T-14 LRAP Overview Forum
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
You are being a dick for really no reason Nebby.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
I know. Too much caffeine at work makes my irritable. Sorry for being an ass, 2017hopeful.
- Thelaw23
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Nebby wrote:Possible but not likely, just like entry level international PI employment20171lhopeful wrote:Yes, I could have read the whole term section in depth, but it's faster and easier to get a response through these channels, and it was. Next time, feel free not to respond.Nebby wrote:Yup.cavalier1138 wrote:You're correct about NYU's program. The non-PSLF version is almost exclusively for international work, because that's the main kind of PI that doesn't qualify for PSLF.Rigo wrote:And please tell me to stfu if I have a completely flawed understanding. I spent hours researching this stuff since I was starting from a zero knowledge baseline (I didn't even know what the word amortization meant), but I could still be missing a fundamental concept.
I was being because I hate answering questions from posters who, had they read the respective LRAP policy, they would find the answer.
(I'll see myself out now)
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Bump bc awesome resource.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
I'm having a heck of a time understanding the particulars of NYU's LRAP, and was hoping someone could help.
From the website: "The amount of debt qualifying for consideration by the Program (“Qualifying Debt”) is the lesser of: The original principal of the participant’s actual law school loans (“Actual Debt”), as defined above, or an amount equal to three years (six semesters) of the standard student expense budget less aid received and less the student contribution calculated according to NYU’s institutional formula (“Maximum LRAP-Eligible Debt”)"
According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.
Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.
Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!
From the website: "The amount of debt qualifying for consideration by the Program (“Qualifying Debt”) is the lesser of: The original principal of the participant’s actual law school loans (“Actual Debt”), as defined above, or an amount equal to three years (six semesters) of the standard student expense budget less aid received and less the student contribution calculated according to NYU’s institutional formula (“Maximum LRAP-Eligible Debt”)"
According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.
Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.
Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!
- Leliana
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
0L here but I was at NYU's LRAP panel during ASW and they confirmed that the "student contribution" amount is not eligible for LRAP.brennakate wrote:According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.
Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.
Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!
I think their office is super swamped right now, I haven't had success getting in touch with them via email lately. That does seem really high, though...
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
You should call their LRAP person and not wait for email.brennakate wrote:I'm having a heck of a time understanding the particulars of NYU's LRAP, and was hoping someone could help.
From the website: "The amount of debt qualifying for consideration by the Program (“Qualifying Debt”) is the lesser of: The original principal of the participant’s actual law school loans (“Actual Debt”), as defined above, or an amount equal to three years (six semesters) of the standard student expense budget less aid received and less the student contribution calculated according to NYU’s institutional formula (“Maximum LRAP-Eligible Debt”)"
According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.
Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.
Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!
- airwrecka
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Like Leliana said, at the Admitted Students Days, they confirmed student contribution is INeligible for LRAP. However, I have no idea how they could ever calculate your contribution to be $45000/year! I included my parents' info on the form and I still only had a $5000/year contribution. Definitely call and ask how they came to that number...brennakate wrote:I'm having a heck of a time understanding the particulars of NYU's LRAP, and was hoping someone could help.
From the website: "The amount of debt qualifying for consideration by the Program (“Qualifying Debt”) is the lesser of: The original principal of the participant’s actual law school loans (“Actual Debt”), as defined above, or an amount equal to three years (six semesters) of the standard student expense budget less aid received and less the student contribution calculated according to NYU’s institutional formula (“Maximum LRAP-Eligible Debt”)"
According to my financial aid package, my "student contribution" is supposed to be ~$45,000 each year. I have almost no assets. Am I correct in my reading of the program, that this ~$135,000 is debt that is NOT eligible for LRAP forgiveness? I've sent two emails to financial aid but have not heard back, and have deposit deadlines from other schools coming up this week.
Also, I'm at a complete loss as to how their calculations indicate that I can swing this money out-of-pocket. The only thing I can think of is that I did not include parental assets on my financial aid application. I understood that this would preclude me from need-based scholarships, but had no idea that this would impact my eligibility for LRAP down the line.
Any insight/feedback y'all could provide is much appreciated!
- luckyirish13
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Very sure. I feel the same way.luckyirish13 wrote:You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't prior loans and law school loans get lumped together in PAYE or IBR?
I was looking at Michigan's LRAP and it mentions only covering MLaw loans. How would they differentiate the loans and payments for each?
I was looking at Michigan's LRAP and it mentions only covering MLaw loans. How would they differentiate the loans and payments for each?
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Yes, they get lumped together in PAYE. Assuming the program requires you to get on PAYE, then they will pay the the PAYE monthly rate based on the proportion of law debt to total debt. So if your monthly PAYE bill is $300/month, and 2/3 of your debt is law, then your benefit is $200/monthEarlskies wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't prior loans and law school loans get lumped together in PAYE or IBR?
I was looking at Michigan's LRAP and it mentions only covering MLaw loans. How would they differentiate the loans and payments for each?
