What are the chances of getting a full ride?

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parth54321

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What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby parth54321 » Mon Dec 04, 2017 11:58 pm

Before I start, I'd like to clarify: When I say 'full ride', I do indeed mean full tuition scholarship and housing both.

I have a BBA in Accounting and a masters in Tax. But I actually lost my first job in Public accounting die to 'corporate culture.' That is something I rather not go into more detail. But anyway, I've been thinking since March/April, this was a sign I'm not destined to be an accountant. I have passed 3/4 CPA exams since then, and I took my last part 2 weeks ago which I am absolutely certain i passed even though the score does not come back until December 19th.

Unfortunately, I have accumulated far too much debt in Undergrad and Graduate school. Like, well over $150k in combination of Private and federal loans. I cannot afford to take out more loans, but would indeed like to pursue a Juris Doctor... not only that, but move to a new area and get a fresh start in life. Career goal is to be a tax attorney... Probably get an LLM in Taxation, but keep my options open and take a range of courses in my first year to see if there's anything I'd like to pursue instead, or on top of tax. A tax attorney with a CPA is as far as I know well in demand and greatly compensated. I am going to take the LSAT, and I actually would've taken it this December if I did not fail one of the CPA exams in May to be retaken 2 weeks ago.

Here are my stats
-Undergrad GPA - 3.1
-Graduate GPA - 3.28
All CPA exams passed (will have been passed)
Some work experience (not a lot)
Taking the LSAT in February/June

I am willing to go to lower tier law schools to get my education. Although a school ranking is important, I've learned there is much more to an education than its ranking and what is offered on paper. I've learned how to make the most out of certain opportunities and experiences.

Back to the topic question:
Can I get a FULL RIDE to law school?
What is the likelihood for most tiers below the first?
Maybe I can get a full ride the first year, and a firm could sponsor the other years? or transfer to a better one if I do well?

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Platopus

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby Platopus » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:05 am

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Last edited by Platopus on Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.

SomewhatLearnedHand

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:09 am

I'll go out on a limb (not really) and say with a 3.1 gpa you'll never get a full scholly to the T13, so those are out. I'd imagine you're going to need something like a 172 or 173+ to start getting real money at the lower T1 schools. Full scholly maybe at T2 or lower schools and then you have to seriously worry about employment prospects because, as you mentioned, rankings really matter in this profession.

In response to your last few questions, I've never heard of firms paying tuition for students and don't believe thats a thing. Additionally, you can transfer up after one year, but then you end up paying sticker price at your new school for two years.

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UVA2B

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:13 am

You’re not ready for law school for many, many reasons. First, focus on getting another CPA job and cut down on that debt.

Full tuition and some stipend is rare, but it happens. But with your weak GPA, you’ll need a strong LSAT to even have a shot. But still, you’re not ready.

Tax attorneys are a relative niche practice, but your pedigree will matter. Just being a JD/CPA won’t be enough to open desirable tax attorney jobs by itself. Youll still want/need good grades from a good school. But there’s more.

You seem wholly unaware of what a legal education actually looks like. As a 1L, you’ll take the same classes as every other law student in the country, more or less. You won’t be exploring other topics to see what interests you. Law school isn’t undergrad.

Spend more time researching the legal profession and what it will take to get the type of job you want with a JD. Do this while working with your CPA cutting away at your debt load. And once you’ve had enough time to figure what you want, what it’ll take to get it, and rocked the LSAT to the best of your abilities, then start thinking about the costs of specific law schools that will help you achieve your goals.

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xRON MEXiCOx

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby xRON MEXiCOx » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:23 am

58.678%

parth54321

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby parth54321 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:42 am

A T13 was never my plan.

I have a friend currently in a school ranked under 150. Same as undergrad, which is where I went for both degrees. The school gave him a full scholarship with a 162 LSAT and 3.2 GPA. To say a 3.1 GPA and 3.28 Grad school GPA is far too low for consideration is quite false. He was in the top 15% his first year, participates in other programs and has had at least one summer internship and is now in year 2.

