AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

(BLS, URM status, non-traditional, GLBT)
MyNameIsntJames
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:18 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 7:51 pm

jnwa wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
jnwa wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:Another anecdotal story. So because you didn't get in, every single AA with a 3.2 and 173+ wouldn't have gotten in? That's dumb logic. There have been AA with a 3.6 and 170+ dinged from Harvard and there are 4.0 Non-URM that get dinged every year.

You just got dinged, period. There's no guarantee range for HYS, it's just not an auto-no. Conditional situation.


Feel free to continue to shoot down claims that are counter to yours as anecdotes while not supporting any of the claims you make. Where did you discover that the "established" floor for H is a 3.2.



I said a "soft" floor of 3.2 & this is an educated guess that was made in the "URM Admissions" sticky in the URM section, so I didn't just pull it out of my ass.

By soft floor, that means maybe, maybe not. Pretty much they might bend there for some, maybe not for others. Once again this is HLS.. No one really knows what's going through their admissions' committee's heads. Hard floor implies that there's a 0% chance in any universe someone gets in at that GPA point & below, and data has proven that that mark is not 3.2 for Harvard. They HAVE admitted 3.2 applicants before & there's not enough URM splitters w sub 3.2 GPA & 175+ LSATs for us to even know if that's the absolute floor or not.

I hope that cleared up some of the discrepancy.

Edit: You also are assuming your GPA screwed you. Who's to say a 175+ wouldn't have gotten you in?


I know you have a shit GPA as well and have a vested interest in believing that it wont disqualify you from Harvard, in which case more power to you. But the statistical and anecdotal evidence(check lawschoolnumbers) point to the fact that HYS are much more accepting of high GPAs even when they come with sub sub sub 25th LSATs than the other way around. Theres still lots of great outcomes available for OP.

Harvard's median is 173. The average URM they accept is significantly below that. The 173 wasnt what disqualified me. Im not bitter about it, i just want to give other people accurate advice because i was in the same situation a year ago but youre here, having never gone through the process, spreading bad info.




When you realize you lost an argument absolutely, try ad hominem. It was probably a blessing you didn't get into Harvard. If an online board makes you lose your cool this quickly, imagine what the stresses and rigors of Harvard would've done.

Nonetheless, I'll entertain you for a bit because I'm in a good mood today:

-I have no 'vested interest' in anything. If I get into Harvard that will be amazing. If not, I'm sure I'll do just fine at other T-14 schools I get into. I want to go into public interest, not work in BigLaw, so I'm perfectly content with any school that accepts me. It seems you feel differently, which is a shame.
-I know what Harvard's median is. We all do. They do accept URMs with lower scores than you. That's not a point of contention. However, those URMs also have higher GPAs than you did when you applied, so their situation isn't comparable to yours. I said that a higher LSAT score may have helped off set your GPA to a higher extent and granted you acceptance and, truthfully, unless Harvard wrote you a letter saying "We wouldn't have let you in even if you scored a 180" or you actually scored a 180, applied and still got rejected, you can't say that your GPA is the sole factor that stopped you from getting in or that there was no possible scenario in which you could've received admittance.


It sounds like you're angry that you didn't get in and you're determined to let everyone else in a similar position know that they can't do it either and that's really sad. You should know their admissions' boards have let URMs in with a 3.2 before (documented) and they have a holistic approach to this process. His PS, LOR, and softs and time of application submittal will all be different than yours and if he scores 175+ instead of 173, then his statistics will be a bit higher as well. I don't see how being rejected from Harvard qualifies you to claim that everyone else in a similar position is guaranteed rejection. This statement shouldn't make you angry.

Your anger clearly stems from something a lot deeper than whatever I said to you. You didn't get into Harvard. Get over it. Don't tell this kid he has 0 shot at getting in though because you don't know that. You don't know what he's gonna score, you don't know what crazy admirable accomplishments he has outside of school and you don't know his story or a single admissions officer at Harvard. Your best answer is a 'unlikely/likely', but no one here is in a position to tell this man no. And hell yeah I'm going to defend that to the grave. Not because I need to 'believe' I'll get into Harvard; I have enough self-confidence. I don't want people aiming any lower than the best because a bunch of bitter ass TLSers on here want to crush this kid's dreams. And honestly bro, as a black dude you should be uplifting this guy and encouraging him to prosper as another brother like you and me instead of shitting on him and me like we're your enemies.

MyNameIsntJames
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:18 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 8:07 pm

rav17 wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.



You're just as wrong as the person you quoted. Really annoying seeing people try to cite AA URM chances as if there's a definitive certainty. There's a number of applicants who have been at Harvard+Princeton below 3.5 and it's been established that if there's any "floor" for URM at Harvard it's a 3.2 and that's a soft one at that.

Just not nearly enough data of AA males with splitter stats like that applying to HLS for anyone to say conclusively what they'll decide. It's all anecdotal at this point.