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- cavalier1138
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Well, it can't be $4,500, because the lowest annual contribution is $5,000, regardless of income bracket. But I've literally never heard of someone being told their contribution was expected to be $45,000 annually. Are you sure it wasn't $45,000 total ($15,000 a year)? That would be much more in keeping with how they usually calculate the contribution.brennakate wrote:Very sure. I feel the same way.luckyirish13 wrote:You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Because I'm an idiot when it comes to numbers, can someone do a breakdown of CLS vs NYU again? I've read all of the posts on this thread and still feel lost - dummy language would be so, so appreciated!cavalier1138 wrote:Well, it can't be $4,500, because the lowest annual contribution is $5,000, regardless of income bracket. But I've literally never heard of someone being told their contribution was expected to be $45,000 annually. Are you sure it wasn't $45,000 total ($15,000 a year)? That would be much more in keeping with how they usually calculate the contribution.brennakate wrote:Very sure. I feel the same way.luckyirish13 wrote:You sure it wasn't $4,500? The extra zero seems really excessive.brennakate wrote:$45,000 each year.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU
- cavalier1138
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.cavalier1138 wrote:Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU
These are little differences, but they matter.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).Nebby wrote:Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.cavalier1138 wrote:Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU
These are little differences, but they matter.
Last edited by GreenEggs on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- cavalier1138
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
The net asset cap includes your loans. So you'd have to make a ton of money to hit the mark.DCfilterDC wrote:Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).Nebby wrote:Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.cavalier1138 wrote:Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU
These are little differences, but they matter.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
You're thinking year 1. But year 8-10 of LRAP, or even just year 10. Can't put away for a house down payment, can't really accumulate much long-term. Not to mention jointly with your spouse, if applicable.cavalier1138 wrote:The net asset cap includes your loans. So you'd have to make a ton of money to hit the mark.DCfilterDC wrote:Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).Nebby wrote:Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.cavalier1138 wrote:Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU
These are little differences, but they matter.
Last edited by GreenEggs on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- cavalier1138
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Unless you're paying the debt down on the non-PSLF plan, that's still not going to be that much of an issue. You'll actually have more debt in year 8 than year 1 under an IBR or PAYE plan.DCfilterDC wrote:You're thinking year 1. But year 8-10 of LRAP, or even just year 10. Can't put away for a house down payment, can't really accumulate much long-term. Not to mention jointly with your spouse, if applicable.cavalier1138 wrote:The net asset cap includes your loans. So you'd have to make a ton of money to hit the mark.DCfilterDC wrote:Yeah I didn't think 15k minimum was a little difference. Plus NYU has that 20k net asset cap which to me makes zero sense. Though I give NYU props for including 10k bar loan and a 2k computer loan in LRAP, both of which CLS does not cover (though the first two points make CLS LRAP far superior imho).Nebby wrote:Plus, qualifying debt is all debt incurred to finance your law education up to the maximum amount allowed under CLS' cost of attendance calculation available on its financial aid. For NYU, the qualifying debt is the total cost of attendance debt MINUS an estimated student contribution. I.e., if you pulled out 200k to attend and as part of your initial financial aid package upon admission the school thought you could contribute 5k a year, that means the total covered debt is only 185k. At CLS, it would have been all 200k.cavalier1138 wrote:Pretty much this. CLS gives you more flexibility in choosing a payment plan. That's the major difference, but it's an important one.Nebby wrote:The shortest answer is that CLS' LRAP is better than NYU
These are little differences, but they matter.
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
Ah sorry forgot they require you to be on the PSLF plan.cavalier1138 wrote:
Unless you're paying the debt down on the non-PSLF plan, that's still not going to be that much of an issue. You'll actually have more debt in year 8 than year 1 under an IBR or PAYE plan.
Last edited by GreenEggs on Fri Jan 26, 2018 8:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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- cavalier1138
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Re: T-14 LRAP Overview
I'd take Michigan and Penn off the list, since they require IBR, which means it doesn't matter if the school technically covers a non-PSLF job.Monday wrote:For the schools that cover employment outside of 501(c)(3) and the government (HYS, Columbia, Michigan, and Penn), it should be noted that the LRAP awards for those graduates will be taxed.
Yale: No supplemental award to offset the taxed amount (the students and alumni's petition to reinstate supplement is currently pending)
Stanford: "To the extent possible, the law school will supplement the LRAP benefit"
Harvard: "In those instances, the LIPP award includes an additional 25% allowance"
Columbia: Nothing. Cue: The Apology of Nebby.
Penn: "The TolLRAP Counselor will review applications for additional assistance based on these tax consequences on a case by case basis"
Michigan: I don't see the LRAP policy online. The FAQs and the PPT do not address this issue.
And just to clarify the above convo: NYU does have a non-PSLF plan, but you have to do the IBR/PSLF route if you're eligible. I don't know the tax situation for NYU's non-PSLF plan, but since they don't mention it, I think it probably gets added in.
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