Many of you may not know what a CPA is, but its always argued back & forth on which is harder: CPA or Bar exam? I completed the CPA.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

SomewhatLearnedHand

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby SomewhatLearnedHand » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:48 am

parth54321 wrote:A T13 was never my plan.

I have a friend currently in a school ranked under 150. Same as undergrad, which is where I went for both degrees. The school gave him a full scholarship with a 162 LSAT and 3.2 GPA. To say a 3.1 GPA and 3.28 Grad school GPA is far too low for consideration is quite false. He was in the top 15% his first year, participates in other programs and has had at least one summer internship and is now in year 2.

Many of you may not know what a CPA is, but its always argued back & forth on which is harder: CPA or Bar exam? I completed the CPA.

Anyone else care to weigh in?


Unless I am mistaken, your grad school gpa doesn't matter. Schools only look at your undergrad gpa. We know what a CPA is- it'll be viewed as a soft factor on your application that only gives a very slight boost, just like most other work experience. If you want to go to a school ranked under 150, just realize you shouldn't be expecting any good employment outcomes. Like half the class at those schools don't even find legal jobs.

runinthefront

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby runinthefront » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:49 am

parth54321 wrote:A T13 was never my plan.

I have a friend currently in a school ranked under 150. Same as undergrad, which is where I went for both degrees. The school gave him a full scholarship with a 162 LSAT and 3.2 GPA. To say a 3.1 GPA and 3.28 Grad school GPA is far too low for consideration is quite false. He was in the top 15% his first year, participates in other programs and has had at least one summer internship and is now in year 2.

Many of you may not know what a CPA is, but its always argued back & forth on which is harder: CPA or Bar exam? I completed the CPA.

Anyone else care to weigh in?

I’ll just weigh in to say that you should wait a year and see if your friend actually leaves law school with a job offer for full-time employment upon graduation. You should then ask whether that was the typical outcome at your friend’s school—assuming your friend has a job,of course.

Internships are easy to come by in law school.
Last edited by runinthefront on Fri Jan 26, 2018 11:57 pm, edited 2 times in total.

cavalier1138

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby cavalier1138 » Tue Dec 05, 2017 6:47 am

parth54321 wrote:I am willing to go to lower tier law schools to get my education. Although a school ranking is important, I've learned there is much more to an education than its ranking and what is offered on paper. I've learned how to make the most out of certain opportunities and experiences.


Have you learned how to read an employment report?

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UVA2B

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby UVA2B » Tue Dec 05, 2017 7:58 am

parth54321 wrote:A T13 was never my plan.

I have a friend currently in a school ranked under 150. Same as undergrad, which is where I went for both degrees. The school gave him a full scholarship with a 162 LSAT and 3.2 GPA. To say a 3.1 GPA and 3.28 Grad school GPA is far too low for consideration is quite false. He was in the top 15% his first year, participates in other programs and has had at least one summer internship and is now in year 2.

Many of you may not know what a CPA is, but its always argued back & forth on which is harder: CPA or Bar exam? I completed the CPA.

Anyone else care to weigh in?


No one said any of this, but I’ll try to expand.

You don’t need a T13 to have a good outcome, because many great outcomes come from schools ranked well below that. Your CPA (seriously, you think a board full of lawyers and law students have no idea what a CPA is? Give us a little credit here) is an ok soft for admissions, and it’s a nice one for wanting to get into a tax practice, but like I said before, that CPA alone won’t make you a lock for a desirable tax practice position and you’ll still want a degree with decent pedigree and good grades in the region you’re trying to practice.

A full scholarship is possible if you rock the LSAT, and possibly even a really good one with a high enough LSAT (for instance, WUSTL would be possible with a 170+, which is a great outcome).

And good for your friend doing well at a lower ranked school. You should definitely see what their experience is in the paid post-graduation job market is, because that’ll be very informative for you in figuring out the opportunities at a school like that. They might have a great outcome, or they might struggle, but either way they’ll be able to help you figure out the legal market in that region and whether you have a decent shot in a highly paid tax practice out of that school in that market.

