Aiming for Texas biglaw Forum

[seabisque]

I’m an international student (Canadian) hoping to break into Texas biglaw. Given the insular nature of the Texas market and how tough it is for OOS students to land a summer associate job in the market, I’d imagine it would be even harder, if not impossible, for an international student to pull it off (and get sponsored for an H1B visa). As such, does anyone have any information on how international students have fared when vying for Texas biglaw? What would be the best strategy for a Canadian to land a job in Texas and/or what schools would you recommend I aim for? Should I even try for US law schools or just stay in Canada? I’ve read UT is the best path for that but I’d imagine as an international I’d have to crush it in law school to even have a shot at Texas biglaw.

Stats are 175/4.X

[Wubbles]

Well, with your numbers you can probably go to any law school in the country, even Yale and Stanford are well within range. Texas tends to love Harvard students

[BlackAndOrange84]

I’m an international student (Canadian) hoping to break into Texas biglaw. Given the insular nature of the Texas market and how tough it is for OOS students to land a summer associate job in the market, I’d imagine it would be even harder, if not impossible, for an international student to pull it off (and get sponsored for an H1B visa). As such, does anyone have any information on how international students have fared when vying for Texas biglaw? What would be the best strategy for a Canadian to land a job in Texas and/or what schools would you recommend I aim for? Should I even try for US law schools or just stay in Canada? I’ve read UT is the best path for that but I’d imagine as an international I’d have to crush it in law school to even have a shot at Texas biglaw.

Stats are 175/4.X

No anecdotes on your specific situation, but I think the "insular nature of the Texas market" is pretty exaggerated. Maybe Austin is that way, and Dallas to a lesser extent, but Houston has very little of that. Most firms are hungry for bodies and don't require ties. You just need to make a halfway convincing case that you want to be there, which isn't that tough: NYC comp, TX COL.

[cavalier1138]

Your grades are going to be less important than the interview. So it's less about "crushing it" in law school than it is about taking the best option for the lowest debt (you're likely to get a full ride at at least one of CCN) and selling the interviewer on your desire to spend at least the next few decades in Texas.

[BrainsyK]

PM me.

[seabisque]

PM me.

I think my profile is too green to be allowed to PM you. If I created a throwaway email, would you mind getting in touch that way? Thank you so much!

Well, with your numbers you can probably go to any law school in the country, even Yale and Stanford are well within range. Texas tends to love Harvard students

Should I be unlucky with the visa lottery, I worry about having to move back to Canada and be stuck servicing the debt on a Canadian corporate law salary. Are Texas firms open to any other T14s? I've heard anecdotal evidence of UVA grads doing particularly well in Texas, but that opportunity likely does not apply to me given that the school itself does not matriculate many international students.

Your grades are going to be less important than the interview. So it's less about "crushing it" in law school than it is about taking the best option for the lowest debt (you're likely to get a full ride at at least one of CCN) and selling the interviewer on your desire to spend at least the next few decades in Texas.

That's good to hear. Is it likely I strike out in OCIs for Texas once a firm finds out I would need to be sponsored?

No anecdotes on your specific situation, but I think the "insular nature of the Texas market" is pretty exaggerated. Maybe Austin is that way, and Dallas to a lesser extent, but Houston has very little of that. Most firms are hungry for bodies and don't require ties. You just need to make a halfway convincing case that you want to be there, which isn't that tough: NYC comp, TX COL.

Texas would be a dream come true. Are Texas firms as open to sponsoring internationals as, say, NYC firms? My guess is the path of least resistance would involve trying to get hired by one of the NYC-based firms with satellite offices in Houston.

[beinghuman]

In re sponsorship, I believe that, as a Canadian, you might be able to get some sort of work visa under NAFTA that you would need to renew every year or so, if you are unable to get an H1B.
That's what I was told a Canadian alum at my school did. However, with that visa, you cannot become a permanent resident down the road.
I'd double check this information though.