You can whine and bitch about people trying to cite urm chances, but many people on this forum do it all the time, even for non urm candidates believe it or not (shocker I know!) . There is even a subform dedicated to chances threads and your petulance as well as your indignant sentiments vis-a-vis this phenomenon won't change that. I never said that it was impossible to get into Harvard with a 3.2 gpa. Based on lsn and some other sources, the gpa floor for aa's at Harvard appears to be about a 3.5-3.6. But I never said you absolutely needed to have at least a 3.5-3.6 as demonstrated by the fact that I conceded that are some outliers and that some aa's with sub 3.5 spa's & 170+ lsat scores do get into Harvard. However, you're deluding yourself if you think that happens habitually, or that the number aa's with such stats is even close to the number of aa's that are admitted with gpa's north of 3.5. I mean this is Harvard not Thomas Cooley, get your head out of your ass. The fact is, you're better off with a high gpa and a lower lsat like a 3.8 and a 163, than the reverse, like a 3.3 and a 169. True, Harvard is more forgiving of lower grades than say Stanford and Yale, but they definitely prefer splitters to reverse splitters.

Edit: Just perused through your posts and saw your stats. I surmise that the reason my post elicited such a visceral response from you is because it hurt your feelings, if that's the case that wasn't my intention, LOL.



Wow you're really mad. My response wasn't visceral, you're just wrong. And once more with the 'I read through your posts and saw you asked about Harvard once and now I know why you take this so personally.' I laugh whenever TLSers say that to me. If I was so weak minded that the opinions of random people online had the power to discourage/encourage my path toward Harvard or any other law school, then I don't belong there or anywhere else. I'm gonna study my ass off for the LSAT, do as well as possible and apply everywhere, weigh my options and then go to the best place. Harvard rejects kids with 4.0s and 175+ LSATs every year. If I don't get in, I'll be very at peace. You think my feelings are hurt because of your extremely inaccurate opinion on Harvard's admissions? Lmao. I said you're wrong because you are wrong and this guy has a legitimate chance at getting into Harvard.


It bothers me a million times more on TLS when I see people discourage other posters vs. myself. I don't care what people say about my fate, but I hate seeing people slam other aspiring individuals on these forums based on whimsical guesses and half-assed truths. People take the advice on these forums pretty seriously and I have no problem going to bat with anyone here to let an OP know that if they work their asses off and achieve the scores that they claim they'll get then they have a possibility of getting into a Harvard. Is it likely? No. But is Harvard really 'likely' for anybody? Every year there's a surprising admission somewhere. We can't guarantee that Harvard will absolutely say no to this guy. And more to the point, you saying there's a 3.5-3.6 floor is dead wrong because we've seen people on this forum get into HLS multiple times with a lower GPA than that.


You're angry about the simple truth that there are very few URM that apply to HYS or have extreme splitter stats like what this guy is proposing and we can't say with complete certainty that HLS would say no. There's a lot of URM with his proposed stats that have landed on HLS' waitlist and never bothered to update about whether they got into the class or not because they accepted another offer. Not every URM is reporting their cycles and not everyone's reports are accurate. No year is the same as the year before and nothing is a guarantee. We don't know this kid's LORs, softs, how well he writes, when he's going to submit his application or anything. Given all this, it would just be dumb and intellectually dishonest to tell this guy he has 0 shot at Harvard. This isn't a personal argument, its just a factual one and anyone who objectively understands this law school process would agree with me. Not even sure why this is something that got you so riled up that you went through my posts trying to dig up something to use as a weapon against me like a hurt teenage girl.

rav17
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:09 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby rav17 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:13 pm

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.



You're just as wrong as the person you quoted. Really annoying seeing people try to cite AA URM chances as if there's a definitive certainty. There's a number of applicants who have been at Harvard+Princeton below 3.5 and it's been established that if there's any "floor" for URM at Harvard it's a 3.2 and that's a soft one at that.

Just not nearly enough data of AA males with splitter stats like that applying to HLS for anyone to say conclusively what they'll decide. It's all anecdotal at this point.


You can whine and bitch about people trying to cite urm chances, but many people on this forum do it all the time, even for non urm candidates believe it or not (shocker I know!) . There is even a subform dedicated to chances threads and your petulance as well as your indignant sentiments vis-a-vis this phenomenon won't change that. I never said that it was impossible to get into Harvard with a 3.2 gpa. Based on lsn and some other sources, the gpa floor for aa's at Harvard appears to be about a 3.5-3.6. But I never said you absolutely needed to have at least a 3.5-3.6 as demonstrated by the fact that I conceded that are some outliers and that some aa's with sub 3.5 spa's & 170+ lsat scores do get into Harvard. However, you're deluding yourself if you think that happens habitually, or that the number aa's with such stats is even close to the number of aa's that are admitted with gpa's north of 3.5. I mean this is Harvard not Thomas Cooley, get your head out of your ass. The fact is, you're better off with a high gpa and a lower lsat like a 3.8 and a 163, than the reverse, like a 3.3 and a 169. True, Harvard is more forgiving of lower grades than say Stanford and Yale, but they definitely prefer splitters to reverse splitters.

