NYU$ v Michigan $$

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NYU v Michigan

NYU
7
27%
Michigan
19
73%
 
Total votes: 26

saquon4k

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NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby saquon4k » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:19 pm

Hey there, I am stuck between NYU and Michigan. I want to work in big law, but I am open minded as to what area. However, my background is in tech / engineering, so I will surely explore tech law / internet privacy law / entrepreneurship law.

I had a 3.47 gpa (electrical engineering at Virginia), a 176 LSAT score, and worked in IT Consulting / software development for about four years after graduation.

Given all costs were equal, I'd likely choose NYU due to my family ties there (i grew up in ny), but this is not the case. I've listed my offers below.

1. NYU, 52 K

pros: location (family ties, this is important to me), clinical strength in ip policy, strength in tech law in general

2. Michigan, 90 K

pros: cost, clinic dedicated primarily to entrepreneurship

I appealed my award at NYU, but I've heard its not likely that they will budge on the offer. Therefore, I think it will cost me around 85 K more to attend. I fortunately do have about 40 K saved right now to dedicate solely to law school expenses, and think its in the cards to get a 1L Summer firm job along with a 2L Summer firm job, so that's some solid income right there. The rest of the costs will come from loans as I expect no family support.

I would appreciate some of your thoughts on my decision. Please let me know if I haven't been detailed enough.

QContinuum

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby QContinuum » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:44 am

NYU is worth more than Michigan for BigLaw, but not $85k more. My vote's in for Mich.

(Also, by the by, don't count on landing a 1L BigLaw SA gig. The majority of 1Ls spend their summer doing public interest work or a judicial internship, typically supported by a very modest school stipend or comparable external funding.)

Congrats on your offers!

cavalier1138

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby cavalier1138 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 6:04 am

Yeah, I'd say Michigan if the cost of living makes the difference that stark. And ditto on not expecting a 1L SA position.

saquon4k

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby saquon4k » Mon Apr 08, 2019 11:55 am

I recognize now that I'm being overly optimistic about the 1L SA position, so I will factor that in.

Thanks for the input though. I think that I knew Michigan was the better buy in my gut, but the pro NYU sentiment around me had me questioning it.

QContinuum

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby QContinuum » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:05 pm

saquon4k wrote:I recognize now that I'm being overly optimistic about the 1L SA position, so I will factor that in.

Thanks for the input though. I think that I knew Michigan was the better buy in my gut, but the pro NYU sentiment around me had me questioning it.

Congrats again and happy to help!

AdieuCali

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby AdieuCali » Mon Apr 08, 2019 12:23 pm

I agree NYU is not worth $80k+ more than UM, but OP, you said you have family ties in NYC. Will you be able to live with family at low/no-rent during law school? If so, that may knock 40k off your NYU COA. Add in the fact that you won't have to pay double-rent in AA & NYC during the summers, and that difference may only be ~$30k.

If the difference is only $30-$40k, I think NYU's slightly better Biglaw placement (in quality and quantity) and your own happiness for the next 3 years weigh in favor of NYU. https://www.lstreports.com/compare/nyu/michigan/

Also while 1L SAs are very rare, there are more 1L IP SAs than regular ones. Still very selective, but NYU may give you a slight advantage in snagging one of those. We're talking about marginal differences on a low-likelihood opportunity to begin with, but still worth consideration.

saquon4k

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby saquon4k » Mon Apr 08, 2019 4:49 pm

AdieuCali wrote:I agree NYU is not worth $80k+ more than UM, but OP, you said you have family ties in NYC. Will you be able to live with family at low/no-rent during law school? If so, that may knock 40k off your NYU COA. Add in the fact that you won't have to pay double-rent in AA & NYC during the summers, and that difference may only be ~$30k.

If the difference is only $30-$40k, I think NYU's slightly better Biglaw placement (in quality and quantity) and your own happiness for the next 3 years weigh in favor of NYU. https://www.lstreports.com/compare/nyu/michigan/

Also while 1L SAs are very rare, there are more 1L IP SAs than regular ones. Still very selective, but NYU may give you a slight advantage in snagging one of those. We're talking about marginal differences on a low-likelihood opportunity to begin with, but still worth consideration.


To answer your question, Yes. I have 2 possible housing outcomes:

1. I live in the city.

2. I commute to school from long island. My parents still reside there.
- this would cost me about 4 K a year in LIRR passes and Subway passes.
- the commute would be between 2 and 2.5 hours a day on average
- i am concerned that this would reduce the value of NYC (events, networking, etc) / hurt my academic potential

Outcome 1 leaves me paying about 85 K more (than Mich).
Outcome 2 leaves me paying 43K more assuming living expenses average out at 15 K a year. My math : 85K - ((15K - 4K) * 3) - (3 K summer rent in mich * 3)
- In a purely financial decision, I'd probably take NYU at 43 K more due to the points you made above (happiness and big law placement), but in this situation I worry that I won't be getting the most out of the experience. However, sacrifices have to be made sometimes!

I hadn't factored in the double rent situation or the slightly better chance at a 1L IP SA position, so thank you for your input!

