Debevoise

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
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cdotson2

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Re: Debevoise

Postby cdotson2 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:22 pm

Mokosc is weirdly aggressive, and created his/her account on July 26th. Blekin created his/her account on july 28th. Possibly same person, but Goran created their account in 2007, so it is highly unlikely to be the OP of the thread. Especially when you consider the initial facts of this thread (that a summer found a list and the firm has had meetings about it) have been confirmed.
Last edited by cdotson2 on Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Mokosc

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:23 pm

Otavia81 wrote:
Goran wrote:Debevoise is not the only big firm that has these issues with race\diversity. But firms don't wear the racism on their faces and a black associate won't have hard evidence that it exists. You might see it in the treatment of AA lawyers but you never really have a smoking gun to show an employment lawyer. If this blacklist exists and shows that the issue at Debevoise is actually institutional then they messed up bigly by letting that list get out.


Goran says Bigly.


Is that my username? And by the way Trump actually uses “bigly”. You’re not very good at this so let’s stay focused.

And I’m not invested but very curious to see how all this shapes up. Don’t get all worked up because some of us are actually progressive.

But you know who’s definitely invested? You created a login today and ALLL of your posts have been in this thread. All to make it look like its one person’s conspiracy. Yea lets just forget the posts of the people who actually said it happened and were there.

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Mokosc

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:26 pm

User otavia81 is definitely not a student. This is definitely someone connected to Debevoise.

Mods can check the IP addresses to confirm if any user is the same.

Otavia81

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:31 pm

cdotson2 wrote:Mokosc is weirdly aggressive, and created his/her account on July 26th. Blekin created his/her account on july 28th. Possibly same person, but Goran created their account in 2007, so it is highly unlikely to be the OP of the thread.

I think Goran is the original account and the rest are aliases he made to get back at this firm.

I think this person is an associate because he is really mad and has put a lot of work into this. It’s like an angry ex writing.

I think OP and his aliases said he was a summer associate to hide who he is.

I need the mods to check IPs and locations.

I bet they will all be the same or weird, as if someone is masking IPs.

Otavia81

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:34 pm

Mokosc wrote:
Otavia81 wrote:
Goran wrote:Debevoise is not the only big firm that has these issues with race\diversity. But firms don't wear the racism on their faces and a black associate won't have hard evidence that it exists. You might see it in the treatment of AA lawyers but you never really have a smoking gun to show an employment lawyer. If this blacklist exists and shows that the issue at Debevoise is actually institutional then they messed up bigly by letting that list get out.


Goran says Bigly.


Is that my username? And by the way Trump actually uses “bigly”. You’re not very good at this so let’s stay focused.

And I’m not invested but very curious to see how all this shapes up. Don’t get all worked up because some of us are actually progressive.

But you know who’s definitely invested? You created a login today and ALLL of your posts have been in this thread. All to make it look like its one person’s conspiracy. Yea lets just forget the posts of the people who actually said it happened and were there.


Sure.

Explain the similarities in posting style between you and your aliases.

Explain how you all claim such oddly detailed knowledge.

Explain how you and the other one know about the same, really specific incident.

This is all bullshit and you are a really bad person to play around with people like this.

Find a better way to handle your anger.

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Mokosc

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:38 pm

You do realize that the OP has not returned to this thread even after we started posting right? You’re working very hard to spin this so thread goes out of control and TLS is forced to shut the thread. Isn’t that right? I won’t fall for it.

Let’s all just watch Otavia and not engage so he or she can go crazy alone. I won’t give you pleasure of using me to delete this thread.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:42 pm

Mokosc wrote:User otavia81 is definitely not a student. This is definitely someone connected to Debevoise.

Mods can check the IP addresses to confirm if any user is the same.

Everyone who disagrees is Debevoise?

You keep bringing it all back to that firm...because this is a personal hit job.

I think someone there passed you over or fired you or smacked you down in a review or or stole your girl or something.

Bringing up that old list from that old thread and keeping this hit thread alive is your payback to them.