Edit: Just perused through your posts and saw your stats. I surmise that the reason my post elicited such a visceral response from you is because it hurt your feelings, if that's the case that wasn't my intention, LOL.



Wow you're really mad. My response wasn't visceral, you're just wrong. And once more with the 'I read through your posts and saw you asked about Harvard once and now I know why you take this so personally.' I laugh whenever TLSers say that to me. If I was so weak minded that the opinions of random people online had the power to discourage/encourage my path toward Harvard or any other law school, then I don't belong there or anywhere else. I'm gonna study my ass off for the LSAT, do as well as possible and apply everywhere, weigh my options and then go to the best place. Harvard rejects kids with 4.0s and 175+ LSATs every year. If I don't get in, I'll be very at peace. You think my feelings are hurt because of your extremely inaccurate opinion on Harvard's admissions? Lmao. I said you're wrong because you are wrong and this guy has a legitimate chance at getting into Harvard.


It bothers me a million times more on TLS when I see people discourage other posters vs. myself. I don't care what people say about my fate, but I hate seeing people slam other aspiring individuals on these forums based on whimsical guesses and half-assed truths. People take the advice on these forums pretty seriously and I have no problem going to bat with anyone here to let an OP know that if they work their asses off and achieve the scores that they claim they'll get then they have a possibility of getting into a Harvard. Is it likely? No. But is Harvard really 'likely' for anybody? Every year there's a surprising admission somewhere. We can't guarantee that Harvard will absolutely say no to this guy. And more to the point, you saying there's a 3.5-3.6 floor is dead wrong because we've seen people on this forum get into HLS multiple times with a lower GPA than that.


You're angry about the simple truth that there are very few URM that apply to HYS or have extreme splitter stats like what this guy is proposing and we can't say with complete certainty that HLS would say no. There's a lot of URM with his proposed stats that have landed on HLS' waitlist and never bothered to update about whether they got into the class or not because they accepted another offer. Not every URM is reporting their cycles and not everyone's reports are accurate. No year is the same as the year before and nothing is a guarantee. We don't know this kid's LORs, softs, how well he writes, when he's going to submit his application or anything. Given all this, it would just be dumb and intellectually dishonest to tell this guy he has 0 shot at Harvard. This isn't a personal argument, its just a factual one and anyone who objectively understands this law school process would agree with me. Not even sure why this is something that got you so riled up that you went through my posts trying to dig up something to use as a weapon against me like a hurt teenage girl.




If you're going to attempt to engage me in a debate, don't intentionally misrepresent what I said to facilitate your ability to advance your argument.

1) I'm not mad at anyone, I have no reason to be. I'm a AA male and my stats would still be very competitive for HYS if I was pale as casper the ghost.

2) I wasn't discouraging you or him, I am being realistic. He's not likely to get into Harvard, that's just a fact. As you said, there are many factors that can affect the outcome of his cycle, LORs, work experience, writing ability and when he submits his application, but at the end of the day it's primarily a numbers game, that's a fact, anyone who objectively understands this law school process would agree with me. You keep talking about how
there is not empirical data on URM splitters that will enable users to ascertain how good his chances are. That's irrelevant I never specified what his exact chances were, all I said was that he does have a chance but they were not very good.


3) My post never even directly addressed OP, I was merely responding to a hyperbolic post that was replete with misinformation. However you interpreted it as me discouraging OP and others that have similar stats such as yourself. Again, I never said op had NO shot at Harvard, so stop saying that. It is certainly possible to get Harvard with a 3.2 GPA if you have a 99th percentile LSAT score, but not at all likely. The majority of AA's admitted to Harvard are not rocking sub 3.5 GPA's, sorry to tell you, a small, small fraction are. OP should however apply to Harvard in addition to other t-14 schools, he's bound to get into some great schools, however Harvard is not likely to be among them.

MyNameIsntJames
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:18 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:26 pm

rav17 wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
rav17 wrote:
L_William_W wrote:
grades?? wrote:And hypothetically, if a black person got a 173 then they could walk into Harvard, even with a 2.5 GPA.


No, no, no and no. Please stop spreading misinformation. Nobody is getting into Harvard or any reputable law school with a 2.5 gpa, black or not, even if they had a 180 score. The gpa floor even for aa's at Harvard is about a 3.6. I know several aa's that had 173+ lsat scores and 3.5-3.6 gpa that didn't get into harvard. Of course there are some outliers, such as the aa princeton grad that has a 3.3 gpa, a 177 lsat and 3 years of solid w/e (i-banking, government etc.), but by and large you need at the very least about a 3.6 gpa regardless of your lsat score for harvard. For yale and stanford the GPA floor seems to be even higher, about a 3.7 for the latter and 3.8 for the former.



You're just as wrong as the person you quoted. Really annoying seeing people try to cite AA URM chances as if there's a definitive certainty. There's a number of applicants who have been at Harvard+Princeton below 3.5 and it's been established that if there's any "floor" for URM at Harvard it's a 3.2 and that's a soft one at that.

