AA Female low LSAT and GPA

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
mjb77

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AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby mjb77 » Mon Apr 02, 2018 8:06 pm

I have a 147 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. I AM NOT RETAKING THE LSAT THIS CYCLE, so please no comments on how I should retake it. I'm just looking for advice on how to more forward. I have 3 LOR, an addendum for my GPA, a personal statement about wanting to go into disability law, a diversity statement, and I have a good resume. Does anyone have any advice on where I should apply? I appreciate any positive and constructive feedback.

Justtrying2help

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Justtrying2help » Mon Apr 02, 2018 9:52 pm

mjb77 wrote:I have a 147 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. I AM NOT RETAKING THE LSAT THIS CYCLE, so please no comments on how I should retake it. I'm just looking for advice on how to more forward. I have 3 LOR, an addendum for my GPA, a personal statement about wanting to go into disability law, a diversity statement, and I have a good resume. Does anyone have any advice on where I should apply? I appreciate any positive and constructive feedback.


I am a black male who was able to gain acceptances with $$$ to some top schools with a similar gpa and a much higher lsat score (12-15 points higher). Law is a prestige based industry. Firms and organizations look at your school and 1L gpa and determine your entire value from that. Being diverse helps in admissions but it doesn't help with employment. Some firms and organizations have diversity programs, but they too want black students who dominate at top law schools. Offers of employment (including diversity program offers) are not charity nor are they easy to obtain for black students from top schools. Black students at lower ranked schools struggle to find employment if they don't (1) pass the bar (statistics show that students with your score struggle), (2) have decent 1L grades, (3) network hard, and (4) fit the "culture" of the organization. No school worth anything will accept you nor will they give you a scholarship that will make it worth attending with your current lsat score. Honestly, there are very few ways for you to move forward with a score that low unless you get a full ride or have excellent connections. I know a few black students who attended lower ranked law schools and graduated jobless without any legitimate prospects for employment. That is unfortunately common if you look at the statistics found with a simple google search. Top schools have less of an issue with this. If you insist on attending, realize that you will have to work extremely hard to stand out. Retaking the lsat is much easier than the challenge you are attempting to undertake. 7sage's lsat starter package is under $200 and would likely a worthy investment for you. I would strongly urge you to retake. If you choose to attend law school as is, good luck.

L_William_W

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby L_William_W » Tue Apr 03, 2018 12:58 pm

mjb77 wrote:I have a 147 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. I AM NOT RETAKING THE LSAT THIS CYCLE, so please no comments on how I should retake it. I'm just looking for advice on how to more forward. I have 3 LOR, an addendum for my GPA, a personal statement about wanting to go into disability law, a diversity statement, and I have a good resume. Does anyone have any advice on where I should apply? I appreciate any positive and constructive feedback.


CUNY School of Law in NYC has a program for minority students with mediocre LSAT scores. The program provides free test prep for the LSAT. If the student participates in the program and scores over 150, they're in.

http://www.law.cuny.edu/academics/social-justice/pipeline.html

albanach

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby albanach » Tue Apr 03, 2018 1:30 pm

mjb77 wrote:I appreciate any positive and constructive feedback.


People are being constructive when they tell you to retake. As mentioned above, absent significant wealth that would allow you to attend law school and accumulate no debt, it does not make sense to apply with those stats.

As to something positive, there are guides on here that can help you master the test. Follow the LSAT strategies, ask questions on the forum when you don't understand an answer, and you will see that LSAT score improve.

mjb77

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby mjb77 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 2:09 pm

Justtrying2help wrote:
mjb77 wrote:I have a 147 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. I AM NOT RETAKING THE LSAT THIS CYCLE, so please no comments on how I should retake it. I'm just looking for advice on how to more forward. I have 3 LOR, an addendum for my GPA, a personal statement about wanting to go into disability law, a diversity statement, and I have a good resume. Does anyone have any advice on where I should apply? I appreciate any positive and constructive feedback.