You’re scaring people and playing with people’s decisions. It’s not cool.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:46 pm

Mokosc wrote:You do realize that the OP has not returned to this thread even after we started posting right? You’re working very hard to spin this so thread goes out of control and TLS is forced to shut the thread. Isn’t that right? I won’t fall for it.

Let’s all just watch Otavia and not engage so he or she can go crazy alone. I won’t give you pleasure of using me to delete this thread.

You are OP.

I hope this thread stays up and your firm tries to find you.

They can compare the writing style to work you’ve done. If I can figure you out, someone else can too.

People like me come here for real info and honesty. Using that to get even is bad. I won’t be quiet about that.

You can call me names if you want.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:47 pm

Otavia81 wrote:
Mokosc wrote:User otavia81 is definitely not a student. This is definitely someone connected to Debevoise.

Mods can check the IP addresses to confirm if any user is the same.

Everyone who disagrees is Debevoise?

You keep bringing it all back to that firm...because this is a personal hit job.

I think someone there passed you over or fired you or smacked you down in a review or or stole your girl or something.

Bringing up that old list from that old thread and keeping this hit thread alive is your payback to them.

You’re scaring people and playing with people’s decisions. It’s not cool.


Am at a firm definitely not called Debevoise and can prove it. If Mods are willing to step in let’s send our work contact info and have them confirm our identities. I know you’re going to come up as a Debevoise employee. If you’re not willing then there’s nothing more to discuss.

Otavia81

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Fri Aug 03, 2018 6:52 pm

Mokosc wrote:
Otavia81 wrote:
Mokosc wrote:User otavia81 is definitely not a student. This is definitely someone connected to Debevoise.

Mods can check the IP addresses to confirm if any user is the same.

Everyone who disagrees is Debevoise?

You keep bringing it all back to that firm...because this is a personal hit job.

I think someone there passed you over or fired you or smacked you down in a review or or stole your girl or something.

Bringing up that old list from that old thread and keeping this hit thread alive is your payback to them.

You’re scaring people and playing with people’s decisions. It’s not cool.


Am a firm definitely not called Debevoise and can prove it. If Mods are willing to step in let’s send our work contact info and have them confirm our identities. I know you’re going to come up as a Debevoise employee. If you’re not willing then there’s nothing more to discuss.

I am a student.

Mods can check IPs and locations.

You don’t decide what there is and is not to discuss.

You’re attacking to avoid answering the similar styles I called out in your aliases and other points I’ve made.

Also, see how your aliases have been silent for a while now. You have to take turns writing as them. You aren’t good at this.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Goran » Fri Aug 03, 2018 10:54 pm

Cdotson2, I'm not sure what you were doing but you reworded my post to make it look like I was calling attention to the N Word that a partner used and the firm still kept them around. That is false.

This is what I actually wrote -

I remember two lit partners at Debevoise were a bit loose with their use of colorful language while addressing AA associates. The male partner parted ways with the firm, or maybe it was the other way around, some years back but doubtful it was over an issue like racial discrimination. The female lit partner is known for casually dropping the N word in safe spaces but screwed up bigly by doing one day while in a room with another analyst, an associate, and bingo, an African American associate. Said partner was mortified and apologized right away and then followed up with the AA associate to make sure they were good. Dont know if the AA associate actually reported. The partner is still at the firm, mind you, long after the rest of us have left. So there's that. Doesn't mean anything will actually happen so might want to ease up on crusader chronicles.


This is what Cdotson2 changed and misquoted my post to which everyone ran off with -

cdotson2 wrote:
Goran wrote:The female lit partner is known for casually dropping the N word in safe spaces but screwed up bigly by doing one day while in a room with another analyst, an associate, and bingo, an African American associate. The partner is still at the firm.


Uhm what?


I did not say or inference that the partner called the associate the N word. I said she used the word when an African American associate was in the room. African Americans do have a problem with a white person using the N word even in casual conversation. I brought up the situation to highlight a point which is, you shouldnt be a crusader because it doesnt mean a partner's ((maybe unintended)) offensive conduct will result in drastic action being taken. I repeat, I was not saying that Debevoise is a place where partners go about calling their associates the N word.



