Thinking of attending Howard... Forum

[Jimlaw123]

Hello, to all.

Just want some advice. I've applied to a lot of schools. The first school I've gotten into is "Howard". I'm going to get a lot of it paid for, and not have to worry about it. I came from a top undergrad (UCLA), and to be honest, I'm not doing that again. UCLA was hell on earth for undergrad(racism, school tries to drown you, not even enough numbers for protection, every man for himself etc..) and I know UCLA law is just as insane, and worse (Getting more and more racist, I know lawyers there). Point being.

I had alright numbers on my LSAT (was supposed to be given more time, came through too late (paper work), due to a disability, took the test got a 153 (didn't even answer 5 questions on each LR, or a whole passage on RC.. I digress, not doing it again). I lament this on my applications, some schools are mulling me over, but I'm just thinking, "Screw it".

Also, reasons for my going to law school are as follows. Been in the "work world" for 4 years since college, can't really get ahead (need more education), and I work in the "Entertainment" industry. It's all "Who you know", and I realized I need an old school, that takes care of "Their own".. I'm not going to "Prove myself" to the majority culture, hoping to be the token, I'm good. Did that my entire life.

Also, my partner and I have created an entertainment/movie company (Were getting offers for our scripts from CAA, WME, and producers), so my going to law school is to better protect our assets and our deals. That's it. I want to learn intellectual property law, entertainment law. I did not get into LMU (My application was bad.. my fault), but I may get into Southwestern, Chapman, Pepperdine, etc.. if I cannot get into these, St.Johns, and a slew of other schools out of state have been showing interest, but they aren't really in entertainment or intellectual property.

So there's my speil, tell me how bad it is, how great it is, the pro's etc.. as I stated, my goal isn't to work for some "Big firm" unless in film world, and that's just for connections, were going "rogue" and creating our own company.. well, let me know, guys. Thanks.

[OneHandedEconomist]

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/howard/

[zot1]

This is a tough question. Since you're only planning to use your JD for personal reasons, it makes sense for you to want to go to Howard.

However, here's the problem I have. Despite what people say, you don't learn the same from all law schools. That's a complete myth. I've seen writing samples of students from the top of their class at lower ranked schools and you can tell they're understanding of the law just isn't as sound (speaking only in regards to the ones I've seen, I'm sure there are many others in those schools who are awesome). So this is a problem because would your Howard degree be useful enough for your personal enterprise if you don't learn what you need to?

Aside from this, IP law is very specialized. You won't learn it in school even if you take classes on it. In fact, you don't really become an expert of any subject because of law school. Law school just teaches you fundamentals. It is once you practice that you start learning the real stuff. So this leads me to believe that you would need some practice to gain expertise before you can help yourself business-wise. And if this is the case, I just don't see Howard as giving you a good shot at an IP job, much less one in SoCal.

For those reasons (and the fact that it seems your LSAT taking experience was bad), I would recommend retaking and applying to schools again.

[Jimlaw123]

This is a tough question. Since you're only planning to use your JD for personal reasons, it makes sense for you to want to go to Howard.

However, here's the problem I have. Despite what people say, you don't learn the same from all law schools. That's a complete myth. I've seen writing samples of students from the top of their class at lower ranked schools and you can tell they're understanding of the law just isn't as sound (speaking only in regards to the ones I've seen, I'm sure there are many others in those schools who are awesome). So this is a problem because would your Howard degree be useful enough for your personal enterprise if you don't learn what you need to?

Aside from this, IP law is very specialized. You won't learn it in school even if you take classes on it. In fact, you don't really become an expert of any subject because of law school. Law school just teaches you fundamentals. It is once you practice that you start learning the real stuff. So this leads me to believe that you would need some practice to gain expertise before you can help yourself business-wise. And if this is the case, I just don't see Howard as giving you a good shot at an IP job, much less one in SoCal.

For those reasons (and the fact that it seems your LSAT taking experience was bad), I would recommend retaking and applying to schools again.

I don't know, I know a lot of people in the film world, and the minorities that went to "Howard" are doing a lot better than my friends that went to UCLA. The film world is all about "loyalty and whom you know".. doesn't matter if you went to Harvard, or Yale, even, that'll give you a chance if you're not from here. But even in the "Top Law Schools" rankings in film, Harvard and Stanford are 5 and 9, since it's all about loyalty, where you come from, and whom you know.. that's this industry. Oprah's agent went to Howard Law, and was at WME for a long time time. It's a fickle thing. Also, if Howard is paying for most of it, it makes sense for me. The only other option I feel is Chapman (if I get in), Southwestern (Huge in film law.. powerful), if I get in, or Pepperdine. I applied to "Fordham" but I don't know if I have a chance, so we'll see. As I said, this isn't for "Big law" and I can get a job at CBS or one of those places (in the law room) due to a connection I have in film (big producer), and I've been told to go to "law school" for awhile now, makes it better.

