UC Irvine Law Ranking Forum

[3v3ryth1ng]

I just don't understand why they would start up a new law school in a region that already has about 10 others in a market that is grossly oversaturated. Is this some type of cruel joke?

Well, I'm not sure you consider Orange County to be separate from Los Angeles (or the rest of California for that matter), but there are no good law schools in Orange County. UCLA, USC, Berkeley, Hastings, Stanford, Davis, and Loyola are all in LA or NorCal. Orange County has over 3 million people, and in many ways it's a separate market from Los Angeles. By contrast, Chicago has under 3 million people, yet is served by 5 (maybe 6) reputable law schools, and that's not counting nearby elite schools that would be analogous to Stanford, Davis, Hastings, and Berkeley (all of which are 8-9 hours away from OC). I think UCI, assuming it turns out to be an elite school, is filling a definite gap California's law school market.

[Grizz]

I just don't understand why they would start up a new law school in a region that already has about 10 others in a market that is grossly oversaturated. Is this some type of cruel joke?

Well, I'm not sure you consider Orange County to be separate from Los Angeles (or the rest of California for that matter), but there are no good law schools in Orange County. UCLA, USC, Berkeley, Hastings, Stanford, Davis, and Loyola are all in LA or NorCal. Orange County has over 3 million people, and in many ways it's a separate market from Los Angeles. By contrast, Chicago has under 3 million people, yet is served by 5 (maybe 6) reputable law schools, and that's not counting nearby elite schools that would be analogous to Stanford, Davis, Hastings, and Berkeley (all of which are 8-9 hours away from OC). I think UCI, assuming it turns out to be an elite school, is filling a definite gap California's law school market.

Umm There are way way way more grads pumped out by Cali schools than there are jobs. That doesn't sound like a gap to me.

[Aberzombie1892]

Yeah California really only needs that six it has in the T50. Any schools beyond those may make sense ideologically or in theory - but in reality, there simply are not enough jobs to absorb all of these under trained workers.

UCI may rank high or low, either way, it will hurt all of the law schools in CA under Stanford (and probably Berkeley).

[Danteshek]

Yeah California wealthy individuals and corporations in California really only need the six it has in the T50

FTFY

[3ThrowAway99]

Top. 20.
I am sick of hearing trash talk on UCI law becuase I have no idea where its coming from. Their median GPA is 3.65, and their median LSAT is 167, and NO it did not drop when the second class wasn't offered a full ride AND the class size increased.Wanna compare that to some other law schools?

USC GPA 3.60, LSAT 167
Cornell GPA 3.67, LSAT 167
Boston University GPA 3.77, LSAT 166
Notre Dame GPA 3.6 LSAT 166

Numbers don't lie. UCI's a top 20, no doubt. ABA can't *promise* accreditation, but realistically, UCI has pretty much already been guaranteed.
I think the people that are criticizing UCI and comparing it to 2nd tier schools probably only got into 2nd tier schools and are just bitter. UCI's faculty comes from THE BEST schools in the country- schools you probably didnt even get into- so i suggest you stop whining and just get the best education you can at whatever school you DID get into.

No. I strongly doubt this. If anything I suspect after a few more years Irvine will settle into the 40s. You can't go by the current numbers because they have given major incentives for people to attend the first few years upon opening. Also, rankings consider the reputation among peer schools and judges--it will take a while for that to be established. Obviously Chemerinsky will help with that, but I can't imagine Irvine get much over a 3.0 rep score in US News until far down the road, especially since the reputation scores are not just based on California peers. Obviously this is just my guess and could be totally wrong, but I think expecting to see Irvine in the top 20 is disappointment waiting to happen if you are counting on it. And that is true even though admissions for the first year or so was more competitive than Yale in terms of percentage of student applicants accepted (largely due to strong incentives I think).

[snichols16]

The problem is that UCI is on the west coast and a limited number of East Coast schools know about it. Further, schools only rank well if they have been around for a while. For example HYS have been around since the 1800's, and a majority of schools in the Top 50 have been around since early 1900's.

1. You are categorically wrong that only people on the east and west coasts know about UCI. Haven spoken with law schools, law professors, and legal practitioners in the Top 30 on both coasts AND in the Midwest, everyone knows about UCI. There have been over 20 articles about UCI Law in the NLJ (which recruiters and partners with firms in the NLJ 250 read) over the past couple years (not to mention the WSJ, New York Times, etc).

2. I don't know how to respond to your last claim (and I am sensing some Chapman envy). I could equally say that being located above the Mason-Dixon line or the being located east of the line set by the Proclamation of 1763 will increase the ranking of a school. The correlation doesn't fully exist as there are other stronger and more endogenous factors at play.

