My theoryon URM admissions Forum

[MyNameIsntJames]

I think the first part of your theory about URM cycles being unpredictable is already widely accepted. However, I do think that for certain URMs, with high GPAs and LSAT scores, it is sort of easier to predict compared to their non-URM counterparts. IDK, just how it seems to me.

The rest of it sort of seems a bit disparate and jumbled up. I get what you're trying to say though and agree with the greater message.

ETA: I read the entire thing instead of just skimming the first parts. Haha. Are you using drugs, James?

I just wrote it all spur of the moment from my phone without even attempting to proof read. I think I'm one of the legitimate cases of ADD in this world, so my thoughts just jump from topic to topic all the time. Like I gotta really sit down & outline something before I write or otherwise it'll read like this lmaooo.


My goal though is to just keep people motivated & hungry. I hate when I read posts on this site of someone saying "can I get into this school?" And people say "no" and they just say screw it then. Like cough up the money for the apps if you can't get fee waivers! Lol.

I hear ya... I use my phone to go on here and probably mistype quite a bit. Not to mention all the grammatical problems. So no worries...

I really have to ask though, where on this site do these events occur?

It seems like when people don't get the answers they want in the "What are my chances?" thread, they all consist of generally the same narrative. Below I've written an example of the exchanges I see sometimes.

"Hey guys, I'm a lurker. I'm not retaking so don't tell me to do that. No negative comments please.
I'm aiming for HYS. I'm a URM with a 2.3 gpa and I'm currently PTing at a 190 on the LSAT (180+10pt URM boost) What are my chances for HYS?"

Then people reply:

Come back when you have a real LSAT score.

It is going to be near impossible to get into H with a 2.3, their GPA floor is somewhere around a 3.6.... If you get a 190 you will still have a great cycle good luck!


I think that response often gets interpreted as " You can never live your dreams, just give up, you're never going to make it!"

You aren't all the way wrong in this regard. I've seen a decent amount of people get offended over legitimate and accurate advice. But there are some folks that have some sort of a shot that let their dreams get shot down on here lol and I don't get it. I just feel if someone believes in their heart they can get somewhere then fuck it... Go hard and apply. They can argue with us but not that admissions' decision and that will be it. At the end of the day even if they don't get into their dream school, the extra effort they put in as an attempt will serve them well in some other way (i.e. lower ranked schools that will be more likely to accept/raise schollies because of their diligent efforts), so its a win/win.

Yeah, I agree with your post. We shouldn't ever let negative people on a forum get us down or keep us from trying. That said, we have to be realistic, and sometimes what I enjoy most about TLS is the blunt honesty one receives. I guess it is advantageous to see beyond the purely negative shit, evaluate the truthful stuff you might not want to hear, and forge ahead to your dreams.

I'm a URM with a 3.9, average softs, and no LSAT yet. I am hoping that with a 170 I can get Harvard. Everyone on here has more or less been truthful and supportive of that goal. Of course online you're bound to encounter trolls and those that get pleasure from upsetting a complete stranger, but you can't worry about that shit. So I agree with you there, James.

How is your LSAT prep coming anyways? I remember seeing you post on here a bunch back in April and then you sort of disappeared? How have you been ?

Damn your GPA is nice. Study your ass off bro, 170s and the world is your oyster lol.

And I had to disappear to study honestly. I was starting to get addicted to these forums. Every now & then I slip back in it though lol. Studying's been ehhh. Its a very slow process but its getting there. Wish I was PT'ing a little higher right now (still low 170s, which I think might translate to a 168), but who knows what two more solid months will do for me.

How's your studying going bro?

Damn, I am jealous of your LSAT progress... I am working hard, but it has been a slow process for me. I wasted a lot of time in the beginning of my prep looking for "silver bullet" or secrets to "gaming" the test. So right now I have found what is working for me (7Sage + The LSAT Trainer + Manhattan Prep) and as a result switched my test date to December. I would have loved to keep September, but I wasted a month and realized this test is too important for me. Honestly, if I don't do as well as I hope in December, I have no problem with sitting out a cycle to ensure I get my ass into the schools I want. H Y or Cornell, Colombia, NYU. I'm not really interested in any other school..

