UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L Forum

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
Post Reply
uclauscLAW

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 pm

UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by uclauscLAW » Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:45 pm

Hi all, after years of hard work, I got accepted into my dream law school, UCLA. I am really excited! What I am curious about, though, is big law. I know that this is a hot topic because UCLA is not T14. Does anyone have any experience at UCLA's OCI? What were the GPA cutoffs for most firms/what is the UCLA Law median?

Obviously I am really nervous for my first semester/year of law school, as these grades are everything for OCI. How did people generally feel that their first year of law school went? Any advice? Thanks so much!

The Lsat Airbender

Gold
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:28 pm

UCLA sends a little over a third of its class to a big firm or federal clerkship. So you'll want well-above-average grades to have any kind of assurance.

uclauscLAW

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by uclauscLAW » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:21 pm

The Lsat Airbender wrote:UCLA sends a little over a third of its class to a big firm or federal clerkship. So you'll want well-above-average grades to have any kind of assurance.
That makes sense. My general impression, though, is that UCLA has a lot of students going into public interest who aren't really trying to go into big law. Looking at employment statistics, it looks like of everyone who goes to work for a firm, a little over 50% go into big law...or does this statistic not make sense to look at?

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Feb 26, 2019 10:23 pm

uclauscLAW wrote:That makes sense. My general impression, though, is that UCLA has a lot of students going into public interest who aren't really trying to go into big law. Looking at employment statistics, it looks like of everyone who goes to work for a firm, a little over 50% go into big law...or does this statistic not make sense to look at?
That is a very, very dangerous assumption.

If your only goal is biglaw, UCLA is a risky choice. It's less risky than some other schools you could go to, but it's definitely not a safe option.

User avatar
KunAgnis

Bronze
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:41 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by KunAgnis » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:29 pm

uclauscLAW wrote:
The Lsat Airbender wrote:UCLA sends a little over a third of its class to a big firm or federal clerkship. So you'll want well-above-average grades to have any kind of assurance.
That makes sense. My general impression, though, is that UCLA has a lot of students going into public interest who aren't really trying to go into big law. Looking at employment statistics, it looks like of everyone who goes to work for a firm, a little over 50% go into big law...or does this statistic not make sense to look at?
Could be that there are some students who *wanted* to go to a firm but couldn't find placement with a law firm. So you need to be careful when you look at the statistic of students going into public interest. I'm not saying they all failed to enter firms - most probably passionately wanted to do PI work. But yeah, some will not defaulted to it as a result of not getting a firm position.

The others are right and you do need to be aware, but UCLA is a great school in SoCal. Wish you the best of luck, OP! There are some study advice threads on TLS (I forget but I think one may have been actually by someone who attended UCLA and then transferred to HYS) that I think were very helpful to me in my first year. You should scour the old threads and read them if you can - they help you realize the amount of effort and consistent dedication you should put in to get the grades you want.

Edit: Here is the http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=36635 thread I was referring to. It's a great source in terms of general advice on how to do well, and I applied it personal success at another T20. I know this isn't a direct answer to your question, but the only way you can guarantee getting a biglaw position from UCLA is to get good grades.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


uclauscLAW

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by uclauscLAW » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:39 pm

KunAgnis wrote:
uclauscLAW wrote:
The Lsat Airbender wrote:UCLA sends a little over a third of its class to a big firm or federal clerkship. So you'll want well-above-average grades to have any kind of assurance.
That makes sense. My general impression, though, is that UCLA has a lot of students going into public interest who aren't really trying to go into big law. Looking at employment statistics, it looks like of everyone who goes to work for a firm, a little over 50% go into big law...or does this statistic not make sense to look at?
Could be that there are some students who *wanted* to go to a firm but couldn't find placement with a law firm. So you need to be careful when you look at the statistic of students going into public interest. I'm not saying they all failed to enter firms - most probably passionately wanted to do PI work. But yeah, some will not defaulted to it as a result of not getting a firm position.

The others are right and you do need to be aware, but UCLA is a great school in SoCal. Wish you the best of luck, OP! There are some study advice threads on TLS (I forget but I think one may have been actually by someone who attended UCLA and then transferred to HYS) that I think were very helpful to me in my first year. You should scour the old threads and read them if you can - they help you realize the amount of effort and consistent dedication you should put in to get the grades you want.

Edit: Here is the http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... =2&t=36635 thread I was referring to. It's a great source in terms of general advice on how to do well, and I applied it personal success at another T20. I know this isn't a direct answer to your question, but the only way you can guarantee getting a biglaw position from UCLA is to get good grades.
Thank you! I am graduating undergrad with a pretty high GPA from a more elite institution, so I hope I can keep it going. Did you manage to do well following those tips?