Whoa whoa whoa, calm down fire cracker. My comment was not meant to be meansprited, it was merely meant to be borderline "realistic."

Yes, people have read about UCI, it is a great undergrad and the law school has gotten great press over the years. However, when it comes to voting most east coast schools, employers, scholars have no experience whatsoever with UCI. UCI has no alumni, more importantly no alumni on the east coast, where a overwhelming majority of the votes come from. If you were an law school/employer would you vote for Boston/Notre Dame or UCI? UCI has great LSAT scores, however a lot of points are based on "reputation." Reputation points come from having a vast network of alumni sprawled over the country and that only comes with time. This is why in the Top 50 of schools, only like 13 have were created after the 1960s.

Further, UCI will be fine in Irvine/Orange County 100%.

That being said, I dont understand why you would take offense to predicting UCI to be ranked starting off in the high 30s. Its a brand new school.

we will see whos who in the zoo when you guys get ranked in 2013.

You clearly haven't actually looked at the methodology behind the rankings, so I'm not going to spend anymore time debating my points with you.

[Nacirema]

Great, I accept your surrender.

[Nacirema]

FYI

"Peer Assessment Score (.25) In the fall of 2010, law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chairs of faculty appointments, and the most recently tenured faculty members were asked to rate programs on a scale from marginal (1) to outstanding (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 66 percent of those surveyed responded.

Assessment Score by Lawyers/Judges (.15) In the fall of 2010, legal professionals, including the hiring partners of law firms, state attorneys general, and selected federal and state judges, were asked to rate programs on a scale from marginal (1) to outstanding (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school.

In the the fall 2010 lawyer and judge survey, U.S. News for the first time surveyed 750 hiring partners and recruiters at law firms who made the 2010 best law firms rankings produced jointly by U.S. News and the publication Best Lawyers. Their ratings are included in the lawyer and judge survey score. About 14 percent of those lawyers and judges surveyed responded. The two most recent years lawyers' and judges' surveys were averaged and are weighted by .15."

[snichols16]

FYI

"Peer Assessment Score (.25) In the fall of 2010, law school deans, deans of academic affairs, chairs of faculty appointments, and the most recently tenured faculty members were asked to rate programs on a scale from marginal (1) to outstanding (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school. About 66 percent of those surveyed responded.

Assessment Score by Lawyers/Judges (.15) In the fall of 2010, legal professionals, including the hiring partners of law firms, state attorneys general, and selected federal and state judges, were asked to rate programs on a scale from marginal (1) to outstanding (5). Those individuals who did not know enough about a school to evaluate it fairly were asked to mark "don't know." A school's score is the average of all the respondents who rated it. Responses of "don't know" counted neither for nor against a school.

In the the fall 2010 lawyer and judge survey, U.S. News for the first time surveyed 750 hiring partners and recruiters at law firms who made the 2010 Best Law Firms rankings produced jointly by U.S. News and the publication Best Lawyers. Their ratings are included in the lawyer and judge survey score. About 14 percent of those lawyers and judges surveyed responded. The two most recent years lawyers' and judges' surveys were averaged and are weighted by .15."

Thanks for doing the work for her.

[Cade McNown]

This TTT shithole will fry come rankings day, and rightfully so.

You get what you pay for.

Nice tan.

/Thread Fer Seriously.

[Nacirema]

Dude, we are tight

[jarofsoup]

The only reason why this school will be a T1 is because it has the name University of California in the title and that goes a long way in Cali. I would take this school over the most of the jesuits in CA.

[Nacirema]

Oh Sean

[Chidasuuu]

Curious as to how TLS's view on UCI Law has changed in the past two years. BUMP

[twenty]

.

[Chidasuuu]

As an institution, the structure that makes up UCI law is eloquently planned and beautifully orchestrated. They deserve to be ranked on USNWR as a top 20 school.

...That said, bringing another law school into one of the most impacted legal markets in the country is recklessly destructive. With a solid 1/4 to 1/3 of the classes of UCLA and USC not able to find legal jobs, it's frustrating to watch the new kid with cool new toys sweep in and show off federal clerkship placements as indicative of the overall success of the school.

Not a huge fan of Janice Austin, either. Without stepping into speculation territory too much, I found her pretty unprofessional. My friend and I went to UCI's student preview day last year and thought it was pretty solid despite her. Fortunately, an actual student there probably wouldn't have to deal with her much on a day to day basis. The other financial aid people definitely know what they're doing.

And when exactly will USNWR place UCI into the rankings?