My advice to wait and research more is not because you should never go to law school, or that you need to go to a T13. Those are just flatly untrue. But as of right now, you sound ill-informed about law school, legal practice as a tax attorney, and what it will actually take to get what you want, all while sitting on a heavy debt load that isn’t going away. That’s why getting another job, eliminating that debt, studying to max your potential on the LSAT, and spending some time researching the markets you’re interested in and what it will take to get the job you want in that market will allow you to start your career off on the right foot.

Going to law school on a full tuition scholarship is a great start in starting in this career, but it’s also not the end of the cost-benefit analysis. That’s something you seriously need to consider.

goingnutslawschool

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby goingnutslawschool » Tue Dec 05, 2017 12:20 pm

Ouch.....

parth54321

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby parth54321 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:14 pm

Could anyone else weigh in?

cavalier1138

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby cavalier1138 » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:48 pm

parth54321 wrote:Could anyone else weigh in?


Do you want people who don't know what the CPA is to weigh in? Or where would you prefer to get your validation?

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby sparkytrainer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 1:03 pm

parth54321 wrote:Could anyone else weigh in?


You lack a basic understanding of how employment in the legal world works OP. Also, who cares about your CPA? It won't make a difference in your applications.

But this is all ridiculous until you get an lsat. Get an lsat, look at some employment numbers, then come back.

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Yugihoe

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby Yugihoe » Sun Dec 10, 2017 5:10 pm

Bro don't bother.

With so much debt, going to law school is a wrong move for you. That's 3 years of not paying your loans and having no salary, even if you got a full ride. Then after that, the chances of you getting a big law job that can service your loans are not going to be great from a non t-13. Also, let's say EVERYTHING works out for you and you get a big law salary, you still will have a shitty job, doing something that is as bad as public accounting and will take many years to break even. Also, tax groups are one of the hardest to break into and and you'll need to literally have top grades to get a shot.

Everyone here is right. Pass the final CPA exam and get your license. If you are unconvinced, PM me and I'll break it down for you with details.

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby mcmand » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:20 pm

parth54321 wrote:Could anyone else weigh in?


UVA2B's post is the nicest and most optimistic post you're going to get from anyone here. Law school and pursuing a legal career is a mixed bag to begin with, and based on the information you've given us, you have a tougher hill to climb. Focus on your debt. The grass is not always greener.
Last edited by mcmand on Mon Jan 29, 2018 6:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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ManoftheHour

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby ManoftheHour » Sun Dec 10, 2017 7:58 pm

What kind of job do you want? Tax is a very niche and small field. Biglaw and even mid/small tax lawyer jobs are scarce. The tax department of most big law firms are tiny compared to their litigation/corp group. Most tax JD people probably will work in Big 4 accounting. Post JD, you have a really good chance of landing Big 4 accounting in a specialty tax group and your salary would be higher than it would be now but I'm not sure if that's worth 3 more years of your life + 3 years of lost salary + potentially more debt to do almost the same thing you've been doing.

Why not just pass the CPA and swing for Big 4, national, or regional firm instead (if you're not in it already)? You have experience and you should be more marketable if you pass that last portion of the CPA exam.

parth54321

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby parth54321 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:04 am

ManoftheHour wrote:What kind of job do you want? Tax is a very niche and small field. Biglaw and even mid/small tax lawyer jobs are scarce. The tax department of most big law firms are tiny compared to their litigation/corp group. Most tax JD people probably will work in Big 4 accounting. Post JD, you have a really good chance of landing Big 4 accounting in a specialty tax group and your salary would be higher than it would be now but I'm not sure if that's worth 3 more years of your life + 3 years of lost salary + potentially more debt to do almost the same thing you've been doing.

Why not just pass the CPA and swing for Big 4, national, or regional firm instead (if you're not in it already)? You have experience and you should be more marketable if you pass that last portion of the CPA exam.


I think you said it better than anyone else. seriously, even though I have no idea why I cannot seem to get interviews after passing 3 parts of the CPA. Another thought I had was going to Law school for a year under a full scholarship and maybe be able to decide whether or not it is for me. I am probably still going to take the LSAT and see what happens.

