavyNuke wrote:I dunno man, to go into an enlistment hoping everything is going to pan out exactly to a three year plan is setting yourself up for some potential disappointment.


^

haus

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby haus » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:11 pm

usn26 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:Once you enlist, you have less control over how that enlistment will go than you can imagine now.

NavyNuke wrote:I dunno man, to go into an enlistment hoping everything is going to pan out exactly to a three year plan is setting yourself up for some potential disappointment.


^

This

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MrLions » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:31 pm

So what's a better option? Choose the 3 year option and still have the chance of going long?

If I do 2 years initially and try reenlist and line up the timing I could either A) make it work perfectly or B) not make it work perfectly and end up in the above situation.

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UVA2B

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:36 pm

I’m pretty sure if you apply for early release, your separation will prevent you from getting full GI Bill because of it. So if you want GI Bill at 100%, you’re better off guaranteeing you get that.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MrLions » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:39 pm

UVA2B wrote:I’m pretty sure if you apply for early release, your separation will prevent you from getting full GI Bill because of it. So if you want GI Bill at 100%, you’re better off guaranteeing you get that.


Why would that be the case though? GI Bill's only stipulation is 36 months active duty and no dishonorable discharge, I'm pretty sure. As long as the 90 day early release doesn't make it so that I'm serving less than 36 months active duty then it shouldn't matter.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby LSNlife » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:43 pm

MrLions wrote:So what's a better option? Choose the 3 year option and still have the chance of going long?

If I do 2 years initially and try reenlist and line up the timing I could either A) make it work perfectly or B) not make it work perfectly and end up in the above situation.


No one can tell you what to do. But I think what a lot of these guys are saying is that you may want to examine your reasons for joining in the first place and seriously consider how you would feel if it doesn't workout to your plan and if that's a deal breaker for you. Even something as simple, as your ship date getting set back by 6 months last minute after you sign or you getting hurt at training and having to go on medical hold, let alone all of the factors everyone else has already brought up all have the potential to completely mess up your timeline. Once you enlist the army comes first, and your entire thought process sounds like you have yet to fully grasp the implications of that and what that could mean for all of these options you've created.

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UVA2B

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby UVA2B » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:43 pm

MrLions wrote:
UVA2B wrote:I’m pretty sure if you apply for early release, your separation will prevent you from getting full GI Bill because of it. So if you want GI Bill at 100%, you’re better off guaranteeing you get that.


Why would that be the case though? GI Bill's only stipulation is 36 months active duty and no dishonorable discharge, I'm pretty sure. As long as the 90 day early release doesn't make it so that I'm serving less than 36 months active duty then it shouldn't matter.


I take that back, I forgot that was after a BS re-enlistment that would still get you to 36 months. You’d still get full GI Bill at that point.

I would bet money this plan goes to hell though, knowing what an administrative nightmare separating from the military always is. I know a guy who wasn’t sure he was going to be released until literally the day before classes started. And he only hang up there was getting terminal leave denied and not letting the DD214 go.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby BlendedUnicorn » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:51 pm

I would just sign up for 3.5 years and get comfortable with having an extra year of life experience and maybe getting the chance to make E5.

Your plan's got a ton of pitfalls- if your command denies your early separation, there's a good chance the commander will also have a policy on how much terminal leave he'll allow. I wouldn't want to be relying on a plan that would require more than 15 days. Reenlisting and then turning around almost immediately and trying to get out early will get you all the wrong sorts of attention- it's amazing how hard people can make it for you to do things that you theoretically have the right to do once you're in.

I guess there's a chance it could work but it should tell you something that you're getting comments like this from everyone who has been in.

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby MrLions » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:07 pm

BlendedUnicorn wrote:I would just sign up for 3.5 years and get comfortable with having an extra year of life experience and maybe getting the chance to make E5.

Your plan's got a ton of pitfalls- if your command denies your early separation, there's a good chance the commander will also have a policy on how much terminal leave he'll allow. I wouldn't want to be relying on a plan that would require more than 15 days. Reenlisting and then turning around almost immediately and trying to get out early will get you all the wrong sorts of attention- it's amazing how hard people can make it for you to do things that you theoretically have the right to do once you're in.

I guess there's a chance it could work but it should tell you something that you're getting comments like this from everyone who has been in.


Yeah, I get it. I'm just worried the 3.5 then turns into 4.5 if things don't go as planned.

haus

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Re: Veterans Thread

Postby haus » Tue Jan 02, 2018 9:19 pm

MrLions wrote:
BlendedUnicorn wrote:I would just sign up for 3.5 years and get comfortable with having an extra year of life experience and maybe getting the chance to make E5.

Your plan's got a ton of pitfalls- if your command denies your early separation, there's a good chance the commander will also have a policy on how much terminal leave he'll allow. I wouldn't want to be relying on a plan that would require more than 15 days. Reenlisting and then turning around almost immediately and trying to get out early will get you all the wrong sorts of attention- it's amazing how hard people can make it for you to do things that you theoretically have the right to do once you're in.

I guess there's a chance it could work but it should tell you something that you're getting comments like this from everyone who has been in.


Yeah, I get it. I'm just worried the 3.5 then turns into 4.5 if things don't go as planned.

Keep in mind, you will still be on the hook for several years of reserve time (perhaps inactive). With the shit head in office, the odds seem higher than normal that stupid shit is going to happen and your 3.5 may well turn into 7.5. Hopefully life will go as you want it to, but when you sign the papers you need to understand that there is a shit-ton that will be entirely out of your control.



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