I cannot, and will not take the LSAT again.. 3 years of heck, off and on, and eye surgery, just nope.. I consider myself a "steal" for firms, since I'm smart as heck, and with an eye disability, rubbing, cross eyed, I pulled off a 153, when I should have gotten more time. Just how the ball falls, time to be a man, move forward. If it goes to worse, I can stay my first year, transfer back out west. To a different one, but I need connections, loyalty, and that is it. That's all that matters in law.. all that other shit, is just fluff.

[grades??]

This is a tough question. Since you're only planning to use your JD for personal reasons, it makes sense for you to want to go to Howard.

However, here's the problem I have. Despite what people say, you don't learn the same from all law schools. That's a complete myth. I've seen writing samples of students from the top of their class at lower ranked schools and you can tell they're understanding of the law just isn't as sound (speaking only in regards to the ones I've seen, I'm sure there are many others in those schools who are awesome). So this is a problem because would your Howard degree be useful enough for your personal enterprise if you don't learn what you need to?

Aside from this, IP law is very specialized. You won't learn it in school even if you take classes on it. In fact, you don't really become an expert of any subject because of law school. Law school just teaches you fundamentals. It is once you practice that you start learning the real stuff. So this leads me to believe that you would need some practice to gain expertise before you can help yourself business-wise. And if this is the case, I just don't see Howard as giving you a good shot at an IP job, much less one in SoCal.

For those reasons (and the fact that it seems your LSAT taking experience was bad), I would recommend retaking and applying to schools again.

I don't know, I know a lot of people in the film world, and the minorities that went to "Howard" are doing a lot better than my friends that went to UCLA. The film world is all about "loyalty and whom you know".. doesn't matter if you went to Harvard, or Yale, even, that'll give you a chance if you're not from here. But even in the "Top Law Schools" rankings in film, Harvard and Stanford are 5 and 9, since it's all about loyalty, where you come from, and whom you know.. that's this industry. Oprah's agent went to Howard Law, and was at WME for a long time time. It's a fickle thing. Also, if Howard is paying for most of it, it makes sense for me. The only other option I feel is Chapman (if I get in), Southwestern (Huge in film law.. powerful), if I get in, or Pepperdine. I applied to "Fordham" but I don't know if I have a chance, so we'll see. As I said, this isn't for "Big law" and I can get a job at CBS or one of those places (in the law room) due to a connection I have in film (big producer), and I've been told to go to "law school" for awhile now, makes it better.

I cannot, and will not take the LSAT again.. 3 years of heck, off and on, and eye surgery, just nope.. I consider myself a "steal" for firms, since I'm smart as heck, and with an eye disability, rubbing, cross eyed, I pulled off a 153, when I should have gotten more time. Just how the ball falls, time to be a man, move forward. If it goes to worse, I can stay my first year, transfer back out west. To a different one, but I need connections, loyalty, and that is it. That's all that matters in law.. all that other shit, is just fluff.

I call troll

[OneHandedEconomist]

This is a tough question. Since you're only planning to use your JD for personal reasons, it makes sense for you to want to go to Howard.

However, here's the problem I have. Despite what people say, you don't learn the same from all law schools. That's a complete myth. I've seen writing samples of students from the top of their class at lower ranked schools and you can tell they're understanding of the law just isn't as sound (speaking only in regards to the ones I've seen, I'm sure there are many others in those schools who are awesome). So this is a problem because would your Howard degree be useful enough for your personal enterprise if you don't learn what you need to?

Aside from this, IP law is very specialized. You won't learn it in school even if you take classes on it. In fact, you don't really become an expert of any subject because of law school. Law school just teaches you fundamentals. It is once you practice that you start learning the real stuff. So this leads me to believe that you would need some practice to gain expertise before you can help yourself business-wise. And if this is the case, I just don't see Howard as giving you a good shot at an IP job, much less one in SoCal.

For those reasons (and the fact that it seems your LSAT taking experience was bad), I would recommend retaking and applying to schools again.