Mokosc wrote: $hit just got real. Said partner wouldn't be a former AUSA in the lower part of Manhattan would she? :roll: How sad that "casually" was my tipoff HMPFF! If its her then she tried some cases alongside one of my older siblings who told me some crazy war stories about her. Hell of a lawyer but she has issues.


No it is not. I don't know who you are referring to but that is not the partner I am talking about. The person I am talking about got along fine but she assumed she was in a safe space when she used the bad language. As I already said she was remorseful and apologized when she realized the African American associate was in the room. I used it as an example of when an action that can cause hurt might still not get disciplined so dont be a crusader.



I don't have time to quote Otavia81 the "student". You wrote too many posts and you typed with 16pt line breaks. I am not one of the other posters who can sit on a computer posting away and trading insults with complete strangers when I have full time work. Sounds like something a student on summer break can do but I can't. Today was the first day I even checked this site in almost a week.

I posted my experience and observations of a former employer that did right by me. I have no issues against Debevoise. All I did was write my honest account of the different standards I saw at Debevoise and the bias of casting African American associates in negative light when these associates are actually quality lawyers. I also mentioned the case of the female partner today. Other than those two posts the only other thing I said is for OP to be careful. I stopped giving that advice almost a week ago when OP stopped responding. My posts are not part of some secret agenda to hurt Debevoise. It is a great firm but an understandably tough one for African American associates. I believed that back then and think it might still be the case based on stuff that has been covered and released recently. To recite my first post -The leadership just needs to address this honestly and come to terms with these issues.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby marquesb » Sat Aug 04, 2018 2:17 am

Otavia81 wrote:
Mokosc wrote:You do realize that the OP has not returned to this thread even after we started posting right? You’re working very hard to spin this so thread goes out of control and TLS is forced to shut the thread. Isn’t that right? I won’t fall for it.

Let’s all just watch Otavia and not engage so he or she can go crazy alone. I won’t give you pleasure of using me to delete this thread.

You are OP.

I hope this thread stays up and your firm tries to find you.

They can compare the writing style to work you’ve done. If I can figure you out, someone else can too.

People like me come here for real info and honesty. Using that to get even is bad. I won’t be quiet about that.

You can call me names if you want.


1. You never worked at Debevoise. How would you know if they're lying about how Debevoise treats black people?
2. You're not a moderator. How would you know OP is sockpuppeting?

You just accused black people of wrongdoing without a scintilla of evidence. You're a perfect example of what they have to deal with every day. It's chilling, and you're a disgusting racist. I wish I knew who you were.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:13 am

Not surprising that Goran is backpeddling quickly.

Goran, you and your aliases said a female litigation partner who used to be an AUSA in lower Manhattan and has a big laugh casually said the N word in the presence of an African American associate. Plus you said she is known for doing this. That is a really damaging accusation.

As soon as I called you out, you came back to pretend you were misquoted by cdotson. You weren’t.

You said you don’t have time, but you sure wrote a lot for someone so busy.

Now, I am definitely convinced OP/Goran/Moskosk/Belkin and the other aliases here are all the work of an associate.

You’re scared someone at that firm will see this thread and realize an associate has been trying to screw the firm publicly.

What you have been doing is illegal.

You should be scared.

Like I said, if I can notice the similar writing styles, someone else can too.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:46 am

Otavia has serious issues and I don’t believe for a second this person isn’t a Debevoise associate trying to twist this whole thing. Go back and read page 4 again. READ READ READ

+ Goran said he remembered a partner used the n-word when a black associate was in the room. Goran clearly wrote the partner was sorry and fixed things withe associate. Goran’s full post included lots of extra info that makes it clear this wasn’t alleging the partner called anyone the n-word. Only that she said the word in a room. Cdotson2 cut out so much of that post while using a quote block so it looked like the partner had used the n-word and the firm knew but did nothing. It is all there clear as a Memphis day.