So right now it is going alright. I am working hard going through the course curriculum and really making sure I study the fundamentals of the test. I realized that I am really good at learning, and honestly enjoy it. So I am playing on my strengths and hoping it translates to success. I am realizing that a lot of the LSAT advice out there is flawed and that I don't think it makes total sense to take 30 practice tests and gain your improvement there. I think it makes more sense to go through the prep materials over and over and drill your weaknesses. I think it is easier to isolate your weaknesses by doing this and correct them more effectively. I also think timed sections are important as well.

I have a good feeling--So I'm hoping by December I will be able to score in the 170s. Even so, I think with my stats I should be able to get H with a mid-to-high 160s. I don't want to leave it up to chance, so I am working my ass off for that 170!

I'm glad you realized you were having a little addiction to the forum and took time to study. That's great man. I hope we end up at H together and achieve all of our dreams!

What prep materials have you been using? Anything out of the ordinary?

Trust me when I say my progress is far from exceptional lol. I graduated May 2015, and started initially studying for this exam in the summer before my senior year. So its been a lonnggggg time. But that's not to say that it takes that long. I took months off at a time and had some periods where I'd only do a chapter a week or something light.

Switching to December def isn't a bad idea. You might not be able to maximize admissions' results this cycle to their fullest if you apply when you get scores in January but still things could turn well. If time isn't of the essence to start school I'd consider waiting it out to the next cycle so you can submit apps the day things open and be one of the first on board.

LSAT is definitely an annoying exam though, ridiculously nuanced. Def can see you hitting 170+ by December. Upper 160's will get amazing results but I think you should shoot for 170+ anyway and have the T-14 on bended knee asking for you lol. With your GPA, you deserve HYS and 170's could all but seal that. Whenever you get tired of studying or this exam frustrates you bro you should just think to yourself "How nice is it gonna feel when Harvard /Yale/Stanford sends in those acceptance letters. Do I want to go to Harvard in Cambridge or go over to sunny ass Palo Alto California? Might even kick it in NYC for a little bit on a full ride."


For prep materials I've been religiously using PowerScore. I've looked at Kaplan(trash), 7Sage, PR (trash), and Manhattan but by far the one that I feel has served me best has been PS. Maybe its a personal thing, but I feel like they just break shit down in a way that makes me say "Oh, I actually understand this now." And you're COMPLETELY right about getting fundamentals down. For me, that improved my score way more than just taking endless practice tests. Especially on LR. Like Logic Games, you can probably brute force your way to a perfect score in that section if you just do them again and again and work a personal system but with LR it really helps to learn the fundamentals a lot.

The craziest part about the LSAT is I think the more naturally intelligent someone is, the harder it is for them to do really well. I say that because naturally gifted people are gonna want to approach the LSAT like everything else they've done in school and they're sure its going to work because they've always aced classes like that. But this exam kind of requires you to kind of learn from the ground up. Like the very first time I took it, I just took the questions at face value, didn't re-read anything, isolate conclusions or nothing. Barely made it through 2 logic games, did ok on RC and got like a 146 diagnostic no lie lol. I thought I was fucked, but from there I got to 160s PT'ing in a couple months by just going through the prep books and figuring out what this test is about.

Sorry its late I'm hitting this jack and rambling lol. But bro, take as much time as you need for this exam because you will SURELY reap the rewards. What's a year to take off if it means HYS? And besides, that's just gonna translate as a year of WE or time you can do community service or whatever to make you even that much better of a candidate.

[Barack O'Drama]

Thanks man! I appreciate the motivation. You are so right and I have come to see that taking another year wouldn't be the worst thing. I don't think Barack Obama started at Harvard until he was 27. So being older isn't the end of the world.

I actually got a lot out of the Bibles. For logical reasoning and logic games it was definitely helpful.

I think there are different kinds of intelligence and some otherwise really intelligent people may have a bit of trouble on the exam. I never had any trouble in undergrad, did great in high school and on the SAT, but this test is not my forte. I don't really have any doubt that I will be able to master it. I really am jealous of people who don't work and can just focus on the test. I work about 40 hours a week and it is tiring to come home and study for 4 hours. But, hey, it will be worth it.