Just not nearly enough data of AA males with splitter stats like that applying to HLS for anyone to say conclusively what they'll decide. It's all anecdotal at this point.


You can whine and bitch about people trying to cite urm chances, but many people on this forum do it all the time, even for non urm candidates believe it or not (shocker I know!) . There is even a subform dedicated to chances threads and your petulance as well as your indignant sentiments vis-a-vis this phenomenon won't change that. I never said that it was impossible to get into Harvard with a 3.2 gpa. Based on lsn and some other sources, the gpa floor for aa's at Harvard appears to be about a 3.5-3.6. But I never said you absolutely needed to have at least a 3.5-3.6 as demonstrated by the fact that I conceded that are some outliers and that some aa's with sub 3.5 spa's & 170+ lsat scores do get into Harvard. However, you're deluding yourself if you think that happens habitually, or that the number aa's with such stats is even close to the number of aa's that are admitted with gpa's north of 3.5. I mean this is Harvard not Thomas Cooley, get your head out of your ass. The fact is, you're better off with a high gpa and a lower lsat like a 3.8 and a 163, than the reverse, like a 3.3 and a 169. True, Harvard is more forgiving of lower grades than say Stanford and Yale, but they definitely prefer splitters to reverse splitters.

Edit: Just perused through your posts and saw your stats. I surmise that the reason my post elicited such a visceral response from you is because it hurt your feelings, if that's the case that wasn't my intention, LOL.



Wow you're really mad. My response wasn't visceral, you're just wrong. And once more with the 'I read through your posts and saw you asked about Harvard once and now I know why you take this so personally.' I laugh whenever TLSers say that to me. If I was so weak minded that the opinions of random people online had the power to discourage/encourage my path toward Harvard or any other law school, then I don't belong there or anywhere else. I'm gonna study my ass off for the LSAT, do as well as possible and apply everywhere, weigh my options and then go to the best place. Harvard rejects kids with 4.0s and 175+ LSATs every year. If I don't get in, I'll be very at peace. You think my feelings are hurt because of your extremely inaccurate opinion on Harvard's admissions? Lmao. I said you're wrong because you are wrong and this guy has a legitimate chance at getting into Harvard.


It bothers me a million times more on TLS when I see people discourage other posters vs. myself. I don't care what people say about my fate, but I hate seeing people slam other aspiring individuals on these forums based on whimsical guesses and half-assed truths. People take the advice on these forums pretty seriously and I have no problem going to bat with anyone here to let an OP know that if they work their asses off and achieve the scores that they claim they'll get then they have a possibility of getting into a Harvard. Is it likely? No. But is Harvard really 'likely' for anybody? Every year there's a surprising admission somewhere. We can't guarantee that Harvard will absolutely say no to this guy. And more to the point, you saying there's a 3.5-3.6 floor is dead wrong because we've seen people on this forum get into HLS multiple times with a lower GPA than that.


You're angry about the simple truth that there are very few URM that apply to HYS or have extreme splitter stats like what this guy is proposing and we can't say with complete certainty that HLS would say no. There's a lot of URM with his proposed stats that have landed on HLS' waitlist and never bothered to update about whether they got into the class or not because they accepted another offer. Not every URM is reporting their cycles and not everyone's reports are accurate. No year is the same as the year before and nothing is a guarantee. We don't know this kid's LORs, softs, how well he writes, when he's going to submit his application or anything. Given all this, it would just be dumb and intellectually dishonest to tell this guy he has 0 shot at Harvard. This isn't a personal argument, its just a factual one and anyone who objectively understands this law school process would agree with me. Not even sure why this is something that got you so riled up that you went through my posts trying to dig up something to use as a weapon against me like a hurt teenage girl.




If you're going to attempt to engage me in a debate, don't intentionally misrepresent what I said to facilitate your ability to advance your argument.

1) I'm not mad at anyone, I have no reason to be. I'm a AA male and my stats would still be very competitive for HYS if I was pale as casper the ghost.

2) I wasn't discouraging you or him, I am being realistic. He's not likely to get into Harvard, that's just a fact. As you said, there are many factors that can affect the outcome of his cycle, LORs, work experience, writing ability and when he submits his application, but at the end of the day it's primarily a numbers game, that's a fact, anyone who objectively understands this law school process would agree with me. You keep talking about how
there is not empirical data on URM splitters that will enable users to ascertain how good his chances are. That's irrelevant I never specified what his exact chances were, all I said was that he does have a chance but they were not very good.


3) My post never even directly addressed OP, I was merely responding to a hyperbolic post that was replete with misinformation. However you interpreted it as me discouraging OP and others that have similar stats such as yourself. Again, I never said op had NO shot at Harvard, so stop saying that. It is certainly possible to get Harvard with a 3.2 GPA if you have a 99th percentile LSAT score, but not at all likely. OP should however apply to Harvard in addition to other t-14 schools, he's bound to get into some great schools, however Harvard is not likely to be among them.