I don't know, I know a lot of people in the film world, and the minorities that went to "Howard" are doing a lot better than my friends that went to UCLA. The film world is all about "loyalty and whom you know".. doesn't matter if you went to Harvard, or Yale, even, that'll give you a chance if you're not from here. But even in the "Top Law Schools" rankings in film, Harvard and Stanford are 5 and 9, since it's all about loyalty, where you come from, and whom you know.. that's this industry. Oprah's agent went to Howard Law, and was at WME for a long time time. It's a fickle thing. Also, if Howard is paying for most of it, it makes sense for me. The only other option I feel is Chapman (if I get in), Southwestern (Huge in film law.. powerful), if I get in, or Pepperdine. I applied to "Fordham" but I don't know if I have a chance, so we'll see. As I said, this isn't for "Big law" and I can get a job at CBS or one of those places (in the law room) due to a connection I have in film (big producer), and I've been told to go to "law school" for awhile now, makes it better.

I cannot, and will not take the LSAT again.. 3 years of heck, off and on, and eye surgery, just nope.. I consider myself a "steal" for firms, since I'm smart as heck, and with an eye disability, rubbing, cross eyed, I pulled off a 153, when I should have gotten more time. Just how the ball falls, time to be a man, move forward. If it goes to worse, I can stay my first year, transfer back out west. To a different one, but I need connections, loyalty, and that is it. That's all that matters in law.. all that other shit, is just fluff.

If you've made your decision, why are you posting the question?

[zot1]

Oh man, you completely missed the point I was trying to make. You were saying you wanted to go to law school to use your degree help you and your partner with the company NOT to get a traditional legal job in the film industry. These are two separate things. If you are gonna be your company's lawyer, wouldn't you like to be competent?

I'm not advocating for you to go to UCLA so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.

[Jimlaw123]

Oh man, you completely missed the point I was trying to make. You were saying you wanted to go to law school to use your degree help you and your partner with the company NOT to get a traditional legal job in the film industry. These are two separate things. If you are gonna be your company's lawyer, wouldn't you like to be competent?

I'm not advocating for you to go to UCLA so I'm not sure why you're bringing that up.

Sorry about, I just know a lot about UCLA... all the bullshit the few black people that go there, go thru.

I haven't made my choice at all, weighing the options, just wanted advice, about legal jobs, etc.. since if we can't sell our product, I may go another path, which is " Health Law", but it depends.. But I don't plan to work for anyone for long. Were doing our own thing.

[dabigchina]

I personally don't think your plan makes sense. You don't learn enough practical law in law school for what you want to do. I would hire a good lawyer.

[Jimlaw123]

This is a tough question. Since you're only planning to use your JD for personal reasons, it makes sense for you to want to go to Howard.

However, here's the problem I have. Despite what people say, you don't learn the same from all law schools. That's a complete myth. I've seen writing samples of students from the top of their class at lower ranked schools and you can tell they're understanding of the law just isn't as sound (speaking only in regards to the ones I've seen, I'm sure there are many others in those schools who are awesome). So this is a problem because would your Howard degree be useful enough for your personal enterprise if you don't learn what you need to?

Aside from this, IP law is very specialized. You won't learn it in school even if you take classes on it. In fact, you don't really become an expert of any subject because of law school. Law school just teaches you fundamentals. It is once you practice that you start learning the real stuff. So this leads me to believe that you would need some practice to gain expertise before you can help yourself business-wise. And if this is the case, I just don't see Howard as giving you a good shot at an IP job, much less one in SoCal.

For those reasons (and the fact that it seems your LSAT taking experience was bad), I would recommend retaking and applying to schools again.

I don't know, I know a lot of people in the film world, and the minorities that went to "Howard" are doing a lot better than my friends that went to UCLA. The film world is all about "loyalty and whom you know".. doesn't matter if you went to Harvard, or Yale, even, that'll give you a chance if you're not from here. But even in the "Top Law Schools" rankings in film, Harvard and Stanford are 5 and 9, since it's all about loyalty, where you come from, and whom you know.. that's this industry. Oprah's agent went to Howard Law, and was at WME for a long time time. It's a fickle thing. Also, if Howard is paying for most of it, it makes sense for me. The only other option I feel is Chapman (if I get in), Southwestern (Huge in film law.. powerful), if I get in, or Pepperdine. I applied to "Fordham" but I don't know if I have a chance, so we'll see. As I said, this isn't for "Big law" and I can get a job at CBS or one of those places (in the law room) due to a connection I have in film (big producer), and I've been told to go to "law school" for awhile now, makes it better.

