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Hey, attorney here with 10+ years of experience. You are going to get some pushback on Maurer because it is not highly ranked but I would take the money over debt most of the time. It is too big a gamble to take on debt you cannot discharge. Short of moving abroad and giving up your citizenship, you will never be free from it so long as it is not paid. People even at ND end up without jobs able to cover their debt loads.guwailawschool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:55 pmI am an international non-traditional (with ore 20 years of WE) applicant with a goal of becoming a legal consultant after law school. I have been offered an scholarship of close to full tuition by IU Maurer and a minimal amount by NDLS. Which one should I choose? Greatly appreciate your suggestions!!!
Did you read the thread? OP isn't a citizen, and the pushback against Maurer (and ND) here has nothing to do with ranking.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:15 pmHey, attorney here with 10+ years of experience. You are going to get some pushback on Maurer because it is not highly ranked but I would take the money over debt most of the time. It is too big a gamble to take on debt you cannot discharge. Short of moving abroad and giving up your citizenship, you will never be free from it so long as it is not paid. People even at ND end up without jobs able to cover their debt loads.guwailawschool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:55 pmI am an international non-traditional (with ore 20 years of WE) applicant with a goal of becoming a legal consultant after law school. I have been offered an scholarship of close to full tuition by IU Maurer and a minimal amount by NDLS. Which one should I choose? Greatly appreciate your suggestions!!!
I know he has not gotten that pushback yet, but he likely will at some point if he continues to post about Maurer.cavalier1138 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:28 pmDid you read the thread? OP isn't a citizen, and the pushback against Maurer (and ND) here has nothing to do with ranking.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:15 pmHey, attorney here with 10+ years of experience. You are going to get some pushback on Maurer because it is not highly ranked but I would take the money over debt most of the time. It is too big a gamble to take on debt you cannot discharge. Short of moving abroad and giving up your citizenship, you will never be free from it so long as it is not paid. People even at ND end up without jobs able to cover their debt loads.guwailawschool wrote: ↑Tue Jul 19, 2022 5:55 pmI am an international non-traditional (with ore 20 years of WE) applicant with a goal of becoming a legal consultant after law school. I have been offered an scholarship of close to full tuition by IU Maurer and a minimal amount by NDLS. Which one should I choose? Greatly appreciate your suggestions!!!
ND is a brand name in the US, everyone as seen "Rudy." I do not know how known it is globally, I suspect it has limited name recognition. It is certainly easier to transfer to a T14 from ND than Maurer. But Maurer will provide opportunities for a mature student looking to build a career in law.guwailawschool wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:32 pmGreatly appreciate your perpective @johndooley! Which would you choose if debt were not an issue? Is NDLS more portable globally or eadier to transfer to a T14?
This is downright idiotic advice that ignores the OP's very specific situation. Ignoring your overly rosy view of legal hiring (you get dragged enough for that in other threads, and it's clear that survivorship bias is a hell of a drug), getting the H1B visa is much more difficult than you have claimed it is.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:39 pmND is a brand name in the US, everyone as seen "Rudy." I do not know how known it is globally, I suspect it has limited name recognition. It is certainly easier to transfer to a T14 from ND than Maurer. But Maurer will provide opportunities for a mature student looking to build a career in law.guwailawschool wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:32 pmGreatly appreciate your perpective @johndooley! Which would you choose if debt were not an issue? Is NDLS more portable globally or eadier to transfer to a T14?
I didn’t get dragged for an overly rosy view of legal hiring in other threads. Especially not when I have posted my job listing that received several resumes. I got dragged for pointing out that I make more money, living in a bigger house, and work fewer hours than any corporate associate in big law and many partners.cavalier1138 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:58 pmThis is downright idiotic advice that ignores the OP's very specific situation. Ignoring your overly rosy view of legal hiring (you get dragged enough for that in other threads, and it's clear that survivorship bias is a hell of a drug), getting the H1B visa is much more difficult than you have claimed it is.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:39 pmND is a brand name in the US, everyone as seen "Rudy." I do not know how known it is globally, I suspect it has limited name recognition. It is certainly easier to transfer to a T14 from ND than Maurer. But Maurer will provide opportunities for a mature student looking to build a career in law.guwailawschool wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:32 pmGreatly appreciate your perpective @johndooley! Which would you choose if debt were not an issue? Is NDLS more portable globally or eadier to transfer to a T14?
Literally any foreign citizen working as a lawyer in the US will tell you that you need biglaw to have anything resembling a guarantee of getting that visa. I have no idea why you think you have a better understanding of the system than they do.
You’re forgetting a crucial part here. Even if he struck out of jobs and wound up in debt and was deported, he would never then have to pay back the loans. As a foreign National he will not have to repay and he will have a new professional credential in his home country. Not bad.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:06 pmOP, if you're not going to reapply, Maurer is the way to go. But I would warn against that option (or even the hypothetical option of NDLS with money) as an international who needs a visa.
You're forgetting a more crucial fact. He is unlikely to get a loan in the US (precisely because of the flight risk you articulated so well). He will probably need to take out a loan from his home country.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:12 pmYou’re forgetting a crucial part here. Even if he struck out of jobs and wound up in debt and was deported, he would never then have to pay back the loans. As a foreign National he will not have to repay and he will have a new professional credential in his home country. Not bad.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:06 pmOP, if you're not going to reapply, Maurer is the way to go. But I would warn against that option (or even the hypothetical option of NDLS with money) as an international who needs a visa.