+ Belkin said they knew about the incident and it wasnt a big deal because the partner apologized. Clearly goes along with the incident not being a big deal after all.

+ I obviously didnt realize Cdotson2 had changed the original post and misquoted Goran. So I didnt know why people would say it wasn’t a big deal. All I did was ask if the partner was someone that had worked with my sibling.

You are trying way to hard for a “student”. You made multiple names one of which is TLSPoster1990.

Edit - Cdotson should tell us why he changed Goran’s post in the way he did. It caused a lot of confusion.
Last edited by Mokosc on Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:57 am, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 8:52 am

Mokosc wrote:Otavia has serious issues and I don’t believe for a second this person isn’t a Debevoise associate trying to twist this whole thing. Go back and read page 4 again. READ
+ Goran said he remembered a partner used n-word when a black associate was in the room but the full post included lots of extra info that Cdotson2 should not have cut out when he supposedly quoted Goran.

+ Belkin said they knew about the incident and it wasnt a big deal because the partner apologized.

+ I obviously didnt realize Cdotson2 had changed the original post and misquoted Goran. All I did was ask if the partner was someone that had worked with my sibling.

You are trying way to hard for a “student”. You made multiple names one of which is TLSPoster1990.

Right on cue.

One alias here to defend the others.

You’re really obvious and I think this thread is going to find its way to that firm you tried to publicly shame.

They’ll figure out who you are.

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Mokosc

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:05 am

Otavia81 wrote:
One alias here to defend the others.

You’re really obvious and I think this thread is going to find its way to that firm you tried to publicly shame.

They’ll figure out who you are.


Now who’s backpedaling? We all know Debevoise knows about this thread. An entire ATL article was linked to it and now you’re saying maybe the thread that caused all this $hit will find its way to the firm. Cut the $hit. You’re now trying to distance yourself from Debevoise. You’re one of underlings they talked about in here arent you?

You didnt realize there was a way to link you to the other accounts you created before you created this one yesterday.

It is you that’s going to get caught for trying to start $hit. All of you underlings will be exposed.

Go back and tell your friends it didn’t work.

You ducked my offer to exchange info so we can see who’s the fake on here doing their firm’s dirty job. You claim to be a student thats fine. That info will do just fine. I am ready whenever you are. We just need to PM the mods and get this going.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:22 am

Mokosc wrote:
Otavia81 wrote:
One alias here to defend the others.

You’re really obvious and I think this thread is going to find its way to that firm you tried to publicly shame.

They’ll figure out who you are.


Now who’s backpedaling? We all know Debevoise knows about this thread. An entire ATL article was linked to it and now you’re saying maybe the thread that caused all this $hit will find its way to the firm. Cut the $hit. You’re now trying to distance yourself from Debevoise. You’re one of underlings they talked about in here arent you?

You didnt realize there was a way to link you to the other accounts you created before you created this one yesterday.

It is you that’s going to get caught for trying to start $hit. All of you underlings will be exposed.

Go back and tell your friends it didn’t work.

You ducked my offer to exchange info so we can see who’s the fake on here doing their firm’s dirty job. You claim to be a student thats fine. That info will do just fine. I am ready whenever you are. We just need to PM the mods and get this going.

I don’t have any aliases.

You haven’t denied that you have aliases here. You haven’t addressed any of the similarities I pointed out.

Instead, you’re attacking. You’re lying on cdotson. You’re acccusing everyone of being sent by Debevois. You’re trying to find out my info. You’re logging in back and forth under your various aliases.

You’re really dumb to think you could keep creating aliases and no one would notice.

Don’t bother having the thread deleted because I have screenshots and so do a bunch of other people.

You better hope your firm doesn’t hire an expert to analyze black associate writing samples against this thread. You’ve messed up.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:35 am

Otavia81 wrote: You better hope your firm doesn’t hire an expert to analyze black associate writing samples against this thread. You’ve messed up.