I am a black male who was able to gain acceptances with $$$ to some top schools with a similar gpa and a much higher lsat score (12-15 points higher). Law is a prestige based industry. Firms and organizations look at your school and 1L gpa and determine your entire value from that. Being diverse helps in admissions but it doesn't help with employment. Some firms and organizations have diversity programs, but they too want black students who dominate at top law schools. Offers of employment (including diversity program offers) are not charity nor are they easy to obtain for black students from top schools. Black students at lower ranked schools struggle to find employment if they don't (1) pass the bar (statistics show that students with your score struggle), (2) have decent 1L grades, (3) network hard, and (4) fit the "culture" of the organization. No school worth anything will accept you nor will they give you a scholarship that will make it worth attending with your current lsat score. Honestly, there are very few ways for you to move forward with a score that low unless you get a full ride or have excellent connections. I know a few black students who attended lower ranked law schools and graduated jobless without any legitimate prospects for employment. That is unfortunately common if you look at the statistics found with a simple google search. Top schools have less of an issue with this. If you insist on attending, realize that you will have to work extremely hard to stand out. Retaking the lsat is much easier than the challenge you are attempting to undertake. 7sage's lsat starter package is under $200 and would likely a worthy investment for you. I would strongly urge you to retake. If you choose to attend law school as is, good luck.



Thank you for your thoughtful insight. I truly will take it into consideration. However, you spoke more about the employment sector rather than law school admissions. You stated that you know people who have graduated from low ranked schools and are jobless. But I know people who have graduated from tier 2 and 3 schools and they have federal clerkships and are working along side harvard and upenn grads. It's not necessarily what degree you have, its about what you do with it. If I'm in the top 10% of my class I can very well be employed at a great job regardless of the university I attend. I want to go into public interest law, so attending a top law school is not necessary for me. I know the kind of hard working individual I can be and the rest of my application spells that out. So if anyone can give me advice on where to apply, I would truly appreciate it. And if it doesn't work out for this cycle, I will retake and apply again next cycle. But I'm looking for advice for my cycle right now. Thank you

Loquitur Res

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Loquitur Res » Wed Apr 04, 2018 5:50 pm

mjb77 wrote:
Justtrying2help wrote:
mjb77 wrote:I have a 147 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. I AM NOT RETAKING THE LSAT THIS CYCLE, so please no comments on how I should retake it. I'm just looking for advice on how to more forward. I have 3 LOR, an addendum for my GPA, a personal statement about wanting to go into disability law, a diversity statement, and I have a good resume. Does anyone have any advice on where I should apply? I appreciate any positive and constructive feedback.


I am a black male who was able to gain acceptances with $$$ to some top schools with a similar gpa and a much higher lsat score (12-15 points higher). Law is a prestige based industry. Firms and organizations look at your school and 1L gpa and determine your entire value from that. Being diverse helps in admissions but it doesn't help with employment. Some firms and organizations have diversity programs, but they too want black students who dominate at top law schools. Offers of employment (including diversity program offers) are not charity nor are they easy to obtain for black students from top schools. Black students at lower ranked schools struggle to find employment if they don't (1) pass the bar (statistics show that students with your score struggle), (2) have decent 1L grades, (3) network hard, and (4) fit the "culture" of the organization. No school worth anything will accept you nor will they give you a scholarship that will make it worth attending with your current lsat score. Honestly, there are very few ways for you to move forward with a score that low unless you get a full ride or have excellent connections. I know a few black students who attended lower ranked law schools and graduated jobless without any legitimate prospects for employment. That is unfortunately common if you look at the statistics found with a simple google search. Top schools have less of an issue with this. If you insist on attending, realize that you will have to work extremely hard to stand out. Retaking the lsat is much easier than the challenge you are attempting to undertake. 7sage's lsat starter package is under $200 and would likely a worthy investment for you. I would strongly urge you to retake. If you choose to attend law school as is, good luck.