We're in complete agreement here then and my apologies if I misinterpreted what you were getting at. I don't think Harvard is truly 'likely' for anyone honestly no matter how good the stats are. I did do some fishing around myLSN recently though in this last hour or so...There's no data for a URM with his GPA and proposed LSAT or within even 5 points of that score in the last 5 or so years...so its really a crap shoot. HLS did, however, WL a couple folks with his GPA and sub 170 LSATs so a 175 might just push him in.

I also agree with what you said to that original original poster you responded to. That guy suggesting someone getting into Harvard with a 2.5 and a 170 is a fool. I know that seems like it goes against everything I've just preached about lol, but once you've dipped THAT far down, there's nothing that's gonna bring you up to a Harvard level short of a purple heart and an addendum that says you couldn't do well your first two years of UG because you were adjusting to writing with your left hand after losing your right arm to an IED during your second tour of duty in Iraq.


But I think someone (URM) can make it in HLS without being at a 3.5, albeit their LSAT is going to have to be comparably through the roof. The boost for AA males is ridiculous and if your stats are that great then you probably got a good shot at HYS too. AA males scoring 175+ on the LSAT are unicorns. There's barely any stats for AA males of any GPA hitting that range and that breaks 75th for every school minus Yale I think, so *shrug*. We could talk hypos all day, hopefully we all just fucking get into Harvard and then we'll debate this in person lol.

rav17
Posts: 42
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 4:09 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby rav17 » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:40 pm

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
We're in complete agreement here then and my apologies if I misinterpreted what you were getting at. I don't think Harvard is truly 'likely' for anyone honestly no matter how good the stats are. I did do some fishing around myLSN recently though in this last hour or so...There's no data for a URM with his GPA and proposed LSAT or within even 5 points of that score in the last 5 or so years...so its really a crap shoot. HLS did, however, WL a couple folks with his GPA and sub 170 LSATs so a 175 might just push him in.

I also agree with what you said to that original original poster you responded to. That guy suggesting someone getting into Harvard with a 2.5 and a 170 is a fool. I know that seems like it goes against everything I've just preached about lol, but once you've dipped THAT far down, there's nothing that's gonna bring you up to a Harvard level short of a purple heart and an addendum that says you couldn't do well your first two years of UG because you were adjusting to writing with your left hand after losing your right arm to an IED during your second tour of duty in Iraq.


But I think someone (URM) can make it in HLS without being at a 3.5, albeit their LSAT is going to have to be comparably through the roof. The boost for AA males is ridiculous and if your stats are that great then you probably got a good shot at HYS too. AA males scoring 175+ on the LSAT are unicorns. There's barely any stats for AA males of any GPA hitting that range and that breaks 75th for every school minus Yale I think, so *shrug*. We could talk hypos all day, hopefully we all just fucking get into Harvard and then we'll debate this in person lol.



Agreed. You never know, urm admissions are a crapshoot, especially for reverse splitters. The fact that there is such a dearth of data on aa's with stats like his leaves so much uncertainty. There are several aa's on here and lsn have gotten harvard with <3.4 gpa's and 173+ lsat's. Further neither tls nor lsn is completely representative of the aa's that matriculate to hls so there could very well be even more. I'll be rooting for both you an OP this cycle. Good luck and kill the lsat.

User avatar
jnwa
Posts: 1127
Joined: Sun Oct 04, 2015 12:35 am

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby jnwa » Tue Jul 19, 2016 9:41 pm

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
When you realize you lost an argument absolutely, try ad hominem. It was probably a blessing you didn't get into Harvard. If an online board makes you lose your cool this quickly, imagine what the stresses and rigors of Harvard would've done.

Nonetheless, I'll entertain you for a bit because I'm in a good mood today:

-I have no 'vested interest' in anything. If I get into Harvard that will be amazing. If not, I'm sure I'll do just fine at other T-14 schools I get into. I want to go into public interest, not work in BigLaw, so I'm perfectly content with any school that accepts me. It seems you feel differently, which is a shame.
-I know what Harvard's median is. We all do. They do accept URMs with lower scores than you. That's not a point of contention. However, those URMs also have higher GPAs than you did when you applied, so their situation isn't comparable to yours. I said that a higher LSAT score may have helped off set your GPA to a higher extent and granted you acceptance and, truthfully, unless Harvard wrote you a letter saying "We wouldn't have let you in even if you scored a 180" or you actually scored a 180, applied and still got rejected, you can't say that your GPA is the sole factor that stopped you from getting in or that there was no possible scenario in which you could've received admittance.


It sounds like you're angry that you didn't get in and you're determined to let everyone else in a similar position know that they can't do it either and that's really sad. You should know their admissions' boards have let URMs in with a 3.2 before (documented) and they have a holistic approach to this process. His PS, LOR, and softs and time of application submittal will all be different than yours and if he scores 175+ instead of 173, then his statistics will be a bit higher as well. I don't see how being rejected from Harvard qualifies you to claim that everyone else in a similar position is guaranteed rejection. This statement shouldn't make you angry.

