Emory vs. SMU vs. Baylor Forum

[evannelson97]

Right now, I am deciding between offers from Emory, SMU, and Baylor. I am interested in corporate transactional law. BigLaw is obviously preferred, but is not necessary. I do not plan on retaking the LSAT. I will be debt-funding most of my costs, but have inheritance money that is probably just enough to cover cost of living. I am obviously trying to make the best investment for my future. I do not have any significant preferences to where I live after law school. My only legal connections are in my home state of Arkansas.

Stats:
LSAT: 161
GPA: 3.94

Offers:
Emory: Cost of tuition for three years would be about $84,000.
SMU: Cost of tuition for three years would be about $72,000. I have also been admitted into the MBA program and could complete the 3-year JD/MBA at SMU for about $82,000. I would lose the opportunity to intern in the summer between my 1L and 2L in the 3-year JD/MBA program.
Baylor: I have received a full-tuition scholarship contingent on being in about the top 75% of the class. I have also been admitted into the MBA program and could complete an MBA for about $12,000 in the 4-year JD/MBA program at Baylor.

All feedback is greatly appreciated.

[cavalier1138]

I do not plan on retaking the LSAT.

Why not?

[objctnyrhnr]

How late did you apply? I feel like you could snag something much better with that GpA if you apply early enough and to the right schools.

These are all bad options and you should retake.

That being said, even if you don’t retake, I think these numbers should result in a better cycle with better schools TBH, unless you applied after they let in all their high gpa splitters.

[evannelson97]

I do not plan on retaking the LSAT.

Why not?

Worked a couple hundred hours for this score with many practice tests (most being below my current score).

[evannelson97]

How late did you apply? I feel like you could snag something much better with that GpA if you apply early enough and to the right schools.

These are all bad options and you should retake.

That being said, even if you don’t retake, I think these numbers should result in a better cycle with better schools TBH, unless you applied after they let in all their high gpa splitters.

All my applications were sent in October, so applying late was not an issue.

[QContinuum]

How late did you apply? I feel like you could snag something much better with that GpA if you apply early enough and to the right schools.

These are all bad options and you should retake.

That being said, even if you don’t retake, I think these numbers should result in a better cycle with better schools TBH, unless you applied after they let in all their high gpa splitters.

All my applications were sent in October, so applying late was not an issue.

What schools did you apply to? Did you apply to Vandy and WUSTL?

With those outcomes at Vandy/WUSTL, you should most definitely not be considering schools outside the T20.

And why are you interested in pursuing an MBA? An MBA won't increase your marketability to law firms.

[cavalier1138]

I do not plan on retaking the LSAT.

Why not?

Worked a couple hundred hours for this score with many practice tests (most being below my current score).

And all you did was churn through practice tests?

Generally, that's not considered a strong study plan, and you're leaving a lot of money/better schools on the table. If you insist on overpaying for school, might as well do Emory. But if you want biglaw to be a real option (or you'd prefer not to burn through your savings), retake.

[evannelson97]

How late did you apply? I feel like you could snag something much better with that GpA if you apply early enough and to the right schools.

These are all bad options and you should retake.

That being said, even if you don’t retake, I think these numbers should result in a better cycle with better schools TBH, unless you applied after they let in all their high gpa splitters.

All my applications were sent in October, so applying late was not an issue.

What schools did you apply to? Did you apply to Vandy and WUSTL?

With those outcomes at Vandy/WUSTL, you should most definitely not be considering schools outside the T20.

And why are you interested in pursuing an MBA? An MBA won't increase your marketability to law firms.

I haven't heard back from Vandy and am on the wait list for WUSTL. The MBA is more for the personal intellectual challenge/fun.

[evannelson97]

I do not plan on retaking the LSAT.

Why not?

Worked a couple hundred hours for this score with many practice tests (most being below my current score).

And all you did was churn through practice tests?

Generally, that's not considered a strong study plan, and you're leaving a lot of money/better schools on the table. If you insist on overpaying for school, might as well do Emory. But if you want biglaw to be a real option (or you'd prefer not to burn through your savings), retake.

I did self study books too!

[objctnyrhnr]

How late did you apply? I feel like you could snag something much better with that GpA if you apply early enough and to the right schools.

These are all bad options and you should retake.

That being said, even if you don’t retake, I think these numbers should result in a better cycle with better schools TBH, unless you applied after they let in all their high gpa splitters.

All my applications were sent in October, so applying late was not an issue.

What schools did you apply to? Did you apply to Vandy and WUSTL?

With those outcomes at Vandy/WUSTL, you should most definitely not be considering schools outside the T20.

And why are you interested in pursuing an MBA? An MBA won't increase your marketability to law firms.

My fellow moderator apparently had the same base reaction. We are just a little bit perplexed about your cycle (notwithstanding the fact that retaking is TCR here).

Is there something you’re not disclosing about your application? Frankly I’m just a tad confused.

[legalese_retard]

Given the scholarship, Baylor is your best option. Your chances at a big law corporate/transactional practice will be better slightly better coming out of Emory or SMU, but you will be graduating from Baylor with far less debt. Doing the JD/MBA program at Baylor would make you a stronger candidate for corporate big law, but you would still need to be top 10-25% to be competitive at most big law shops in Texas. However, the MBA will be a real benefit if you considered going in-house or if you wanted to transition into a corporate role in the future.

[patent_guy]

Given the scholarship, Baylor is your best option. Your chances at a big law corporate/transactional practice will be better slightly better coming out of Emory or SMU, but you will be graduating from Baylor with far less debt. Doing the JD/MBA program at Baylor would make you a stronger candidate for corporate big law, but you would still need to be top 10-25% to be competitive at most big law shops in Texas. However, the MBA will be a real benefit if you considered going in-house or if you wanted to transition into a corporate role in the future.