This has been the most disturbing post in this thread. What is wrong with you people over there?

Why is it wrong for people to speak out against racial bias? What you wrote was very low. You’re not a law student.

No one wants this thread deleted. You clearly do. You’re trying everything. Your other username TLSPoster1990 posted a detailed account of what happened at a Debevoise meeting, which I’m sure violates some portion of your firm’s policy. You are clearly affiliated with Debevoise but what you wrote was definitely not at the firm’s request. You’re a hateful underling trying to silence people.

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Mokosc

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Mokosc » Sat Aug 04, 2018 9:38 am

I also don’t have any aliases and I have offered for both of us to identify ourselves by using forum moderators as independent verifiers. Why are you avoiding this? Why?

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Goran » Sat Aug 04, 2018 10:59 am

Otavia81 wrote:
Mokosc wrote:
Otavia81 wrote:You better hope your firm doesn’t hire an expert to analyze black associate writing samples against this thread. You’ve messed up.


Otavia81, I had decided I will no longer post here but I read what you wrote. This is not right. We're talking about how bad it is to be biased and use race to give or withdraw opportunities. What you wrote comes from a bad place and proposes Debevoise use race as criteria to determine if its associates posted in this forum thread. But focus only on the African American associates. What about the white associates who could've posted? This is very bad Otavia81. This is an anonymous forum and the constitution allows everyone, without race consideration, to post their opinion. We should still try to show respect for one another.

Many firms are likely experiencing the issues we talk about but they have not had to confront it. Debevoise is the firm that was put into a spotlight. Other firms can see the article and the examples of bias which are not allows deliberate, and try to address it inside their own firm but quietly. One thing we know is Debevoise was told about this, in a public way, and is trying to address it. That is the standup thing to do and I clap for Debevoise for doing that.

I could see from your first post that you wanted to change the focus of this thread. You didn't post any discussion about Debevoise or the culture. You immediately directed attacks at people and also me. You claim to be a law student but refuse to read my actual post on page four which is posted right before Cdotson's twisted version. Why won't you read what I wrote? Because you have an agenda to close the thread, I see that. It is a very uncomfortable topic and likely more for people at Debevoise. But I disagree with your methods of closing the thread this way. Using race to divide people more. That is very bad. Mokosck also did not help things and has walked holding hands with you to ruin this thread.

The creator of the thread hasnt posted in over a week so it is likely best to close this because this conversation is not helpful or constructive. And it will only get worse. You now have anonymous posters trying to turn people against one another. Very soon people will start posting actual names of partners and associates and it will get bad and that's when the line is crossed and people will need lawyers. Congratulations to Octavia81 and Mokosck for your work to ruin this thread.

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Otavia81 » Sat Aug 04, 2018 11:41 am

Now Goran wants the thread closed.

You wanted it open before you got called out.

Funny how Moskosk hasn’t accused Goran of being one of the firm’s agents for wanting the thread closed.

You are so obvious.

dixiecup

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Re: Debevoise

Postby dixiecup » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:13 pm

Otavia81 wrote:Don’t bother having the thread deleted because I have screenshots and so do a bunch of other people.

You better hope your firm doesn’t hire an expert to analyze black associate writing samples against this thread. You’ve messed up.


What exactly are you threatening here?

dixiecup

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Re: Debevoise

Postby dixiecup » Sat Aug 04, 2018 6:23 pm

cdotson2 wrote:Mokosc is weirdly aggressive


What did they say that was "aggressive?"

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Toni V

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Re: Debevoise

Postby Toni V » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:15 pm

Stop.

dixiecup

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Re: Debevoise

Postby dixiecup » Sat Aug 04, 2018 7:30 pm

Toni V wrote:Stop.


Not so fast. Otavia made a detailed threat. She said she "and a bunch of other people" have screenshots of this thread, and she warned that an expert will "analyze black associate writing samples" to see which black Debevoise associate posted here. OK. You found them. It's James Smith in office 247 on the 42nd floor. What are you and your friends going to do to them Otavia?



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