Your anger clearly stems from something a lot deeper than whatever I said to you. You didn't get into Harvard. Get over it. Don't tell this kid he has 0 shot at getting in though because you don't know that. You don't know what he's gonna score, you don't know what crazy admirable accomplishments he has outside of school and you don't know his story or a single admissions officer at Harvard. Your best answer is a 'unlikely/likely', but no one here is in a position to tell this man no. And hell yeah I'm going to defend that to the grave. Not because I need to 'believe' I'll get into Harvard; I have enough self-confidence. I don't want people aiming any lower than the best because a bunch of bitter ass TLSers on here want to crush this kid's dreams. And honestly bro, as a black dude you should be uplifting this guy and encouraging him to prosper as another brother like you and me instead of shitting on him and me like we're your enemies.


It wasnt an insult. My GPA was shit too. Im sure you know all about what it takes to succeed at Harvard lol. Ill still be attending a t14 so hopefully i can survive the "rigors".

I dont know why you think im angry, im going to a t14 for free plus a stipend. Im extremely happy with my cycle. I never said OP wouldnt get into Harvard, its just highly unlikely as he has a GPA well below what they usually accept. I would still encourage OP to apply, hell i applied to Yale and paid the $120 or whatever the app fee was for what was essentially a guaranteed rejection. Im always a fan of shooting your shot. Im not telling him its impossible but he asked for his chances. If someone with a 2.5 160 asked for their chances at Stanford my reply wouldnt be "its possible" even though its technically possible. Thats not how these threads work. OP will have a chance at some fantastic outcomes if he gets a 173+, Harvard is just an unlikely one.

Most of my posts on these kinds of threads are me telling black people with similar grades to shoot higher and retake because t14s with big money are very likely for black people with lower GPAs and good LSATs. This notion that im out here putting black people down because im resentful about my Harvard rejection is hilarious to me. Im debt averse and international so i cant clerk/do a lot of the elite govt work that Harvard does so well, and i want biglaw. I would take my current outcome over it.

OP will be in a great spot if he gets a 175. He may get Harvard but im not going to act like its a likely outcome and when he asks for his chances there, i would say they are low. If he asked for his chances at UVA, i would say they are pretty good, i didnt get in there either but i realize that my experience there was an exception rather than the rule for someone with my numbers. I brought up my anecdote because a few people on this thread were saying things that didnt make sense.

MyNameIsntJames
Posts: 338
Joined: Sat Apr 16, 2016 8:18 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby MyNameIsntJames » Tue Jul 19, 2016 10:41 pm

jnwa wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
When you realize you lost an argument absolutely, try ad hominem. It was probably a blessing you didn't get into Harvard. If an online board makes you lose your cool this quickly, imagine what the stresses and rigors of Harvard would've done.

Nonetheless, I'll entertain you for a bit because I'm in a good mood today:

-I have no 'vested interest' in anything. If I get into Harvard that will be amazing. If not, I'm sure I'll do just fine at other T-14 schools I get into. I want to go into public interest, not work in BigLaw, so I'm perfectly content with any school that accepts me. It seems you feel differently, which is a shame.
-I know what Harvard's median is. We all do. They do accept URMs with lower scores than you. That's not a point of contention. However, those URMs also have higher GPAs than you did when you applied, so their situation isn't comparable to yours. I said that a higher LSAT score may have helped off set your GPA to a higher extent and granted you acceptance and, truthfully, unless Harvard wrote you a letter saying "We wouldn't have let you in even if you scored a 180" or you actually scored a 180, applied and still got rejected, you can't say that your GPA is the sole factor that stopped you from getting in or that there was no possible scenario in which you could've received admittance.


It sounds like you're angry that you didn't get in and you're determined to let everyone else in a similar position know that they can't do it either and that's really sad. You should know their admissions' boards have let URMs in with a 3.2 before (documented) and they have a holistic approach to this process. His PS, LOR, and softs and time of application submittal will all be different than yours and if he scores 175+ instead of 173, then his statistics will be a bit higher as well. I don't see how being rejected from Harvard qualifies you to claim that everyone else in a similar position is guaranteed rejection. This statement shouldn't make you angry.

Your anger clearly stems from something a lot deeper than whatever I said to you. You didn't get into Harvard. Get over it. Don't tell this kid he has 0 shot at getting in though because you don't know that. You don't know what he's gonna score, you don't know what crazy admirable accomplishments he has outside of school and you don't know his story or a single admissions officer at Harvard. Your best answer is a 'unlikely/likely', but no one here is in a position to tell this man no. And hell yeah I'm going to defend that to the grave. Not because I need to 'believe' I'll get into Harvard; I have enough self-confidence. I don't want people aiming any lower than the best because a bunch of bitter ass TLSers on here want to crush this kid's dreams. And honestly bro, as a black dude you should be uplifting this guy and encouraging him to prosper as another brother like you and me instead of shitting on him and me like we're your enemies.