I cannot, and will not take the LSAT again.. 3 years of heck, off and on, and eye surgery, just nope.. I consider myself a "steal" for firms, since I'm smart as heck, and with an eye disability, rubbing, cross eyed, I pulled off a 153, when I should have gotten more time. Just how the ball falls, time to be a man, move forward. If it goes to worse, I can stay my first year, transfer back out west. To a different one, but I need connections, loyalty, and that is it. That's all that matters in law.. all that other shit, is just fluff.

I call troll

How am I a troll? Do you know anything about the film industry? Or are you just talking out of your own behind?

[zot1]

It seems you have no real clue as to what you want to do with your degree. For people like you, the real options are (1) to not go to law school yet and figure out goals first and then determine if law school is best way to achieve them or (2) to go to the best law school that will give you a variety of employment options for the least amount of money. Howard just isn't it, connections and all. The school employs less than half of its class in legal jobs. The school also struggles with bar rates, a struggle I presume is a lot worse for those taking the CA bar. If you want to gamble your future by going with such terrible option, that's most definitely your predicament. Good luck!

[Jimlaw123]

It seems you have no real clue as to what you want to do with your degree. For people like you, the real options are (1) to not go to law school yet and figure out goals first and then determine if law school is best way to achieve them or (2) to go to the best law school that will give you a variety of employment options for the least amount of money. Howard just isn't it, connections and all. The school employs less than half of its class in legal jobs. The school also struggles with bar rates, a struggle I presume is a lot worst for those taking the CA bar. If you want to gamble your future by going with such terrible option, that's most definitely your predicament. Good luck!

Fair enough. Thanks. We'll see. I haven't decided on anything. But my goal is " entertainment law", that's mainly it. I know what I want to do.. Just being an " Entreprenuer" is hard as hell, and there isn't a " right way in film"... just protection of assests, and understanding contracts.. All there is. I don't care where I go, just want the knowledge and backing.. Hopefully I'll get into Chapman.

[Hennessy]

look for statistics on how many Chapman graduates get entertainment law jobs

also retake the LSAT

also lmao @ Harvard and Yale, Top Law School Film Rankings® placement

[luckyirish13]

Hello, to all.

Just want some advice. I've applied to a lot of schools. The first school I've gotten into is "Howard". I'm going to get a lot of it paid for, and not have to worry about it. I came from a top undergrad (UCLA), and to be honest, I'm not doing that again. UCLA was hell on earth for undergrad(racism, school tries to drown you, not even enough numbers for protection, every man for himself etc..) and I know UCLA law is just as insane, and worse (Getting more and more racist, I know lawyers there). Point being.

I had alright numbers on my LSAT (was supposed to be given more time, came through too late (paper work), due to a disability, took the test got a 153 (didn't even answer 5 questions on each LR, or a whole passage on RC.. I digress, not doing it again). I lament this on my applications, some schools are mulling me over, but I'm just thinking, "Screw it".

Also, reasons for my going to law school are as follows. Been in the "work world" for 4 years since college, can't really get ahead (need more education), and I work in the "Entertainment" industry. It's all "Who you know", and I realized I need an old school, that takes care of "Their own".. I'm not going to "Prove myself" to the majority culture, hoping to be the token, I'm good. Did that my entire life.

Also, my partner and I have created an entertainment/movie company (Were getting offers for our scripts from CAA, WME, and producers), so my going to law school is to better protect our assets and our deals. That's it. I want to learn intellectual property law, entertainment law. I did not get into LMU (My application was bad.. my fault), but I may get into Southwestern, Chapman, Pepperdine, etc.. if I cannot get into these, St.Johns, and a slew of other schools out of state have been showing interest, but they aren't really in entertainment or intellectual property.

So there's my speil, tell me how bad it is, how great it is, the pro's etc.. as I stated, my goal isn't to work for some "Big firm" unless in film world, and that's just for connections, were going "rogue" and creating our own company.. well, let me know, guys. Thanks.

I actually sympathize with your situation. I also went to a film school and worked in digital video editing for a couple years. You're absolutely right that the industry is all about who you know, and you need those contacts who can set you up in order to succeed. It's a dog-eat-dog world and there's no real money for the people at the bottom. That's why I left actually. I'm also a fellow 0L who'll be applying to schools this upcoming year, so we have a lot of similar experiences. That being said, there's quite a few things I notice about your post.