[Wubbles]

I was throwing Harvard out there because you have the numbers and it would certainly be enough of a bump to overcome not having any ties to Texas. UVA attracts a lot of students from the southern US who can pitch "why Texas" with ease, but you'll probably get a full ride there so it could very well be the place to go.

Anecdote. I know a Canadian who landed Houston without ties from a lower T14, but they were a Mexican-Canadian URM with good grades.

[nealric]

I’m an international student (Canadian) hoping to break into Texas biglaw. Given the insular nature of the Texas market and how tough it is for OOS students to land a summer associate job in the market, I’d imagine it would be even harder, if not impossible, for an international student to pull it off (and get sponsored for an H1B visa). As such, does anyone have any information on how international students have fared when vying for Texas biglaw? What would be the best strategy for a Canadian to land a job in Texas and/or what schools would you recommend I aim for? Should I even try for US law schools or just stay in Canada? I’ve read UT is the best path for that but I’d imagine as an international I’d have to crush it in law school to even have a shot at Texas biglaw.

Stats are 175/4.X

No anecdotes on your specific situation, but I think the "insular nature of the Texas market" is pretty exaggerated. Maybe Austin is that way, and Dallas to a lesser extent, but Houston has very little of that. Most firms are hungry for bodies and don't require ties. You just need to make a halfway convincing case that you want to be there, which isn't that tough: NYC comp, TX COL.

The insularity of the Texas market used to be much more pronounced 10-15 years ago when the "Big 3" (BB/VE/Fulbright) ruled the roost in Texas biglaw. Today, firms like Latham and Kirkland have upset the old order, and a the old hiring practices have mostly broken down. If you go to HYS and can articulate a halfway convincing reason why you want to be in Texas, I'd think it's an option available to you.

Don't bother with University of Texas with your numbers unless you have a full ride (and even then, with the visa situation, I'd be a bit wary because employers outside of biglaw probably won't sponsor you). Staying in Canada is not an option for Texas practice. A few NYC firms go to the University of Toronto and McGill, but that's about the extent of U.S. biglaw hiring from Canadian schools.

[yankees12345!]

Go to Texas Law with a full ride, then Texas big law, simple as that. Otherwise you’re just hella deep in debt to go HYS, and come out with an identical job.

Only potential downside might be that a Texas degree doesn’t travel as far in Canada if you ever want / need to move back?

[nealric]

Go to Texas Law with a full ride, then Texas big law, simple as that. Otherwise you’re just hella deep in debt to go HYS, and come out with an identical job.

Only potential downside might be that a Texas degree doesn’t travel as far in Canada if you ever want / need to move back?

It's true you might get an identical job cheaply at Texas, but you greatly increase the risk of coming home empty handed. The problem with going to Texas is that you likely need to be top 1/3 to have a shot at a employer is willing to sponsor a visa (i.e. the larger biglaw firms who are used to sponsoring visas). If OP can't get sponsored, they will be in an awkward position trying to market themselves with a Texas degree in Canada.

Also worth noting that OP can't qualify for federal student loans, so would need to either self-fund or find alternative financing.

[seabisque]

Go to Texas Law with a full ride, then Texas big law, simple as that. Otherwise you’re just hella deep in debt to go HYS, and come out with an identical job.

Only potential downside might be that a Texas degree doesn’t travel as far in Canada if you ever want / need to move back?

It's true you might get an identical job cheaply at Texas, but you greatly increase the risk of coming home empty handed. The problem with going to Texas is that you likely need to be top 1/3 to have a shot at a employer is willing to sponsor a visa (i.e. the larger biglaw firms who are used to sponsoring visas). If OP can't get sponsored, they will be in an awkward position trying to market themselves with a Texas degree in Canada.

Also worth noting that OP can't qualify for federal student loans, so would need to either self-fund or find alternative financing.