It wasnt an insult. My GPA was shit too. Im sure you know all about what it takes to succeed at Harvard lol. Ill still be attending a t14 so hopefully i can survive the "rigors".

I dont know why you think im angry, im going to a t14 for free plus a stipend. Im extremely happy with my cycle. I never said OP wouldnt get into Harvard, its just highly unlikely as he has a GPA well below what they usually accept. I would still encourage OP to apply, hell i applied to Yale and paid the $120 or whatever the app fee was for what was essentially a guaranteed rejection. Im always a fan of shooting your shot. Im not telling him its impossible but he asked for his chances. If someone with a 2.5 160 asked for their chances at Stanford my reply wouldnt be "its possible" even though its technically possible. Thats not how these threads work. OP will have a chance at some fantastic outcomes if he gets a 173+, Harvard is just an unlikely one.

Most of my posts on these kinds of threads are me telling black people with similar grades to shoot higher and retake because t14s with big money are very likely for black people with lower GPAs and good LSATs. This notion that im out here putting black people down because im resentful about my Harvard rejection is hilarious to me. Im debt averse and international so i cant clerk/do a lot of the elite govt work that Harvard does so well, and i want biglaw. I would take my current outcome over it.

OP will be in a great spot if he gets a 175. He may get Harvard but im not going to act like its a likely outcome and when he asks for his chances there, i would say they are low. If he asked for his chances at UVA, i would say they are pretty good, i didnt get in there either but i realize that my experience there was an exception rather than the rule for someone with my numbers. I brought up my anecdote because a few people on this thread were saying things that didnt make sense.


I see where you're coming from. I'm honestly surprised you didn't get UVA and even surprised if Harvard sent you a straight rejection. I'd think w a 173/3.2 that WL would at least be in the cards.

Truthfully, I think your cycle was probably harsher on you than most and for that I feel for you. And not even in a sarcastic, condescending way...that fucking blows forreal and I know if I had your stats and got a no from UVA I'd be sitting here like wtf. UVA should've been a shoe in with a 173/3.2 as a AA male URM. So much so that they MIGHT have been YP.

But if you got into other T-14 w money then its honestly no harm no foul. Harvard would've been nearly $200k out of pocket guaranteed and that's an absurd amount of money for anyone that doesn't come from a super wealthy family no matter where you work post-grad so you probably came ahead.

All things considered most people are probably much better off taking a school in T-14 w money over Harvard anyway. But we've all been brainwashed since kids to believe Harvard=great geniuses.

User avatar
oidsedidy
Posts: 59
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2016 4:02 am

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby oidsedidy » Wed Jul 20, 2016 1:09 am

MyNameIsntJames wrote:
jnwa wrote:
MyNameIsntJames wrote:
When you realize you lost an argument absolutely, try ad hominem. It was probably a blessing you didn't get into Harvard. If an online board makes you lose your cool this quickly, imagine what the stresses and rigors of Harvard would've done.

Nonetheless, I'll entertain you for a bit because I'm in a good mood today:

-I have no 'vested interest' in anything. If I get into Harvard that will be amazing. If not, I'm sure I'll do just fine at other T-14 schools I get into. I want to go into public interest, not work in BigLaw, so I'm perfectly content with any school that accepts me. It seems you feel differently, which is a shame.
-I know what Harvard's median is. We all do. They do accept URMs with lower scores than you. That's not a point of contention. However, those URMs also have higher GPAs than you did when you applied, so their situation isn't comparable to yours. I said that a higher LSAT score may have helped off set your GPA to a higher extent and granted you acceptance and, truthfully, unless Harvard wrote you a letter saying "We wouldn't have let you in even if you scored a 180" or you actually scored a 180, applied and still got rejected, you can't say that your GPA is the sole factor that stopped you from getting in or that there was no possible scenario in which you could've received admittance.


It sounds like you're angry that you didn't get in and you're determined to let everyone else in a similar position know that they can't do it either and that's really sad. You should know their admissions' boards have let URMs in with a 3.2 before (documented) and they have a holistic approach to this process. His PS, LOR, and softs and time of application submittal will all be different than yours and if he scores 175+ instead of 173, then his statistics will be a bit higher as well. I don't see how being rejected from Harvard qualifies you to claim that everyone else in a similar position is guaranteed rejection. This statement shouldn't make you angry.

Your anger clearly stems from something a lot deeper than whatever I said to you. You didn't get into Harvard. Get over it. Don't tell this kid he has 0 shot at getting in though because you don't know that. You don't know what he's gonna score, you don't know what crazy admirable accomplishments he has outside of school and you don't know his story or a single admissions officer at Harvard. Your best answer is a 'unlikely/likely', but no one here is in a position to tell this man no. And hell yeah I'm going to defend that to the grave. Not because I need to 'believe' I'll get into Harvard; I have enough self-confidence. I don't want people aiming any lower than the best because a bunch of bitter ass TLSers on here want to crush this kid's dreams. And honestly bro, as a black dude you should be uplifting this guy and encouraging him to prosper as another brother like you and me instead of shitting on him and me like we're your enemies.