Why are you only applying to expensive private schools if you don’t have a geographic preference? Unpopular opinion here but why not u of Arkansas and stay in state?

Since you don’t want to be a litigator, don’t go to Baylor. Those numbers are borderline acceptable for SMU if you want to stay in Dallas, but I’m guessing those don’t include cost of attendance figures. In that case, I’d cross it off too. Can’t speak much about Emory, just don’t know enough about it or the GA market.

You really need to retake. Find a good study system and get your score up to the high 160’s. You’re plenty capable based on your gpa. Don’t waste that gpa on Baylor or take out too much debt for SMU or Emory. You say you want to make the best investment for your future, but none of your options are very good and you could have very good options by retaking and waiting a year.

[QContinuum]

Why are you only applying to expensive private schools if you don’t have a geographic preference? Unpopular opinion here but why not u of Arkansas and stay in state?

Almost 40% of UArk's class of '18 struck out of the practice of law. We aren't talking about BigLaw. We're talking about full-time legal employment period, including joining a 2-lawyer SmallLaw personal injury shop.

That is - or should be - a chilling figure. Three years of your life - even assuming free tuition - for a 40% chance of striking out of the practice of law, with a J.D. from a near-bottom T2 as a scarlet letter to nonlegal employers? No thank you.

Contrast that with T1 Baylor, where 85% of the class of '18 landed full-time legal employment. Sure, the plurality outcome by far - 32% of Baylor's grads - is work at a 2-10-lawyer SmallLaw shop. But at least Baylor grads are practicing law. This is perhaps explained by the fact that both schools place locally, but Texas' legal market absolutely dwarfs Arkansas' in sheer size and number of jobs.

I'm not saying OP ought to attend Baylor, but it ought to be clear why UArk shouldn't be considered when someone has Baylor on the table.

[patent_guy]

Why are you only applying to expensive private schools if you don’t have a geographic preference? Unpopular opinion here but why not u of Arkansas and stay in state?

Almost 40% of UArk's class of '18 struck out of the practice of law. We aren't talking about BigLaw. We're talking about full-time legal employment period, including joining a 2-lawyer SmallLaw personal injury shop.

That is - or should be - a chilling figure. Three years of your life - even assuming free tuition - for a 40% chance of striking out of the practice of law, with a J.D. from a near-bottom T2 as a scarlet letter to nonlegal employers? No thank you.

Contrast that with T1 Baylor, where 85% of the class of '18 landed full-time legal employment. Sure, the plurality outcome by far - 32% of Baylor's grads - is work at a 2-10-lawyer SmallLaw shop. But at least Baylor grads are practicing law. This is perhaps explained by the fact that both schools place locally, but Texas' legal market absolutely dwarfs Arkansas' in sheer size and number of jobs.

I'm not saying OP ought to attend Baylor, but it ought to be clear why UArk shouldn't be considered when someone has Baylor on the table.

I just used Arkansas as an example because that’s where OP said they had legal connections and it’s the only law school I’m aware of in Arkansas off the top of my head. I didn’t mean to suggest it would be OP’s best option. It was just a hypothetical.

How about univ of Houston or UGA? Both public (and presumably cheaper) schools in the target markets OP is looking with respectable (for UH, I assume UGA also) employment prospects. Plenty of students there come out with less debt than SMU/Emory and similar or at least good employment prospects. And before you get going, I’m not hopping into the uh/SMU and Houston/Dallas debate, just (again) pointing out that there are other options for someone who refuses to increase their chances of knocking down costs besides only considering unnecessarily expensive private schools.

My only point was that selecting only SMU, Emory, Baylor, vandy as options seems short sighted. For the record, as does not retaking.

[QContinuum]

How about univ of Houston or UGA? Both public (and presumably cheaper) schools in the target markets OP is looking with respectable (for UH, I assume UGA also) employment prospects. Plenty of students there come out with less debt than SMU/Emory and similar or at least good employment prospects. And before you get going, I’m not hopping into the uh/SMU and Houston/Dallas debate, just (again) pointing out that there are other options for someone who refuses to increase their chances of knocking down costs besides only considering unnecessarily expensive private schools.

My only point was that selecting only SMU, Emory, Baylor, vandy as options seems short sighted. For the record, as does not retaking.

In that case we agree. That's why I noted that I'm not suggesting that OP ought to attend Baylor.

[icansortofmath]

Emory. MBAs at the schools you listed don’t add much. (Check their median outcomes upon graduation).

With your scores, even if you don’t improve on LSAT, you should be looking to move up to Vandy or something like that and improve your employment outcomes. Emory/Vandy JD/MBA would also add real value since those MBA programs place well into six figure jobs and can give you strong backups if you don’t get biglaw.

[evannelson97]

Since I've gotten some good feedback, I want to update everyone on where I am in the process. I am not considering SMU and Baylor anymore. Turning down the Baylor offer was difficult, but I felt like an Emory Law degree would pay off in the long term. I did apply to and get a good offer from UH, but was not considering that offer because of the better Baylor offer. I did not apply to UGA or either of the two law schools in Arkansas. I got into the Olin MBA at WUSTL with a pretty solid scholarship offer and am using that to have another review of my law school app. I also used that to land an interview with the Goizueta MBA at Emory, so I am currently waiting on feedback from WUSTL Law and Goizueta.

[icansortofmath]

Jd/mba Emory best. Emory MBAs have great placements for reasons I don’t really know.

I just looked it up. Emory MBA median starting is 130, which is higher than WUSTL’s high (120). An MBA at WUSTL is just a waste of money whereas MBA at Emory gives you decent shot at MBB consulting (not great) and good shot at ibanking and second tier consulting that will pay almost as well as biglaw all in.