Thank you for your thoughtful insight. I truly will take it into consideration. However, you spoke more about the employment sector rather than law school admissions. You stated that you know people who have graduated from low ranked schools and are jobless. But I know people who have graduated from tier 2 and 3 schools and they have federal clerkships and are working along side harvard and upenn grads. It's not necessarily what degree you have, its about what you do with it. If I'm in the top 10% of my class I can very well be employed at a great job regardless of the university I attend. I want to go into public interest law, so attending a top law school is not necessary for me. I know the kind of hard working individual I can be and the rest of my application spells that out. So if anyone can give me advice on where to apply, I would truly appreciate it. And if it doesn't work out for this cycle, I will retake and apply again next cycle. But I'm looking for advice for my cycle right now. Thank you


If you get into a school, you will likely need to be in the top 10% or very lucky to have a good job after graduation. You say "I know the kind of hard working individual I can be and the rest of my application spells that out." The problem is that pretty much everyone going into law school thinks the same thing, and 9 out of 10 will not be in the top 10%. What makes you think you can work so much harder than everyone else when you don't put in the effort on the LSAT? Even if you are in the top 10%, that is no guarantee of a good job after graduation. I know at least one person in my class in the top 10% and on LR who still does not have a job.

Also, you state that you want to go into public interest. While those jobs pay less and are often less picky about grades/ law school pedigree (the top PI positions can still be very picky), they are NOT easier to get. This may seem counter-intuitive, but those jobs are just very scarce, even though there is a great need for legal-aid type positions. I am a month from graduating from a T2 that is well regarded in my state, and almost everyone I know in my class that was exclusively looking for public interest is still looking for a job. I can see the desperation in their eyes. Everything seems great at admitted student's day and when you land your first summer internship, but as a 3L I can tell you it is not fun when you are just a month from graduation and 60% of the class has no job and is looking at six-figure debt.

Bottom line, there are law schools that will take you, but do you will have a slim shot at getting the job you want and you will likely get very little in scholarship money. A quick search on http://lawschoolnumbers.com/ or https://www.lstreports.com/ will give you insight into schools that take students with sub-150 LSAT scores. The question you have to answer is, do you really want to go to a school where you have a 10% chance of landing the job you want? And are you willing to take on hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt to take that chance? The type of debt that will prevent you from getting approved for a mortgage; where even if you manage the minimum payments, your balance increases because those payments don't cover the interest.

sparkytrainer

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby sparkytrainer » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:35 pm

Honestly, if you only have a 3.1 and a 147 and can't be bothered to retake, you are gonna get destroyed in law school. You don't have the academic rigor at the moment, so what evidence do you have that you can do it under more stress and a forced curve?

mjb77

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby mjb77 » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:48 pm

Well you all chewed me up. Thanks for the insight, I do appreciate it. But that was exactly the opposite of what I was looking for. If anyone else has advice on WHERE I SHOULD APPLY I'll gladly listen. Anything else is un-welcomed.

AspiringAspirant

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby AspiringAspirant » Wed Apr 04, 2018 6:53 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:Honestly, if you only have a 3.1 and a 147 and can't be bothered to retake, you are gonna get destroyed in law school. You don't have the academic rigor at the moment, so what evidence do you have that you can do it under more stress and a forced curve?


Seconded. If you won't make the sacrifices necessary to retake and get a decent LSAT score, you won't be willing to do what's necessary to excel in law school; and with your current numbers, you'll have to EXCEL at whatever law school you get in to if you want a job.

If you're not willing to retake this cycle, you shouldn't be willing to go to law school this cycle either.

sparkytrainer

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby sparkytrainer » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:09 pm

mjb77 wrote:Well you all chewed me up. Thanks for the insight, I do appreciate it. But that was exactly the opposite of what I was looking for. If anyone else has advice on WHERE I SHOULD APPLY I'll gladly listen. Anything else is un-welcomed.


Well what you are looking for is just confirmation bias, and we are under no obligation to confirm your very poorly thought out idea. You don't have the academic credentials that suggest you will even do modesty well at any law school.