I am abstaining from taking any practice tests until I have my LR down to -4; LG down to 0; and RC down to -5 or better. That will put me in the mid-to-high 160s. Then I am going to use all my practice tests to really master timing, stress, and general improvement. I never got the common LSAT orthodoxy of practice testing to make improvements. That is what drills should be used for and those that do so tend to be the most successful. I've only taken one practice test for my diagnostic. I'm using 1-38 for drills and practice tests. I think you can get a lot out of re-doing problems. I must have done the problems from certain tests I have taken 3x. You really start to see the patterns and truly understand exactly what makes the answers right. I think that is why I love The LSAT Trainer and Mike Kim's approach.

I am really set on hitting the 170s and I never doubt myself. It is just going to take time, and that is fine by me. Harvard will be even sweeter knowing how hard I had to work to get there!

Have a goodnight man and good luck. Check back in every now and again and let us know how you're doing!

[candyroll232]

Finally found some normal people here. Numbers are super important but not the only important thing.

[beantheshadow]

Thanks man! I appreciate the motivation. You are so right and I have come to see that taking another year wouldn't be the worst thing. I don't think Barack Obama started at Harvard until he was 27. So being older isn't the end of the world.

I actually got a lot out of the Bibles. For logical reasoning and logic games it was definitely helpful.

I think there are different kinds of intelligence and some otherwise really intelligent people may have a bit of trouble on the exam. I never had any trouble in undergrad, did great in high school and on the SAT, but this test is not my forte. I don't really have any doubt that I will be able to master it. I really am jealous of people who don't work and can just focus on the test. I work about 40 hours a week and it is tiring to come home and study for 4 hours. But, hey, it will be worth it.

I am abstaining from taking any practice tests until I have my LR down to -4; LG down to 0; and RC down to -5 or better. That will put me in the mid-to-high 160s. Then I am going to use all my practice tests to really master timing, stress, and general improvement. I never got the common LSAT orthodoxy of practice testing to make improvements. That is what drills should be used for and those that do so tend to be the most successful. I've only taken one practice test for my diagnostic. I'm using 1-38 for drills and practice tests. I think you can get a lot out of re-doing problems. I must have done the problems from certain tests I have taken 3x. You really start to see the patterns and truly understand exactly what makes the answers right. I think that is why I love The LSAT Trainer and Mike Kim's approach.

I am really set on hitting the 170s and I never doubt myself. It is just going to take time, and that is fine by me. Harvard will be even sweeter knowing how hard I had to work to get there!

Have a goodnight man and good luck. Check back in every now and again and let us know how you're doing!

Curious to know how your studyings going?

[Barack O'Drama]

Thanks man! I appreciate the motivation. You are so right and I have come to see that taking another year wouldn't be the worst thing. I don't think Barack Obama started at Harvard until he was 27. So being older isn't the end of the world.

I actually got a lot out of the Bibles. For logical reasoning and logic games it was definitely helpful.

I think there are different kinds of intelligence and some otherwise really intelligent people may have a bit of trouble on the exam. I never had any trouble in undergrad, did great in high school and on the SAT, but this test is not my forte. I don't really have any doubt that I will be able to master it. I really am jealous of people who don't work and can just focus on the test. I work about 40 hours a week and it is tiring to come home and study for 4 hours. But, hey, it will be worth it.

I am abstaining from taking any practice tests until I have my LR down to -4; LG down to 0; and RC down to -5 or better. That will put me in the mid-to-high 160s. Then I am going to use all my practice tests to really master timing, stress, and general improvement. I never got the common LSAT orthodoxy of practice testing to make improvements. That is what drills should be used for and those that do so tend to be the most successful. I've only taken one practice test for my diagnostic. I'm using 1-38 for drills and practice tests. I think you can get a lot out of re-doing problems. I must have done the problems from certain tests I have taken 3x. You really start to see the patterns and truly understand exactly what makes the answers right. I think that is why I love The LSAT Trainer and Mike Kim's approach.

I am really set on hitting the 170s and I never doubt myself. It is just going to take time, and that is fine by me. Harvard will be even sweeter knowing how hard I had to work to get there!

Have a goodnight man and good luck. Check back in every now and again and let us know how you're doing!

Curious to know how your studyings going?

It's going good dude!