User avatar
KunAgnis

Bronze
Posts: 303
Joined: Mon Apr 13, 2015 11:41 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by KunAgnis » Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:48 pm

uclauscLAW wrote:

Thank you! I am graduating undergrad with a pretty high GPA from a more elite institution, so I hope I can keep it going. Did you manage to do well following those tips?
I definitely did well during my first semester. I slipped during my second, but that wasn't related to the advice or not following it. There were external circumstances that I'd rather not disclose that affected my ability to perform.

Wubbles

Bronze
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Wubbles » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:22 am

If you have a high GPA you should probably retake and try to go to Berkeley

The Lsat Airbender

Gold
Posts: 1750
Joined: Wed Jan 30, 2019 7:34 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by The Lsat Airbender » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:26 am

Wubbles wrote:If you have a high GPA you should probably retake and try to go to Berkeley

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


uclauscLAW

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by uclauscLAW » Wed Feb 27, 2019 1:55 am

Wubbles wrote:If you have a high GPA you should probably retake and try to go to Berkeley
I get what you're saying, just not sure I want to take a year off. I spent about a year studying for the LSAT and my score plateau'd for a really long time around the UCLA median. Plus I don't think I can ever look at that damn test again. I'd also be graduating UCLA with no debt which will be nice. Maybe this is me trying to rationalize it to myself--ha ha.

It does seem like, though, that of all the law firms in LA, quite a few of the associates and partners all went to USC/UCLA law. I think if I work hard from the beginning and manage to stay above the median that I can nab a big law position--at least here is hoping... The issue is that I think on TLS a lot of people post who didn't do well in OCI or performed poorly as 1Ls, but then in person people from USC/UCLA always say "oh everyone I know who wanted big law managed to get big law!" "1L is hard but so doable!" Inherent bias on both sides. It seems really difficult to get actual foresight on big law at UCLA without actually being a part of the recruiting process. Anyway, I will be sure to post on here updates as the next few years progress. Any more insight from anyone else is greatly appreciated.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:47 am

uclauscLAW wrote: It seems really difficult to get actual foresight on big law at UCLA without actually being a part of the recruiting process.
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/ucla/

nixy

Gold
Posts: 4446
Joined: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by nixy » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:59 am

I mean, I think you have a reasonable shot at biglaw from UCLA and if you’re not going to have any debt that’s a good deal (though I hope it’s because you got money rather than anyone is paying for you). But keep in mind that the people you talk to from UCLA are the success stories - they’re either people that UCLA has put you in touch with, or people who ended up doing well and who have survivor bias. And people who wanted biglaw but don’t get it don’t necessarily advertise that fact, but embrace whatever they end up with. Again, that doesn’t make it a bad option, just that you’re not talking to people who went to UCLA and didn’t get biglaw, or left law altogether.

uclauscLAW

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by uclauscLAW » Wed Feb 27, 2019 4:50 pm

nixy wrote:I mean, I think you have a reasonable shot at biglaw from UCLA and if you’re not going to have any debt that’s a good deal (though I hope it’s because you got money rather than anyone is paying for you). But keep in mind that the people you talk to from UCLA are the success stories - they’re either people that UCLA has put you in touch with, or people who ended up doing well and who have survivor bias. And people who wanted biglaw but don’t get it don’t necessarily advertise that fact, but embrace whatever they end up with. Again, that doesn’t make it a bad option, just that you’re not talking to people who went to UCLA and didn’t get biglaw, or left law altogether.
Yes, that all makes sense. If anyone who goes to UCLA Law currently or recently graduated has any input that would be great. Really trying to kill this first semester. I want to hit the ground running and frontload a lot of study in the beginning. Does anyone have any other good blog posts/book recs for how to do well 1L?

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


Hakki

New
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Hakki » Wed Feb 27, 2019 5:01 pm

With all due respect, you shouldn't casually assume you'll do better than median, no matter how hard you work. You having a solid undergrad GPA doesn't make any difference.

Unlike undergrad, everything's curved, and unlike undergrad, everyone has a reason to try hard. You won't have a significant portion of your class checked out because they don't care that much... everyone has to care, because otherwise they won't get the employment they want.

I get that the LSAT sucks, but don't delude yourself that you're not taking any risk (or even minimizing it by working hard).

uclauscLAW

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by uclauscLAW » Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:37 pm

Hakki wrote:With all due respect, you shouldn't casually assume you'll do better than median, no matter how hard you work. You having a solid undergrad GPA doesn't make any difference.

Unlike undergrad, everything's curved, and unlike undergrad, everyone has a reason to try hard. You won't have a significant portion of your class checked out because they don't care that much... everyone has to care, because otherwise they won't get the employment they want.