I don't care what you wanted confirmed because I am telling you the truth. Any school that will even take you isn't worth the time or money. You need to go retake and revaluate your goals.

Loquitur Res

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Loquitur Res » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:31 pm

mjb77 wrote:Well you all chewed me up. Thanks for the insight, I do appreciate it. But that was exactly the opposite of what I was looking for. If anyone else has advice on WHERE I SHOULD APPLY I'll gladly listen. Anything else is un-welcomed.


I think what people are saying is that you shouldn't apply, anywhere. At least not this cycle.

On the other hand, if you want to know what schools might admit you, there are plenty of resources online. I posted links to two websites in my prior post that have information admission/jobs/bar passage rate.

Here are two other resources for understanding your chances of admission to a given school.

http://www.hourumd.com/?lsat=147&gpa=3. ... o&range=no

https://officialguide.lsac.org/release/ ... alsat.aspx

I would look for schools in the region you want to work in that have median lsat/gpa that are close to yours (you will get a bump for being a URM). Then look at their employment statistics (these are publicly available on LST Reports).

Lastly, I want to emphasize that I am NOT saying that law school will never be a good option for you; I am not trying to crush your hopes. You might very well succeed. Its just not a good option without getting your LSAT up.

Justtrying2help

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Justtrying2help » Wed Apr 04, 2018 7:48 pm

mjb77 wrote:Thank you for your thoughtful insight. I truly will take it into consideration. However, you spoke more about the employment sector rather than law school admissions. You stated that you know people who have graduated from low ranked schools and are jobless. But I know people who have graduated from tier 2 and 3 schools and they have federal clerkships and are working along side harvard and upenn grads. It's not necessarily what degree you have, its about what you do with it. If I'm in the top 10% of my class I can very well be employed at a great job regardless of the university I attend. I want to go into public interest law, so attending a top law school is not necessary for me. I know the kind of hard working individual I can be and the rest of my application spells that out. So if anyone can give me advice on where to apply, I would truly appreciate it. And if it doesn't work out for this cycle, I will retake and apply again next cycle. But I'm looking for advice for my cycle right now. Thank you


@mjb77: To address your 3rd sentence, you have to be extremely misguided if the employment part of your decision to attend law school isn't the most important part. You also mention 2nd and 3rd tier schools with great employment outcomes. Exceptions do exists, but you must remember that they are not the rule. Are you willing to bet 3 years of your life and a lot of money for a small chance of success? Some decisions that people make are too risky, even if the best case scenarios are worth it. I'm trying to get you to use logic and data to make a more informed decision. A 3.1 gpa and 147 lsat don't inspire confidence that you have the academic work ethic or natural talent to become a top 10% of the class talent on a forced curve. I hope you can prove the numbers wrong, but the odds are against you. It is extremely difficult to beat out 9/10 of your classmates on a 4 hour exam, no matter how smart your classmates are in comparison. One bad exam could sink you. Your professor may have a bad day when they are reading your exam. Too many variables could alter your life. Also, only 1/3 of all law school applicants score a 147 or lower. This can imply that you will have to work even harder than normal because your logical reasoning, reading speed and comprehension, and analytical reasoning skills are less developed than most of your law school peers. As I mentioned, exceptions do exists. You are supposed to believe in yourself, but you should maximize your chances to get a great outcome before you attend law school. A JD is not a super flexible degree anymore. You will spend 3 years of your life and a substantial amount of money to gain a degree that is not well respected in the legal market. I am speaking from the standpoint of someone who was in your shoes. My cold score was slightly higher than your current score. My score languished until I took a prep course and used some great LSAT books. I got into some of the best schools in the country. I did reasonably well at law school and had my pick of job offers. I'm not saying that you won't, but you are not in the most desirable position to make that happen.