I am working my way through the 7Sage curriculum and supplementing it with Manhattan LSAT / The LSAT Trainer. I've improved quite a bit since I wrote that last post. Hoping to break into the 170s before Christmas, lol.

How's your studying going?

[PrezRand]

Studies have been delayed lately. However, the way my courses are set up, I can finish a significant amount of the material until November. I researched the T14 schools more. After careful consideration, I would honestly rather go to UT or Vandy over most of the T14. I would like to know what makes many of these schools so appealing to students besides potential job prospects.

[beantheshadow]

Thanks man! I appreciate the motivation. You are so right and I have come to see that taking another year wouldn't be the worst thing. I don't think Barack Obama started at Harvard until he was 27. So being older isn't the end of the world.

I actually got a lot out of the Bibles. For logical reasoning and logic games it was definitely helpful.

I think there are different kinds of intelligence and some otherwise really intelligent people may have a bit of trouble on the exam. I never had any trouble in undergrad, did great in high school and on the SAT, but this test is not my forte. I don't really have any doubt that I will be able to master it. I really am jealous of people who don't work and can just focus on the test. I work about 40 hours a week and it is tiring to come home and study for 4 hours. But, hey, it will be worth it.

I am abstaining from taking any practice tests until I have my LR down to -4; LG down to 0; and RC down to -5 or better. That will put me in the mid-to-high 160s. Then I am going to use all my practice tests to really master timing, stress, and general improvement. I never got the common LSAT orthodoxy of practice testing to make improvements. That is what drills should be used for and those that do so tend to be the most successful. I've only taken one practice test for my diagnostic. I'm using 1-38 for drills and practice tests. I think you can get a lot out of re-doing problems. I must have done the problems from certain tests I have taken 3x. You really start to see the patterns and truly understand exactly what makes the answers right. I think that is why I love The LSAT Trainer and Mike Kim's approach.

I am really set on hitting the 170s and I never doubt myself. It is just going to take time, and that is fine by me. Harvard will be even sweeter knowing how hard I had to work to get there!

Have a goodnight man and good luck. Check back in every now and again and let us know how you're doing!

Curious to know how your studyings going?

It's going good dude!

I am working my way through the 7Sage curriculum and supplementing it with Manhattan LSAT / The LSAT Trainer. I've improved quite a bit since I wrote that last post. Hoping to break into the 170s before Christmas, lol.

How's your studying going?

Nice. I'm sure you can get there! I swear my outlook changed after getting the LSAT Trainer. It really helped me score consistently above 165. I never used Manhattan books but their forums were great for breaking down the questions. Good luck

I'm actually done with the LSAT, I sent most of my applications in already. Only app I'm working on is for Yale (250 word essay). So I kind of spend my spare time checking my status trackers and reading posts on here! Lol

[Barack O'Drama]

Thanks man! I appreciate the motivation. You are so right and I have come to see that taking another year wouldn't be the worst thing. I don't think Barack Obama started at Harvard until he was 27. So being older isn't the end of the world.

I actually got a lot out of the Bibles. For logical reasoning and logic games it was definitely helpful.

I think there are different kinds of intelligence and some otherwise really intelligent people may have a bit of trouble on the exam. I never had any trouble in undergrad, did great in high school and on the SAT, but this test is not my forte. I don't really have any doubt that I will be able to master it. I really am jealous of people who don't work and can just focus on the test. I work about 40 hours a week and it is tiring to come home and study for 4 hours. But, hey, it will be worth it.

I am abstaining from taking any practice tests until I have my LR down to -4; LG down to 0; and RC down to -5 or better. That will put me in the mid-to-high 160s. Then I am going to use all my practice tests to really master timing, stress, and general improvement. I never got the common LSAT orthodoxy of practice testing to make improvements. That is what drills should be used for and those that do so tend to be the most successful. I've only taken one practice test for my diagnostic. I'm using 1-38 for drills and practice tests. I think you can get a lot out of re-doing problems. I must have done the problems from certain tests I have taken 3x. You really start to see the patterns and truly understand exactly what makes the answers right. I think that is why I love The LSAT Trainer and Mike Kim's approach.