I get that the LSAT sucks, but don't delude yourself that you're not taking any risk (or even minimizing it by working hard).
Not assuming anything at all, that’s exactly why I’m asking for books and tips on how I can best enable myself to succeed—haha. Also, my undergrad was fully curved and it was actually a less generous curve than the law school curve. But that’s neither here nor there. Definitely understand the risk, but it’s basically my only option and I think that even without T-14 level big law placement it’s still a pretty good one. But if anyone has any other tips/UCLA-specific experience would love to hear!

User avatar
Mullens

Silver
Posts: 1138
Joined: Wed Dec 18, 2013 1:34 am

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Mullens » Thu Feb 28, 2019 3:10 am

What happens in 11 months if you get median grades after working as hard as you could at UCLA? You are, quite possibly, forever unable to get a biglaw job. It’s a distinct possibility (and probably the likely outcome). It’ll be a super uphill battle as you compete for jobs with people with the same (or better) grades and work experience.

Same thing at a T14 but another year later? you can still get biglaw and are more attractive to employers.

I took two years off to retake. It was the best decision of my life. I’m now an associate at an elite biglaw firm and graduated (and finished 1L) comfortably in the top 5% of a T14. If I’d gone straight through I don’t think I would have gotten as good of grades nor interviewed as well.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by cavalier1138 » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:16 am

uclauscLAW wrote:Not assuming anything at all, that’s exactly why I’m asking for books and tips on how I can best enable myself to succeed—haha. Also, my undergrad was fully curved and it was actually a less generous curve than the law school curve. But that’s neither here nor there. Definitely understand the risk, but it’s basically my only option and I think that even without T-14 level big law placement it’s still a pretty good one. But if anyone has any other tips/UCLA-specific experience would love to hear!
Ok, but you are assuming. You're assuming that if you take certain steps, you can somewhat guarantee your class placement. That's just not how it works. And UCLA isn't your "only option." You have a lot of other potential options, but you're refusing to entertain them.

As has been repeatedly said, UCLA for free is great. But if you can't articulate a career goal outside of biglaw, UCLA is a risky proposition. For your specific goals, you'd be better off taking time off to live in the real world, retake the LSAT, and set yourself up for the best possible chance at the career you want (or that you might find you don't want after "adulting" for a year or two).

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


Npret

Gold
Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Npret » Thu Feb 28, 2019 8:36 am

What’s your backup option to biglaw? If you don’t have one, you are making a risky choice. Remember that law school grades are based on a single final and that for the most part every other student will be working to get As.

How did you study for the LSAT? Retaking and going to another school is your only option to be as sure as possible you will graduate with a Big Law job.

Just because you’re tired of the exam doesn’t mean you are making a good choice for your goals.

Here’s Berkeleys job placement-
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/berkeley/jobs/

Here’s UCLA as was linked above-
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/ucla/jobs/

There is a 20% difference in graduating with a big law job. You should retake and give yourself the best odds.

Hakki

New
Posts: 24
Joined: Fri Aug 19, 2016 4:44 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Hakki » Thu Feb 28, 2019 11:37 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
uclauscLAW wrote:Not assuming anything at all, that’s exactly why I’m asking for books and tips on how I can best enable myself to succeed—haha. Also, my undergrad was fully curved and it was actually a less generous curve than the law school curve. But that’s neither here nor there. Definitely understand the risk, but it’s basically my only option and I think that even without T-14 level big law placement it’s still a pretty good one. But if anyone has any other tips/UCLA-specific experience would love to hear!
Ok, but you are assuming. You're assuming that if you take certain steps, you can somewhat guarantee your class placement. That's just not how it works. And UCLA isn't your "only option." You have a lot of other potential options, but you're refusing to entertain them.

As has been repeatedly said, UCLA for free is great. But if you can't articulate a career goal outside of biglaw, UCLA is a risky proposition. For your specific goals, you'd be better off taking time off to live in the real world, retake the LSAT, and set yourself up for the best possible chance at the career you want (or that you might find you don't want after "adulting" for a year or two).
^ This.

How well you did on an undergrad curve doesn't matter, regardless of what curve it was. Like the above poster said, UCLA for free is great but inherently risky, and we just want you to know that you can't get rid of or reduce that risk.

uclauscLAW

New
Posts: 7
Joined: Sun Jul 16, 2017 6:56 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by uclauscLAW » Thu Feb 28, 2019 1:36 pm

Definitely understand what everyone is saying/where they’re coming from. I would for sure be happy at a mid-sized firm working in something like entertainment law as well. I’m definitely not big-law or bust, but it is for sure a goal. It seems like everyone is saying that no matter how much work or effort you put into your 1L year that it’s 100% luck. I do find this sorta hard to believe that effort and hard work doesn’t factor whatsoever, but I’m not the one who has gone through law school. So this is a scary realization for sure. Thanks for all the input everyone. I for sure have a lot to think about and consider going forward. Any other input appreciated.

