WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

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Law_Bound

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WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby Law_Bound » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:27 am

My total debt load upon graduation:

WashU - 27k

UT - 100k

WashU has offered me a full tuition scholarship, I received much less from UT. My COL and some expenses are going to be covered by my family which gets me the total debt loads listed above.

-I am from the West Coast originally and have literally no geographical preference besides one thing: Not having to permanently settle in the MidWest.

I have no issue with living in St. Louis for the next three years, but would definitely be targeting NYC/DC. I do have to say I am really tempted by TX for its 0 income tax, weather and low COL.

-Ideally i'd like to get started in big law before moving lateral into a more corporate/in-house situation. I know big law is doable in NYC from WashU but is much more difficult than going into the TX market from UT. With basically very little debt coming out of WashU though I feel like my options would be flexible enough to take gov or mid law if that is whats needed to move to a better location (although this would not be my first choice).

-3.3/172

-I've taken the LSAT 5 times and do not see myself taking it again. Definitely peaked. Only consideration is that most of my applications went complete in late February. I've been waitlisted at pretty much every T14 other than HYS. Still have to hear back from UCLA and got a USC reject.

I'm wondering if there is some merit to considering a reapply and getting my apps out right as they open.

objctnyrhnr

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby objctnyrhnr » Tue Apr 02, 2019 11:46 am

Reasonable minds can probably differ on this question. First, congrats on your offers.

In my view, UT is the ultimate regional powerhouse. This is so because it’s the indisputably best law school for miles and miles and the nearby markets are sizable and packed with UT grads. This is significant because, in my view, if you miss biglaw out of UT and end up at a regional type firm instead, you are likely to be able to network your way into a lateral biglaw move within 1-2 years (assuming market doesn’t tank).

Even if wash u is also the best law school in its region, it places all over the place and its home market (and immediately surrounding markets) does not have nearly the capacity as that of the Texas area. Additionally, I think absolute biglaw/fedclerk placement is a good bit lower.

For these reasons, in my view, the safer bet is UT even with the increased debt. If you do decently, you can biglaw SA, land your firm, then either switch offices to where you want to live within 1-2 years or lateral to a comparable firm where you want to live. If you do really well, you fedclerk from UT and the above becomes even easier. My guess would be that wash you might have slightly better placement power straight out of LS for the regions you want to live, but I don’t think that this outweighs the pros for UT that I articulated above.

Either way, t20 with relatively low debt is nothing to scoff at. Nice job OP.

AdieuCali

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby AdieuCali » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:12 pm

Law_Bound wrote:My total debt load upon graduation:
WashU - 27k
UT - 100k
-3.3/172
I'm wondering if there is some merit to considering a reapply and getting my apps out right as they open.


Both WUSTL and UT are great schools, but I'd be concerned about whether they will help you reach your goals. https://www.lstreports.com/compare/texas/washu/. WUSTL has good biglaw placement (45%), but only sends about 10% of their class to NYC and even fewer to other markets. If your main fear is being stuck in the Midwest, I think attending WUSTL is a huge risk to take even with a full-ride. It's true the UT has better placement in TX, but only about 1/3 of the class gets BigLaw.

Normally, applying at the start of the cycle is preferable, but you've performed mostly in line with your numbers. https://mylsn.info/90dmef/. This is a situation where I don't think retaking would add much benefit. Another 3-4 points doesn't really move the needle. https://mylsn.info/qiv1yc/

October apps might get you into one or two of MVPD, potentially with some $$. There's also a good possibility of getting USC or UCI w/$$$ or UCLA w/$. I think that's a risk worth taking considering your goals/concerns. I would make sure to write Why X's for all schools. As a super-splitter, some admissions offices will YP you even though you might not have better offers. I was a California splitter and got into a few T14s. I didn't think I needed a Why X or visit the campuses of USC or UCLA because I lived near LA, but I got dinged at both schools.

WUSTL will probably give you the same scholly if you reapply, and even if they don't, getting stuck in a region you don't like for your career isn't worth it. Northwestern's ED scholarship application is also probably the right move here. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/admissions/applying/earlydecision.html. Considering your goals, a T13 even at/near sticker might be worth it. You could all but guarantee Biglaw in NYC (barring another Great Recession) from UVA/UM/Duke. IMO paying off $300k debt on a $190k salary > paying off $100k debt on $55k salary, but YMMV.

Law_Bound

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby Law_Bound » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:34 pm

I think my thought process is more in line with what objctnyrhnr had to say. Both options are relatively low debt which ultimately is driving my decision.

I am not particularly tied to the west coast and while i was admitted to UCI, their scholly was pretty paltry. As of now, I think I'll be leaning towards UT (with a possible scholly renegotiation. cant hurt to try). As I ride out these waitlists!

Thanks for the insight!

carsondalywashere

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby carsondalywashere » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:39 pm

I'd ride the waitlists and see what comes up from that, but otherwise reapply next year on the first day apps open with banging "why x's"

AdieuCali

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby AdieuCali » Tue Apr 02, 2019 12:56 pm

Law_Bound wrote:I think my thought process is more in line with what objctnyrhnr had to say. Both options are relatively low debt which ultimately is driving my decision.

I am not particularly tied to the west coast and while i was admitted to UCI, their scholly was pretty paltry. As of now, I think I'll be leaning towards UT (with a possible scholly renegotiation. cant hurt to try). As I ride out these waitlists!

Thanks for the insight!


Totally fair and valid points - UT is a great school. My concern with TX is what happens to the market in 2021 if you get a recession + a dem administration that puts the screws to the energy industry.

You should definitely negotiate with UCI to increase your scholarship. With large schollys from WUSTL and UT, you might get them to meet or beat UT's offer. I think you're right in that you might be able to squeeze a few more bucks out of UT with your WUSTL offer.

Make sure you send LOCI to all your T14 waitlists. UVA always over-enrolls so there's not much W/L movement and Columbia's W/L is a joke, but I personally was accepted off the Penn W/L in June as a splitter (with a worse LSAT/GPA than yours).

Congratulations and good luck with your decision!

olemiss18

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby olemiss18 » Sun Apr 07, 2019 1:42 pm

Definitely try to see if UT can up the offer, but honestly, if NYC or DC is where you want to go, WashU is your best bet (not in the grand scheme of things, but between these two schools). Also, $100k is intense. I'm not saying you won't be able to comfortably pay it off - you will. But $27k looks so much prettier. I'd try to negotiate with UT, and then immediately try to re-negotiate with WashU to get a stipend, and then go to WashU regardless of whether or not they give you a stipend.

Everyone's different though. Go with your gut. You won't be in the wrong regardless.

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Ohiobumpkin

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby Ohiobumpkin » Sun Apr 07, 2019 11:32 pm

Why on Earth did you apply to WashU if you do not want to stay in Midwest? It places in Missouri and Chicago, both squarely in the Midwest Just do UT— at least you will have mobility in the south.

Law_Bound

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Re: WashU ($$$$) vs UT ($$)

Postby Law_Bound » Sun Apr 14, 2019 11:01 am

Ohiobumpkin wrote:Why on Earth did you apply to WashU if you do not want to stay in Midwest? It places in Missouri and Chicago, both squarely in the Midwest Just do UT— at least you will have mobility in the south.



I was given a nice bump by UT through renegotiation all based on my WashU scholarship. So it very much made sense from an application strategy standpoint!



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