Other things that you learn in law school is that hard work doesn't necessarily equal great grades and that PI jobs are not necessarily easier to get than law firm jobs. I could go on and on. I wish you the best of luck. I'm being so serious because the legal market is rough, especially for people of color. Less than 3% of all attorneys are black males and not many more are black females. You will have to network hard to get people in your corner. You can do it! Also note that everything I said can be substantiated with easily found data.

Justtrying2help

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Justtrying2help » Wed Apr 04, 2018 8:24 pm

Justtrying2help wrote:
mjb77 wrote:Thank you for your thoughtful insight. I truly will take it into consideration. However, you spoke more about the employment sector rather than law school admissions. You stated that you know people who have graduated from low ranked schools and are jobless. But I know people who have graduated from tier 2 and 3 schools and they have federal clerkships and are working along side harvard and upenn grads. It's not necessarily what degree you have, its about what you do with it. If I'm in the top 10% of my class I can very well be employed at a great job regardless of the university I attend. I want to go into public interest law, so attending a top law school is not necessary for me. I know the kind of hard working individual I can be and the rest of my application spells that out. So if anyone can give me advice on where to apply, I would truly appreciate it. And if it doesn't work out for this cycle, I will retake and apply again next cycle. But I'm looking for advice for my cycle right now. Thank you


@mjb77: To address your 3rd sentence, you have to be extremely misguided if the employment part of your decision to attend law school isn't the most important part. You also mention 2nd and 3rd tier schools with great employment outcomes. Exceptions do exists, but you must remember that they are not the rule. Are you willing to bet 3 years of your life and a lot of money for a small chance of success? Some decisions that people make are too risky, even if the best case scenarios are worth it. I'm trying to get you to use logic and data to make a more informed decision. A 3.1 gpa and 147 lsat doesn't inspire confidence that you have the academic work ethic or natural talent to become a top 10% of the class talent on a forced curve. I hope you can prove the numbers wrong, but the odds are against you. It is extremely difficult to beat out 9/10 of your classmates on a 4 hour exam, no matter how smart your classmates are in comparison. One bad exam could sink you. Your professor may have a bad day when they are reading your exam. Too many variables could alter your life. Also, only 1/3 of all law school applicants score a 147 or lower. This can imply that you will have to work even harder than normal because your logical reasoning, reading speed and comprehension, and analytical reasoning skills are less developed than most of your law school peers. As I mentioned, exceptions do exists. You are supposed to believe in yourself, but you should maximize your chances to get a great outcome before you attend law school. A JD is not a super flexible degree anymore. You will spend 3 years of your life and a substantial amount of money to gain a degree that is not well respected in the legal market. I am speaking from the standpoint of someone who was in your shoes. My cold score was slightly higher than your current score. My score languished until I took a prep course and used some great LSAT books. I got into some of the best schools in the country. I did reasonably well at law school and had my pick of job offers. I'm not saying that you won't, but you are not in the most desirable position to make that happen.

Other things that you learn in law school are that hard work doesn't necessarily equal great grades and that PI jobs are not necessarily easier to get than law firm jobs. I could go on and on. I wish you the best of luck. I'm being so serious because the legal market is rough, especially for people of color. Less than 3% of all attorneys are black males and not many more are black females. You will have to network hard to get people in your corner. You can do it! Also note that everything I said can be substantiated with easily found data.

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby snowball2 » Fri Apr 06, 2018 3:03 pm

mjb77 wrote:Thank you for your thoughtful insight. I truly will take it into consideration. However, you spoke more about the employment sector rather than law school admissions. You stated that you know people who have graduated from low ranked schools and are jobless. But I know people who have graduated from tier 2 and 3 schools and they have federal clerkships and are working along side harvard and upenn grads. It's not necessarily what degree you have, its about what you do with it. If I'm in the top 10% of my class I can very well be employed at a great job regardless of the university I attend. I want to go into public interest law, so attending a top law school is not necessary for me. I know the kind of hard working individual I can be and the rest of my application spells that out. So if anyone can give me advice on where to apply, I would truly appreciate it. And if it doesn't work out for this cycle, I will retake and apply again next cycle. But I'm looking for advice for my cycle right now. Thank you