[aesth24]

As an institution, the structure that makes up UCI law is eloquently planned and beautifully orchestrated. They deserve to be ranked on USNWR as a top 20 school.

...That said, bringing another law school into one of the most impacted legal markets in the country is recklessly destructive. With a solid 1/4 to 1/3 of the classes of UCLA and USC not able to find legal jobs, it's frustrating to watch the new kid with cool new toys sweep in and show off federal clerkship placements as indicative of the overall success of the school.

Not a huge fan of Janice Austin, either. Without stepping into speculation territory too much, I found her pretty unprofessional. My friend and I went to UCI's student preview day last year and thought it was pretty solid despite her. Fortunately, an actual student there probably wouldn't have to deal with her much on a day to day basis. The other financial aid people definitely know what they're doing.

And when exactly will USNWR place UCI into the rankings?

T30

[rstahl]

As an institution, the structure that makes up UCI law is eloquently planned and beautifully orchestrated. They deserve to be ranked on USNWR as a top 20 school.

...That said, bringing another law school into one of the most impacted legal markets in the country is recklessly destructive. With a solid 1/4 to 1/3 of the classes of UCLA and USC not able to find legal jobs, it's frustrating to watch the new kid with cool new toys sweep in and show off federal clerkship placements as indicative of the overall success of the school.

Not a huge fan of Janice Austin, either. Without stepping into speculation territory too much, I found her pretty unprofessional. My friend and I went to UCI's student preview day last year and thought it was pretty solid despite her. Fortunately, an actual student there probably wouldn't have to deal with her much on a day to day basis. The other financial aid people definitely know what they're doing.

And when exactly will USNWR place UCI into the rankings?

March of 2015.

[Chidasuuu]

It seems like the expected range for Irvine's debut ranking is around T20-T30. Could it possibly be as competitive as UCLA and Berkeley?

[BigZuck]

It seems like the expected range for Irvine's debut ranking is around T20-T30. Could it possibly be as competitive as UCLA and Berkeley?

No.

Also, US News Rankings don't matter, at least not for someone going to law school to try and get a job with that degree. Whether it's 20 or 50, it's still the same school.

[californiauser]

It seems like the expected range for Irvine's debut ranking is around T20-T30. Could it possibly be as competitive as UCLA and Berkeley?

Maybe UCLA in terms of big law and fed clerks (still not likely), not even close to Berkeley.

[indo]

It seems like the expected range for Irvine's debut ranking is around T20-T30. Could it possibly be as competitive as UCLA and Berkeley?

NO. UCI will NOT be competitive as UCLA or Berkeley.

[yeslekkkk]

It seems like the expected range for Irvine's debut ranking is around T20-T30. Could it possibly be as competitive as UCLA and Berkeley?

NO. UCI will NOT be competitive as UCLA or Berkeley.

I bet uci will be top 50, but I highly doubt it will outrank uc Davis or possibly uc Hastings . There are already so many schools. Plus, it seems likes rankings does correspond somewhat to overall university rankings. While uci is a good school, it pales into comparison to ucdavis. I think people are a little too optimistic in its ranking.

[rstahl]

It seems like the expected range for Irvine's debut ranking is around T20-T30. Could it possibly be as competitive as UCLA and Berkeley?

NO. UCI will NOT be competitive as UCLA or Berkeley.

I bet uci will be top 50, but I highly doubt it will outrank uc Davis or possibly uc Hastings . There are already so many schools. Plus, it seems likes rankings does correspond somewhat to overall university rankings. While uci is a good school, it pales into comparison to ucdavis. I think people are a little too optimistic in its ranking.

UC Davis:
GPA--> 25th: 3.31 50th: 3.55 75th: 3.67
LSAT--> 25th: 159 50th: 162 75th: 164

UCI:
GPA--> 25th: 3.33 75th: 3.71
LSAT--> 25th: 162 75th: 166

While GPA/LSAT are not the only factors that go into rankings, they are a significant chunk. There is good reason to think UCI will be ranked above UC Davis and in the Top 30.

[Tiago Splitter]

It seems like the expected range for Irvine's debut ranking is around T20-T30. Could it possibly be as competitive as UCLA and Berkeley?

NO. UCI will NOT be competitive as UCLA or Berkeley.

I bet uci will be top 50, but I highly doubt it will outrank uc Davis or possibly uc Hastings . There are already so many schools. Plus, it seems likes rankings does correspond somewhat to overall university rankings. While uci is a good school, it pales into comparison to ucdavis. I think people are a little too optimistic in its ranking.

As universities UCI and UCD are equivalent. Barring exceptional circumstances both law schools should be quickly ruled out.