While attending UT is a wise move for many, I'm afraid if I go and strike out of Texas biglaw, I'd strike out of biglaw altogether. The last thing I want is to have to come back to Canada with a geographically restricting degree, so the goal is definitely to stay in the US for the long term. However, from what I've read, it seems going from an international student to a green card is notoriously difficult for lawyers.

[HenryHankPalmer]

Current UT student. I love Texas Law, and the 33% for Biglaw number that gets thrown around is dated, people up to and at median are having no trouble finding Biglaw jobs, but OP should only go to Texas if it's free. While you would have a convincing case from the entire T14, I work at a Dallas BL firm and see more Stanford, UChi, Duke, and UVA grads than the other T14s. The same is more or less true in Houston, although you see more Harvard folks there. As others have said, Texas isn't as insular or tie-conscious as it was a decade ago. That said, Dallas is harder to crack than Houston, mostly because the summer classes are smaller and firms don't like running the risk of getting burned by someone that wants to take advantage of the active 1L SA hiring in Texas then head to NY/CA/DC the next summer. Dallas is certainly not impossible, but OOS/foreign students from non-UT law schools seem to have an easier time in Houston.

[nealric]

Current UT student. I love Texas Law, and the 33% for Biglaw number that gets thrown around is dated, people up to and at median are having no trouble finding Biglaw jobs, but OP should only go to Texas if it's free. While you would have a convincing case from the entire T14, I work at a Dallas BL firm and see more Stanford, UChi, Duke, and UVA grads than the other T14s. The same is more or less true in Houston, although you see more Harvard folks there. As others have said, Texas isn't as insular or tie-conscious as it was a decade ago. That said, Dallas is harder to crack than Houston, mostly because the summer classes are smaller and firms don't like running the risk of getting burned by someone that wants to take advantage of the active 1L SA hiring in Texas then head to NY/CA/DC the next summer. Dallas is certainly not impossible, but OOS/foreign students from non-UT law schools seem to have an easier time in Houston.

To be clear: I was not saying you need top 1/3 for biglaw, but top 1/3 to get biglaw and a firm willing to visa sponsor. Kirkland will probably sponsor your visa- Gardere probably not.

[seabisque]

Current UT student. I love Texas Law, and the 33% for Biglaw number that gets thrown around is dated, people up to and at median are having no trouble finding Biglaw jobs, but OP should only go to Texas if it's free. While you would have a convincing case from the entire T14, I work at a Dallas BL firm and see more Stanford, UChi, Duke, and UVA grads than the other T14s. The same is more or less true in Houston, although you see more Harvard folks there. As others have said, Texas isn't as insular or tie-conscious as it was a decade ago. That said, Dallas is harder to crack than Houston, mostly because the summer classes are smaller and firms don't like running the risk of getting burned by someone that wants to take advantage of the active 1L SA hiring in Texas then head to NY/CA/DC the next summer. Dallas is certainly not impossible, but OOS/foreign students from non-UT law schools seem to have an easier time in Houston.

Thank you for your response. It’s reassuring to hear UT students are doing so well in the recruiting pool. Do you happen to know how your international classmates fared in the job hunt? I’ll definitely apply to the schools you mentioned, so hopefully one takes a chance on me. How are career services at UT? Also, do schools like Penn have much pull in the Texas market?

[MarkmanPapers]

Speaking as a Penn student, those who I’ve seen get jobs in Texas disproportionately have ties, but that’s partially regional selection (60% of the school is from NYC or Philly metro and wants to go to NYC/DC/Philly).

[VirginiaFan]

As a UVA student, I can say that Texas is very, very manageable from here. I think a Dillard would be an ideal outcome if you don't get the Rubenstein (or something else that covers COL as well).

[seabisque]

As a UVA student, I can say that Texas is very, very manageable from here. I think a Dillard would be an ideal outcome if you don't get the Rubenstein (or something else that covers COL as well).

Sounds like UVA is the way to go!