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ManoftheHour

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby ManoftheHour » Mon Dec 11, 2017 12:14 am

parth54321 wrote:I think you said it better than anyone else. seriously, even though I have no idea why I cannot seem to get interviews after passing 3 parts of the CPA. Another thought I had was going to Law school for a year under a full scholarship and maybe be able to decide whether or not it is for me. I am probably still going to take the LSAT and see what happens.

I'm not an accountant, but am familiar with the recruiting process. It's probably the GPA that's holding you back but I feel like smaller firms care about that a lot less. I mean there are probably a few big 4 people with that GPA. And assuming your graduate degree was something like the Mpac, you should be employable somewhere. I'd say keep looking.

Law school will always be there for you. But without a burning desire to be an attorney, I think it should be the nuclear option.

With that said, I know people that went to lower ranking schools that do end up at the Big 4 after their JD. I know people from USD (USD even has a tax LLM program that you can tack onto your JD) and Chapman that got Big 4 after they received their JDs. No accounting background either. You can probably get a full ride there if you get a half decent LSAT score (like in the 160s). But like I said, there's definitely some risk and a shit ton of opportunity cost in going to those schools.

I would probably just wait until CPA results. If you pass like you think you did, hopefully that opens up more doors. The fact that you will have the letters CPA next to your name should give your resume a boost. If after looking around you can't even find anything suitable, then only then consider law school.

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby dabigchina » Mon Dec 11, 2017 2:23 am

I'm a CPA. Don't go to a law school ranked in the 150's. It's not going to open any doors that are not already open with an MBT.

Go out there and hustle for a job.

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby NonTradinStLou » Wed Dec 27, 2017 11:36 am

I can kind of relate to you, except I'm currently employed. I have a pretty solid career & credentials already (make mid-100s, have a good lifestyle, etc.). I am only willing to go to law school if I get a full ride, and it has to be located in my current geographical area due to family circumstances. I, too, am also willing to go to a low-ranked school as long as I don't have to pay for it (or have to pay very little for it), as I owe tons of money from undergrad and my master's degree as well.

However, I must agree with the other posters that going to law school will NOT be your salvation if you can't make your current field work, and I also agree that you should try to make that work first. I know too many people who tried to do that and left with only more student loans, or the inability to find good work afterwards. That's great that your friend is in the top 15% of his class, but that is never guaranteed regardless of which law school you attend. You can't enroll expecting that you will get awesome grades and have great job prospects afterwards.

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Re: What are the chances of getting a full ride?

Postby blair.waldorf » Wed Dec 27, 2017 12:46 pm

UVA2B wrote:You’re not ready for law school for many, many reasons. First, focus on getting another CPA job and cut down on that debt.

Full tuition and some stipend is rare, but it happens. But with your weak GPA, you’ll need a strong LSAT to even have a shot. But still, you’re not ready.

Tax attorneys are a relative niche practice, but your pedigree will matter. Just being a JD/CPA won’t be enough to open desirable tax attorney jobs by itself. Youll still want/need good grades from a good school. But there’s more.

You seem wholly unaware of what a legal education actually looks like. As a 1L, you’ll take the same classes as every other law student in the country, more or less. You won’t be exploring other topics to see what interests you. Law school isn’t undergrad.

Spend more time researching the legal profession and what it will take to get the type of job you want with a JD. Do this while working with your CPA cutting away at your debt load. And once you’ve had enough time to figure what you want, what it’ll take to get it, and rocked the LSAT to the best of your abilities, then start thinking about the costs of specific law schools that will help you achieve your goals.


+1 to all of this. Three years without paying that undergrad/grad debt is a lot, so you want to start chipping away at that first. Additionally, you want to go to a good school, preferably a T13, and there are some other options such as Wash U with a full ride that aren't bad. Fuck all that "there's more to an education than ranking" BS. In theory, I agree, but in the legal world, where you go to school matters. The better the school, the lower the grades you can have to get the same opportunities. You cannot predict how well you will do, and the pressure to be at the very top is unimaginable stress.

Wash U gives a full ride + stipend but you'll need a high LSAT to combat your GPA. I'd imagine you'd need a 173+ (purely anecdotal based on the fact that I have the scholarship and know a couple others who do). But really, you need to kill the LSAT and chip away at your prior debt first.



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