And I personally know people who graduated from T-14's that had a very hard time finding employment, ditto people in the top 10% of lesser-ranked schools (and one person near the top of his unranked school who took 3 years to get a full-time job paying about $60K). The bottom line is that there is no certainty in this process, or, more accurately, the only certainty in the process is that which you can control. Your GPA is what it is; it can't be i,proved at this late stage. Your LSAT is poor but the good news is that it CAN be improved. If you can get it to 160 (at the very least) it can do one of two things, get you into a better school than your current stats would or get you money at a lower-ranked school (but one ranked higher than you could get today). Either of those outcomes is way ahead of anything you can get today. As for ending up at the top 10% of any school you may attend, others have already addressed that. I don't imagine anyone starts law school expecting to be less than a top student, but obviously most fall short of that goal

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Aptitude » Sun Apr 08, 2018 3:42 pm

sparkytrainer wrote:Honestly, if you only have a 3.1 and a 147 and can't be bothered to retake, you are gonna get destroyed in law school. You don't have the academic rigor at the moment, so what evidence do you have that you can do it under more stress and a forced curve?


That's not true. I went to a low ranked law school where there were students waitlisted that ended up in the top 10%.

Undergrad can be way more of a mess than law school. There's this weird assumption on TLS that law school is automatically harder than undergrad. Have you ever taken an electromagnetics final at 8am in a giant, cold gym?

You're taking finals in large rooms with 1000 other people. Often times you're finals isn't even written/administered by the teaching professor, but some faculty head. Sometimes, you're taking a mandarin midterm for a class you don't even care about but you had to take because every other required language elective was already filled.

There's other things too, for a lot of people, they're living away from home for the first time. They're too distracted by new freedoms. The level jump from some high schools to universities is enormous. There are plenty of weeder classes for competitive majors etc.

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BasilHallward

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby BasilHallward » Sun Apr 29, 2018 5:54 pm

Aptitude wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:Honestly, if you only have a 3.1 and a 147 and can't be bothered to retake, you are gonna get destroyed in law school. You don't have the academic rigor at the moment, so what evidence do you have that you can do it under more stress and a forced curve?


That's not true. I went to a low ranked law school where there were students waitlisted that ended up in the top 10%.

Undergrad can be way more of a mess than law school. There's this weird assumption on TLS that law school is automatically harder than undergrad. Have you ever taken an electromagnetics final at 8am in a giant, cold gym?

You're taking finals in large rooms with 1000 other people. Often times you're finals isn't even written/administered by the teaching professor, but some faculty head. Sometimes, you're taking a mandarin midterm for a class you don't even care about but you had to take because every other required language elective was already filled.

There's other things too, for a lot of people, they're living away from home for the first time. They're too distracted by new freedoms. The level jump from some high schools to universities is enormous. There are plenty of weeder classes for competitive majors etc.


None if this is relevant at all. (1) Undergrad = Grade inflation; (2) Law school has a forced curve and your job prospects are strongly dependent on the curve; (3) the financial and time commitment to law school is generally more burdensome than undergrad

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby nixy » Sun Apr 29, 2018 6:35 pm

^ I think the above are all true. I don’t think someone with a low GPA and LSAT is doomed to failure, depending on the circumstances around those scores (life gets in the way for some people).

That said, schools that will admit the OP (even with the URM boost) don’t offer great employment stats, and I don’t think the OP gets that employment stats are what determine where you should apply. You can get a JD that prepares you for any legal job from any school out there; what you want to do is go to a school that will get you a job. It’s also WAY optimistic to assume being top 10% bc you’re hard working.

OP, if you want to know where you’ll get in, go to mylsn.info and plug in your numbers. Admissions is primarily a numbers game, and your other qualities and accomplishments matter only on the margins. Figure out which schools you have a good shot of getting into, then look at their employment stats (either google the school’s ABA report or go to law school transparency).