Npret

Gold
Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Npret » Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:17 pm

uclauscLAW wrote:Definitely understand what everyone is saying/where they’re coming from. I would for sure be happy at a mid-sized firm working in something like entertainment law as well. I’m definitely not big-law or bust, but it is for sure a goal. It seems like everyone is saying that no matter how much work or effort you put into your 1L year that it’s 100% luck. I do find this sorta hard to believe that effort and hard work doesn’t factor whatsoever, but I’m not the one who has gone through law school. So this is a scary realization for sure. Thanks for all the input everyone. I for sure have a lot to think about and consider going forward. Any other input appreciated.
No one said it was luck.
No one said work doesn’t matter.
What we said was hard work in law school does not guarantee success. You can’t assume you will be above median.
If big law is your goal then you should go to a school more likely to get you there.
I don’t know how many medium firms doing entertainment law exist in LA but it sounds like a competitive job. There is a bimodal scale of salaries in law generally and I don’t know how many medium firms exist. Something for you to research.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Wubbles

Bronze
Posts: 448
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2018 5:55 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Wubbles » Fri Mar 01, 2019 3:48 am

Yeah, getting midlaw was seemingly just as hard, if not harder, than getting biglaw out of my t14. Not to mention midlaw focused on entertainment law

Npret

Gold
Posts: 1986
Joined: Mon Jan 23, 2017 11:42 am

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Npret » Fri Mar 01, 2019 11:24 am

If you aren’t familiar with the bimodal curve here’s a rather poorly written ATL article that has the most recent graph I can find.
https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/the-mos ... h-the-law/

NALP
https://www.nalp.org/0816research

https://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib

User avatar
Gitaroo_Dude

Silver
Posts: 548
Joined: Fri Mar 04, 2016 10:06 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by Gitaroo_Dude » Tue Mar 05, 2019 11:14 pm

I'm a 2L at UCLA who got biglaw. If you have a free ride here I'd ask yourself how important biglaw is to you. You won't be in much debt so there's less necessity for you to end up in biglaw. What makes you think you want to end up in that job?

Roughly 45% of the class gets biglaw. You'll need to be in the Top 33% of the class to have a comfortable shot at landing it. After that it becomes a crapshoot. You can PM me for details on our OCI, relative GPA cutoffs and whatnot, etc.

If you're biglaw or bust (which you probably shouldn't be unless you have a really good reason for wanting biglaw) UCLA might not be the best option. If you want to work in California after graduation with a good shot at biglaw but comfortable with other options I think UCLA makes a lot of sense. You need to ask yourself what you want out of your legal career and which spots you'd be happy ending up in. As others have said, midlaw with an entertainment focus is harder to land than generic biglaw. There are only a relatively handful of those jobs and they're extremely coveted by student at a variety of law schools.

reg7

New
Posts: 3
Joined: Sun Apr 14, 2019 5:35 pm

Re: UCLA Law OCI/BigLaw/1L

Post by reg7 » Wed Jul 24, 2019 7:51 pm

Gitaroo_Dude wrote:I'm a 2L at UCLA who got biglaw. If you have a free ride here I'd ask yourself how important biglaw is to you. You won't be in much debt so there's less necessity for you to end up in biglaw. What makes you think you want to end up in that job?

Roughly 45% of the class gets biglaw. You'll need to be in the Top 33% of the class to have a comfortable shot at landing it. After that it becomes a crapshoot. You can PM me for details on our OCI, relative GPA cutoffs and whatnot, etc.

If you're biglaw or bust (which you probably shouldn't be unless you have a really good reason for wanting biglaw) UCLA might not be the best option. If you want to work in California after graduation with a good shot at biglaw but comfortable with other options I think UCLA makes a lot of sense. You need to ask yourself what you want out of your legal career and which spots you'd be happy ending up in. As others have said, midlaw with an entertainment focus is harder to land than generic biglaw. There are only a relatively handful of those jobs and they're extremely coveted by student at a variety of law schools.

I'm so sorry, not trying to hijack the thread, but I'm an incoming 1L at UCLA who turned down NYU because for me, CA law in general > biglaw at this point. I haven't completely eliminated the possibility of trying for biglaw though and was wondering if you would mind PMing me those details on OCI, relative GPA cutuffs, etc. you mentioned? I'm new on here so TLS won't let me send new PMs until I'm more active, otherwise I would've contacted you directly!

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Choosing a Law School”