1. Howard is a bad idea. Nobody in the film industry is going to associate a 4th tier Washington DC school with anything important. The common sentiment is that you go to a law school in the area you want to work in. You don't go to Washington DC in order to work in film. You especially don't go to a bad Washington DC law school in order to work in film. Even in the law world, Howard only places 49% of graduates in legal jobs. https://www.lstreports.com/schools/howard/ You're going to spend a lot of time and money to get a law degree that doesn't even give you a 50% chance of getting a legal job. Even worse, the school has no name recognition to help you in film work. AND it's not even in your target market. They can't help "take care of their own" if they're in a market that doesn't have any link to the film world. This is a really bad option for you and I really hope for your sake you don't do it.

Edit: You mention you have a scholarship for most of Howard's cost. That still doesn't alleviate for the COA, the remaining tuition cost, or the 3 years of lost income you would have had if you hadn't left your current job in the meantime. It's still a really bad investment considering it doesn't advance your career goals and will still cost a lot of money/time.

2. I don't think your reason for wanting to work in law makes sense. I get that it's a dream, but on a logical, practical level, your reasoning for getting this degree boils down to you wanting to have the ability to defend your companies intellectual property. This is understandable and justifiable, but you personally having a J.D is not the only way to defend your intellectual property. You could easily hire an outside attorney to do that for you. There's no reason for you to have to defend these deals/scripts yourself. I mean heck, you graduated from UCLA. I guarantee you there are professors or classmates of yours who can point you to good IP lawyers who can help protect your scripts. There is no reason for you to have to spend $200,000+ in order to get a degree that will only marginally help your stated career, especially when you have the option of getting someone else to represent you for a fraction of the cost.

3. Not trying to be mean, but your excuses about why you got a low score on the LSAT don't hold water. I gather from your comments that you're legally blind, which makes the reading comprehension section extremely difficult. That would make sense, except that LSAC specifically makes accommodations for people with your disability. http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/accommodate ... ng/readers
http://www.lsac.org/jd/lsat/accommodated-testingThere are blind lawyers, who had to pass through Law School Admissions in order to get where they are, so it's definitely doable. If you're testing low, that either means you aren't using the LSAC admissions process correctly, or maybe (and I think this is the real answer here) law isn't for you. I checked through some of your old comments to see if you were a troll like previous commenters seemed to think. I don't think you are. You've been trying to up your LSAT score for years, but it just hasn't worked out. Maybe that means it's not for you?

4.Moreover, if you're going into law, this is not going to get easier for you. If you couldn't make it work on the LSAT, why do you think that poring over endless documents about patent and intellectual property law is going to be doable for you? One of the things I've started to notice about the world is that it does tell us things. There are paths we are meant to follow, and other paths we aren't meant to go down. Sometimes what we want doesn't really correspond with what is possible. You've taken the LSAT 4? times now, and never gotten a particularly good score. I also saw that you missed the deadline for registering for the LSAT one of these times, and you had written about how you thought maybe law wasn't for you. Now you haven't gotten into the schools you wanted to get into, and taking on crippling debt for very little long term benefit is not a good option. I think the universe is telling you something. I can't live your life for you, but based on what I see, this really doesn't seem like a fit for you, especially since you don't even need the law degree. You have options for protecting your IP without spending all this money for a degree that won't even boost your salary.

5. Only if you still are completely committed to going to law school does this point apply, otherwise ignore this part.
Based on your posts, I wouldn't recommend law school to you since it doesn't seem necessary or helpful, but if you are absolutely steadfast on going to law school, there was a name on your list that did make a bit of sense. Chapman University is actually a good school for getting into media. They are ranked as a top 10 film school so at least on that end they would help you pursue your career. http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/lists/ ... ilm-920361With a UCLA B.A/B.S and a Chapman J.D, you would fit the profile of an entertainment lawyer working in Southern California. Also, since Chapman is located in Orange County, you can come out of school with contacts and potential work. That being said, Chapman is a tier 3 school for a reason. It doesn't get you a job outside of Southern California, and it probably can't get you a job with any form of law other than media. It's also not worth 200,000+, especially considering you don't technically even need a law degree to keep doing the job you're currently doing. If you get a significant scholarship to Chapman, this might be a good option for you. Otherwise, you'll be taking on crippling debt for little or no actual advantage. If things work out and you get into Chapman with a good scholarship, this would actually work with your stated goals, but otherwise, none of the options you mentioned seemed like they were going to help you.