Americans in deep student debt (talking 500k plus with accrued interest) often move to turkey or Vietnam to teach English and not pay back the debt. It is not ideal but what other choice do they have
I know of three examples of this happening. Thing is if you pursue private loans the interest rate is so high that you’ll want to skip town. But three years studying in the states and moving out at zero cost isn’t too bad. I’m sure the law schools will point OP in the right direction to access the funds. He is a customer effectively and they need his money.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:16 pmYou're forgetting a more crucial fact. He is unlikely to get a loan in the US (precisely because of the flight risk you articulated so well). He will probably need to take out a loan from his home country.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:12 pmYou’re forgetting a crucial part here. Even if he struck out of jobs and wound up in debt and was deported, he would never then have to pay back the loans. As a foreign National he will not have to repay and he will have a new professional credential in his home country. Not bad.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:06 pmOP, if you're not going to reapply, Maurer is the way to go. But I would warn against that option (or even the hypothetical option of NDLS with money) as an international who needs a visa.
Americans in deep student debt (talking 500k plus with accrued interest) often move to turkey or Vietnam to teach English and not pay back the debt. It is not ideal but what other choice do they have
They don't point in any direction because there are no directions. You know of three examples of this happening. I know if many more examples of this not happening. Doesn't change anything.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:18 pmI know of three examples of this happening. Thing is if you pursue private loans the interest rate is so high that you’ll want to skip town. But three years studying in the states and moving out at zero cost isn’t too bad. I’m sure the law schools will point OP in the right direction to access the funds. He is a customer effectively and they need his money.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:16 pmYou're forgetting a more crucial fact. He is unlikely to get a loan in the US (precisely because of the flight risk you articulated so well). He will probably need to take out a loan from his home country.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:12 pmYou’re forgetting a crucial part here. Even if he struck out of jobs and wound up in debt and was deported, he would never then have to pay back the loans. As a foreign National he will not have to repay and he will have a new professional credential in his home country. Not bad.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:06 pmOP, if you're not going to reapply, Maurer is the way to go. But I would warn against that option (or even the hypothetical option of NDLS with money) as an international who needs a visa.
Americans in deep student debt (talking 500k plus with accrued interest) often move to turkey or Vietnam to teach English and not pay back the debt. It is not ideal but what other choice do they have
If you are not Canadian or Mexican then most universities will not give financial aid. Merit and specific scholarships for foreign students are not exactly abundant. Not every single international student on a campus is able to afford full tuition. How do they get by? Loans. They exist, they are out there, OP will find one.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:25 pmThey don't point in any direction because there are no directions. You know of three examples of this happening. I know if many more examples of this not happening. Doesn't change anything.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:18 pmI know of three examples of this happening. Thing is if you pursue private loans the interest rate is so high that you’ll want to skip town. But three years studying in the states and moving out at zero cost isn’t too bad. I’m sure the law schools will point OP in the right direction to access the funds. He is a customer effectively and they need his money.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:16 pmYou're forgetting a more crucial fact. He is unlikely to get a loan in the US (precisely because of the flight risk you articulated so well). He will probably need to take out a loan from his home country.johndooley wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:12 pmYou’re forgetting a crucial part here. Even if he struck out of jobs and wound up in debt and was deported, he would never then have to pay back the loans. As a foreign National he will not have to repay and he will have a new professional credential in his home country. Not bad.BEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:06 pmOP, if you're not going to reapply, Maurer is the way to go. But I would warn against that option (or even the hypothetical option of NDLS with money) as an international who needs a visa.
Americans in deep student debt (talking 500k plus with accrued interest) often move to turkey or Vietnam to teach English and not pay back the debt. It is not ideal but what other choice do they have
Very slim chance of him getting a US loan without a local cosigner.
Thanks, I believe in you.
Thanks a lot my friend! Tried to PM you but message did not go though. Please let me know how i can reach out to you! My email: billqiu@vip.sina.comBEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:10 pmAgree with cavalier entirely. I would take the lSAT and apply. Am also an international non traditional recent graduate who transferred from a t30 (with full scholarship) to a t6. Happy to talk to you about my experience and share other advice. Feel free to dm me.
I'd try it again, I prefer not to give out my email on this site. A lot of haters here but keep your head down and move forward and it works out!guwailawschool wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 3:59 pmThanks a lot my friend! Tried to PM you but message did not go though. Please let me know how i can reach out to you! My email: billqiu@vip.sina.comBEng,MBA,FRM,JD(?) wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 2:10 pmAgree with cavalier entirely. I would take the lSAT and apply. Am also an international non traditional recent graduate who transferred from a t30 (with full scholarship) to a t6. Happy to talk to you about my experience and share other advice. Feel free to dm me.
Hello @Cavalier1138, Thank you for all your candid advices. I tried to send out a few PMs but did not go through. Can you please let me know what I need to do to get them through? Thx a lot!cavalier1138 wrote: ↑Wed Jul 20, 2022 11:20 amWhat do you mean by "legal consultant"? Where do you want to work? And what's your citizenship status?
If you aren't a citizen, you have very few options to get the right visa that will let you stay in the United States. My understanding is that big law firms are one of the only semi-reliable paths to those visas, and although ND gives you a better shot at those kinds of firms than IU does, it still sounds like a bad idea.