It wasnt an insult. My GPA was shit too. Im sure you know all about what it takes to succeed at Harvard lol. Ill still be attending a t14 so hopefully i can survive the "rigors".

I dont know why you think im angry, im going to a t14 for free plus a stipend. Im extremely happy with my cycle. I never said OP wouldnt get into Harvard, its just highly unlikely as he has a GPA well below what they usually accept. I would still encourage OP to apply, hell i applied to Yale and paid the $120 or whatever the app fee was for what was essentially a guaranteed rejection. Im always a fan of shooting your shot. Im not telling him its impossible but he asked for his chances. If someone with a 2.5 160 asked for their chances at Stanford my reply wouldnt be "its possible" even though its technically possible. Thats not how these threads work. OP will have a chance at some fantastic outcomes if he gets a 173+, Harvard is just an unlikely one.

Most of my posts on these kinds of threads are me telling black people with similar grades to shoot higher and retake because t14s with big money are very likely for black people with lower GPAs and good LSATs. This notion that im out here putting black people down because im resentful about my Harvard rejection is hilarious to me. Im debt averse and international so i cant clerk/do a lot of the elite govt work that Harvard does so well, and i want biglaw. I would take my current outcome over it.

OP will be in a great spot if he gets a 175. He may get Harvard but im not going to act like its a likely outcome and when he asks for his chances there, i would say they are low. If he asked for his chances at UVA, i would say they are pretty good, i didnt get in there either but i realize that my experience there was an exception rather than the rule for someone with my numbers. I brought up my anecdote because a few people on this thread were saying things that didnt make sense.


I see where you're coming from. I'm honestly surprised you didn't get UVA and even surprised if Harvard sent you a straight rejection. I'd think w a 173/3.2 that WL would at least be in the cards.

Truthfully, I think your cycle was probably harsher on you than most and for that I feel for you. And not even in a sarcastic, condescending way...that fucking blows forreal and I know if I had your stats and got a no from UVA I'd be sitting here like wtf. UVA should've been a shoe in with a 173/3.2 as a AA male URM. So much so that they MIGHT have been YP.

But if you got into other T-14 w money then its honestly no harm no foul. Harvard would've been nearly $200k out of pocket guaranteed and that's an absurd amount of money for anyone that doesn't come from a super wealthy family no matter where you work post-grad so you probably came ahead.

All things considered most people are probably much better off taking a school in T-14 w money over Harvard anyway. But we've all been brainwashed since kids to believe Harvard=great geniuses.


This sure turned out to be an intense thread for an OP with a hypothetical LSAT!

HUalumni93
Posts: 7
Joined: Thu May 19, 2016 11:12 am

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby HUalumni93 » Sun Apr 30, 2017 7:23 pm

Just wanted to bump this thread for an update

My diagnostic was like 153. I am currently testing @173 on practice exams with an experimental. I took a break from social media and blogs to focus 100% on studying.

If I can do it working full time, anyone can. It's no reason to leave points on the table even I you don't plan on going to HYS.

User avatar
brinicolec
Posts: 4452
Joined: Wed Jun 29, 2016 7:09 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby brinicolec » Wed May 03, 2017 3:07 am

HUalumni93 wrote:Just wanted to bump this thread for an update

My diagnostic was like 153. I am currently testing @173 on practice exams with an experimental. I took a break from social media and blogs to focus 100% on studying.

If I can do it working full time, anyone can. It's no reason to leave points on the table even I you don't plan on going to HYS.


That's awesome. Keep up the good work!

jlyrix
Posts: 2
Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 11:54 am

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby jlyrix » Sat Jul 22, 2017 7:37 am

HUalumni93 wrote:Just wanted to bump this thread for an update

My diagnostic was like 153. I am currently testing @173 on practice exams with an experimental. I took a break from social media and blogs to focus 100% on studying.

If I can do it working full time, anyone can. It's no reason to leave points on the table even I you don't plan on going to HYS.



What was your final score? Where are you applying in this fall? I'm a URM candidate. Will begin studying in the upcoming 1-2 weeks.

fredfred
Posts: 140
Joined: Fri Jul 03, 2015 1:56 pm

Re: AA MALE. 3.23 GPA. 175 lsat chances

Postby fredfred » Sat Jul 22, 2017 9:03 am

jlyrix wrote:
HUalumni93 wrote:Just wanted to bump this thread for an update

My diagnostic was like 153. I am currently testing @173 on practice exams with an experimental. I took a break from social media and blogs to focus 100% on studying.

If I can do it working full time, anyone can. It's no reason to leave points on the table even I you don't plan on going to HYS.



What was your final score? Where are you applying in this fall? I'm a URM candidate. Will begin studying in the upcoming 1-2 weeks.


I'm willing to bet not anywhere close to a 175 because if he had, he would have been back by now.




Return to “Under Represented Law Student Forum”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: vitusiak and 4 guests