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Aptitude » Sun Apr 29, 2018 7:00 pm

BasilHallward wrote:
Aptitude wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:Honestly, if you only have a 3.1 and a 147 and can't be bothered to retake, you are gonna get destroyed in law school. You don't have the academic rigor at the moment, so what evidence do you have that you can do it under more stress and a forced curve?


That's not true. I went to a low ranked law school where there were students waitlisted that ended up in the top 10%.

Undergrad can be way more of a mess than law school. There's this weird assumption on TLS that law school is automatically harder than undergrad. Have you ever taken an electromagnetics final at 8am in a giant, cold gym?

You're taking finals in large rooms with 1000 other people. Often times you're finals isn't even written/administered by the teaching professor, but some faculty head. Sometimes, you're taking a mandarin midterm for a class you don't even care about but you had to take because every other required language elective was already filled.

There's other things too, for a lot of people, they're living away from home for the first time. They're too distracted by new freedoms. The level jump from some high schools to universities is enormous. There are plenty of weeder classes for competitive majors etc.


None if this is relevant at all. (1) Undergrad = Grade inflation; (2) Law school has a forced curve and your job prospects are strongly dependent on the curve; (3) the financial and time commitment to law school is generally more burdensome than undergrad


None of that is relevant at all. Well, maybe at your undergrad with your easy major.

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BasilHallward

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby BasilHallward » Mon Apr 30, 2018 10:33 am

Aptitude wrote:
BasilHallward wrote:
Aptitude wrote:
sparkytrainer wrote:Honestly, if you only have a 3.1 and a 147 and can't be bothered to retake, you are gonna get destroyed in law school. You don't have the academic rigor at the moment, so what evidence do you have that you can do it under more stress and a forced curve?


That's not true. I went to a low ranked law school where there were students waitlisted that ended up in the top 10%.

Undergrad can be way more of a mess than law school. There's this weird assumption on TLS that law school is automatically harder than undergrad. Have you ever taken an electromagnetics final at 8am in a giant, cold gym?

You're taking finals in large rooms with 1000 other people. Often times you're finals isn't even written/administered by the teaching professor, but some faculty head. Sometimes, you're taking a mandarin midterm for a class you don't even care about but you had to take because every other required language elective was already filled.

There's other things too, for a lot of people, they're living away from home for the first time. They're too distracted by new freedoms. The level jump from some high schools to universities is enormous. There are plenty of weeder classes for competitive majors etc.


None if this is relevant at all. (1) Undergrad = Grade inflation; (2) Law school has a forced curve and your job prospects are strongly dependent on the curve; (3) the financial and time commitment to law school is generally more burdensome than undergrad


None of that is relevant at all. Well, maybe at your undergrad with your easy major.


Wow. Your exhibitionism is insufferable. I don't what you are so bitter about, but it's manifesting itself in bad advice to prospective law students. Yes, my variables are relevant. Your whole "just work and don't be lazy like everyone on TLS" schtick is getting old.

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Toni V

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Toni V » Mon Apr 30, 2018 11:30 am

mjb77 wrote:Well you all chewed me up. Thanks for the insight, I do appreciate it. But that was exactly the opposite of what I was looking for. If anyone else has advice on WHERE I SHOULD APPLY I'll gladly listen. Anything else is un-welcomed.

Apply to any of the online law schools. They will happily take your money.

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby mjb77 » Tue May 01, 2018 6:06 pm

Thank you to everyone who gave me constructive feedback. I really do appreciate it all, even the harsh opinions. I have been doing pretty good this cycle, and have been in communication with some great schools. I hope things work out for me, and if not, I will retake the LSAT and apply again next cycle. Thank you again everyone.

nixy

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby nixy » Tue May 01, 2018 9:00 pm

When you say "this cycle," do you mean to start in the fall (of 2018), or to start applying in the fall of 2018?