I am really set on hitting the 170s and I never doubt myself. It is just going to take time, and that is fine by me. Harvard will be even sweeter knowing how hard I had to work to get there!

Have a goodnight man and good luck. Check back in every now and again and let us know how you're doing!

Curious to know how your studyings going?

It's going good dude!

I am working my way through the 7Sage curriculum and supplementing it with Manhattan LSAT / The LSAT Trainer. I've improved quite a bit since I wrote that last post. Hoping to break into the 170s before Christmas, lol.

How's your studying going?

Nice. I'm sure you can get there! I swear my outlook changed after getting the LSAT Trainer. It really helped me score consistently above 165. I never used Manhattan books but their forums were great for breaking down the questions. Good luck

I'm actually done with the LSAT, I sent most of my applications in already. Only app I'm working on is for Yale (250 word essay). So I kind of spend my spare time checking my status trackers and reading posts on here! Lol

That's awesome dude! Congrats! I hope to see you at Y

What else did you use for the LSAT besides The LSAT Trainer? I'm kind of plateaued in the low-mid 160s...

[beantheshadow]

Thanks man! I appreciate the motivation. You are so right and I have come to see that taking another year wouldn't be the worst thing. I don't think Barack Obama started at Harvard until he was 27. So being older isn't the end of the world.

I actually got a lot out of the Bibles. For logical reasoning and logic games it was definitely helpful.

I think there are different kinds of intelligence and some otherwise really intelligent people may have a bit of trouble on the exam. I never had any trouble in undergrad, did great in high school and on the SAT, but this test is not my forte. I don't really have any doubt that I will be able to master it. I really am jealous of people who don't work and can just focus on the test. I work about 40 hours a week and it is tiring to come home and study for 4 hours. But, hey, it will be worth it.

I am abstaining from taking any practice tests until I have my LR down to -4; LG down to 0; and RC down to -5 or better. That will put me in the mid-to-high 160s. Then I am going to use all my practice tests to really master timing, stress, and general improvement. I never got the common LSAT orthodoxy of practice testing to make improvements. That is what drills should be used for and those that do so tend to be the most successful. I've only taken one practice test for my diagnostic. I'm using 1-38 for drills and practice tests. I think you can get a lot out of re-doing problems. I must have done the problems from certain tests I have taken 3x. You really start to see the patterns and truly understand exactly what makes the answers right. I think that is why I love The LSAT Trainer and Mike Kim's approach.

I am really set on hitting the 170s and I never doubt myself. It is just going to take time, and that is fine by me. Harvard will be even sweeter knowing how hard I had to work to get there!

Have a goodnight man and good luck. Check back in every now and again and let us know how you're doing!

Curious to know how your studyings going?

It's going good dude!

I am working my way through the 7Sage curriculum and supplementing it with Manhattan LSAT / The LSAT Trainer. I've improved quite a bit since I wrote that last post. Hoping to break into the 170s before Christmas, lol.

How's your studying going?

Nice. I'm sure you can get there! I swear my outlook changed after getting the LSAT Trainer. It really helped me score consistently above 165. I never used Manhattan books but their forums were great for breaking down the questions. Good luck

I'm actually done with the LSAT, I sent most of my applications in already. Only app I'm working on is for Yale (250 word essay). So I kind of spend my spare time checking my status trackers and reading posts on here! Lol

That's awesome dude! Congrats! I hope to see you at Y

What else did you use for the LSAT besides The LSAT Trainer? I'm kind of plateaued in the low-mid 160s...

It happens, just keep chugging forward. Take a break for a couple days every month to clear your mind.

I drilled using 1-38 for LR and LG, and the Powerscore Bibles for the first two months of my study. I would just look at JY's free explanations after doing a LG (obviously after reviewing and figuring out the answer for myself). But he really helps in seeing the patterns/short-cuts. I didn't start using the LSAT Trainer until last October (I took the test December 15'). I used the Manhattan forums as my last resort when I couldn't figure out why and answer was correct.

The thing that pushed me over that 165 was actually reviewing PTs with others. I'm not sure if they still do it but on 7sage they had free Skype meet-ups where the went over PTS together. Sometimes only three people showed up, other times it was 6 or 7 but we all took turns, so having to explain our reasoning was key in improving.

[Barack O'Drama]

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