AdieuCali

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby AdieuCali » Mon Apr 08, 2019 5:16 pm

saquon4k wrote:
To answer your question, Yes. I have 2 possible housing outcomes:

1. I live in the city.

2. I commute to school from long island. My parents still reside there.
- this would cost me about 4 K a year in LIRR passes and Subway passes.
- the commute would be between 2 and 2.5 hours a day on average
- i am concerned that this would reduce the value of NYC (events, networking, etc) / hurt my academic potential

Outcome 1 leaves me paying about 85 K more (than Mich).
Outcome 2 leaves me paying 43K more assuming living expenses average out at 15 K a year. My math : 85K - ((15K - 4K) * 3) - (3 K summer rent in mich * 3)
- In a purely financial decision, I'd probably take NYU at 43 K more due to the points you made above (happiness and big law placement), but in this situation I worry that I won't be getting the most out of the experience. However, sacrifices have to be made sometimes!

I hadn't factored in the double rent situation or the slightly better chance at a 1L IP SA position, so thank you for your input!

I agree sitting on the train for 2.5 hours a day is brutal and may hurt your grades. But there is a 3rd option: live in the city for 1L and LI for 2L/3L. Since you want biglaw only your 1L grades matter absent a strong desire to clerk. You’d also be able to make friends and share in the 1L experience.

Once your a 2L you could block your schedule so you’d only have to commute 2-3 days a week. Maybe sublet one of your classmate’s place during your 2L SA so you can spend more time at work and social events.

If I was in your shoes, I’d probably go Michigan. But you can probably make NYU work.

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GFox345

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby GFox345 » Mon Apr 08, 2019 8:25 pm

Michigan. Not that close.

Auxilio

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby Auxilio » Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:52 am

AdieuCali wrote:I agree sitting on the train for 2.5 hours a day is brutal and may hurt your grades. But there is a 3rd option: live in the city for 1L and LI for 2L/3L. Since you want biglaw only your 1L grades matter absent a strong desire to clerk. You’d also be able to make friends and share in the 1L experience.


This was my exact thought when reading his response. Especially if you can be productive on the train. I think it's worth noting too that 2.5 hours of public transit commuting is a lot better than 2.5 hours of driving (in my mind). I had about that long of a commute by bus in undergrad and it's basically the only time I ever did any reading for class.

I think both options are very viable if you don't mind living in LI for a couple years.

AdieuCali

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby AdieuCali » Tue Apr 09, 2019 1:12 pm

Auxilio wrote:
AdieuCali wrote:I agree sitting on the train for 2.5 hours a day is brutal and may hurt your grades. But there is a 3rd option: live in the city for 1L and LI for 2L/3L. Since you want biglaw only your 1L grades matter absent a strong desire to clerk. You’d also be able to make friends and share in the 1L experience.


This was my exact thought when reading his response. Especially if you can be productive on the train. I think it's worth noting too that 2.5 hours of public transit commuting is a lot better than 2.5 hours of driving (in my mind). I had about that long of a commute by bus in undergrad and it's basically the only time I ever did any reading for class.

I think both options are very viable if you don't mind living in LI for a couple years.


I used to have a 50-mile commute in SoCal. It was either a 50-70min drive or a 90-minute train ride plus a 10 minute walk. I definitely preferred the train. I actually did all of my law school apps while I was commuting. I've never ridden LIRR so I don't know how practical it is to do work aboard, but I think a non-driving commute without too many transfers would probably be fine for 2L/3L.

saquon4k

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby saquon4k » Thu Apr 11, 2019 7:31 pm

AdieuCali wrote:
Auxilio wrote:
AdieuCali wrote:I agree sitting on the train for 2.5 hours a day is brutal and may hurt your grades. But there is a 3rd option: live in the city for 1L and LI for 2L/3L. Since you want biglaw only your 1L grades matter absent a strong desire to clerk. You’d also be able to make friends and share in the 1L experience.


This was my exact thought when reading his response. Especially if you can be productive on the train. I think it's worth noting too that 2.5 hours of public transit commuting is a lot better than 2.5 hours of driving (in my mind). I had about that long of a commute by bus in undergrad and it's basically the only time I ever did any reading for class.

I think both options are very viable if you don't mind living in LI for a couple years.


I used to have a 50-mile commute in SoCal. It was either a 50-70min drive or a 90-minute train ride plus a 10 minute walk. I definitely preferred the train. I actually did all of my law school apps while I was commuting. I've never ridden LIRR so I don't know how practical it is to do work aboard, but I think a non-driving commute without too many transfers would probably be fine for 2L/3L.


The LIRR is generally quiet enough in the morning to do some reading, so I definitely could use the time on the train productively. In fact, I did half of my LSAT prep on the DC Metro, so I have some experience with on the go work.

You both make great points though. If I end up going with NYU, I'll consider lowering the cost in this manner.

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Sls17

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby Sls17 » Thu Apr 11, 2019 10:11 pm

These are both great options and compatible with your goals. Michigan is the practical choice; it’s cheaper and should get you where you want to go. I don’t think NYU is objectively worth the higher cost but I don’t think it’s a crazy pick either, especially if your preference is strong enough that you’re willing to take on that commute to cut costs. But as you haven’t expressed more than what sounds like a mild preference for New York / NYU, Michigan seems like the call.

objctnyrhnr

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Re: NYU$ v Michigan $$

Postby objctnyrhnr » Sat Apr 13, 2019 6:57 pm

Both of these schools are great options. I urge you not to underestimate the potential performance bump (both in networking and in performance) that can result from not having to leave your comfort zone for law school (or conversely the added difficulty that could result from moving to a completely new place while embarking on a journey as intense as 1L). Not sure it’s necessarily dispositive in your situation, but I would encourage you to consider it.



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