Aptitude

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby Aptitude » Mon May 07, 2018 12:29 pm

mjb77 wrote:Thank you to everyone who gave me constructive feedback. I really do appreciate it all, even the harsh opinions. I have been doing pretty good this cycle, and have been in communication with some great schools. I hope things work out for me, and if not, I will retake the LSAT and apply again next cycle. Thank you again everyone.



"All highly successful people treat life, business, and success just like a nightclub. There are always three ways in.

There’s the First Door, where 99% of people wait in line, hoping to get in.

There’s the Second Door, where billionaires and royalty slip through.

But then there is always, always…the Third Door. It’s the entrance where you have to jump out of line, run down the alley, climb over the dumpster, bang on the door a hundred times, crack open the window, and sneak through the kitchen. But there’s always a way in.

Whether it’s how Bill Gates sold his first piece of software, or how Steven Spielberg became the youngest director at a major studio in Hollywood — they all took the Third Door."

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KT33

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Re: AA Female low LSAT and GPA

Postby KT33 » Mon May 07, 2018 7:48 pm

mjb77 wrote:
Justtrying2help wrote:
mjb77 wrote:I have a 147 LSAT and a 3.1 GPA. I AM NOT RETAKING THE LSAT THIS CYCLE, so please no comments on how I should retake it. I'm just looking for advice on how to more forward. I have 3 LOR, an addendum for my GPA, a personal statement about wanting to go into disability law, a diversity statement, and I have a good resume. Does anyone have any advice on where I should apply? I appreciate any positive and constructive feedback.


I know so many people have said it, but I can't recommend enough retaking the LSAT. I went to a prestigious undergrad, had a low GPA and 155 LSAT and was only able to get into Tier 4 schools. I ended up going right away, was able to transfer into a very low Tier 1, graduated in the top 3% of my class, published a paper, did the clinical program, interned during every semester and summer at several prestigious places including the White House and I STILL never found a career position after graduating and have been out of school for 2 years. I did complete a post-grad federal fellowship, but I have been unemployed for 6 months since it ended and overall I've been unemployed for 8 months since graduating. As a side note - I'm replying to this because I made the exact same statement to my boyfriend (now husband) that you made as I was pursuing public interest work and assumed that it would be easier to land a job no matter what school I went to as long as I had a strong resume and was passionate. That is 100% not the case - so many people want those types of admirable jobs and many, many public interest organizations are almost entirely saturated with Ivy grads. Not to mention it makes them look better for potential donors so they do tend to sadly care more about school and less about accomplishments comparatively (in my experience).

After watching several of my friends graduate from all different ranked schools and seeing how literally all my friends who went to T20 and above got real career positions after graduating, I can't stop kicking myself and thinking that if I would have spent a little longer on the LSAT, I probably would have started my career by now. Also, I know a lot of people are making you out to be lazy for not wanting to retake the LSAT, but I find that very unfair and can totally relate to the feeling of having a lack of resources to retake it and feeling an urgency to get school over with. I don't want to presume anything about why you want to forge ahead, but I do feel that as women, we often have more urgency to stay on a particular timeline and I can at least say that was a big part of my rationale as well. I was working 3 jobs during the LSAT and didn't think I had time or money to study for it again. In reality, I probably could have easily quit my jobs and moved in with a relative for a couple months and just spent those 2 months studying like they were my job. In the end, the logic that going earlier would keep me on a particular timeline couldn't be further from the truth and I definitely feel like the timeline of when if you're ever going to start a career becomes harder and harder to predict the lower ranked school you attend. Anyway, I would do some similar soul searching and see if you think you've really exhausted all the resources you can when it comes to the LSAT, because if not, it's so much more worth it to invest extra time now so you don't have to waste time unemployed later.

Anyway, I say all of this because of what I went through and to motivate you so you don't lose your motivation later if you can't find the position you want right away. I still firmly believe anyone, no matter what school they come from, can hustle their way to the top and I still intend to try, but it is certainly more difficult to stay motivated the longer you sit without work. Anyway, I completely wish you the best and good luck on this journey!



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