general thoughts on t6 ish Forum

[thankunext]

hey everyone,

I wanted to know if there are general impressions/thoughts on the t6 + penn. e.g. I've heard columbia described as cutthroat, but that was also from a someone who graduated 5 years ago..

[QContinuum]

Not sure what the purpose of this question is, but I'll bite. The T6 are not particularly cutthroat. In fact, the most cutthroat law schools are lower-ranked schools (outside the T13/T20) where people know it's a dog-eat-dog scramble to do well enough to transfer up (1L) or land a decent job post-graduation (2L/3L). T13 students know that a good job is all but assured, so are generally pretty friendly and low-key, especially in 2L and 3L once folks have BigLaw locked down. I have had good friends across the T6 and - pretty uniformly - folks have reported zero difficulty getting class notes or old exams or outlines or things like that. Of course there are always a few competitive gunners, and if you're at, say, Harvard and you're gunning for SCOTUS, sure, you'll feel the pressure and things might get intense with your fellow gunners. But if you're at the T6 aiming for a generically good BigLaw or PI outcome, there is no need to fear.

[cavalier1138]

Not sure what the purpose of this question is

This confuses me, too. Aside from Chicago mostly being filled with weirdos and NYU trying to compete with Berkeley for most progressive campus, these schools are pretty similar. In terms of the "competitiveness," Q is 100% right that these schools tend to be the least cutthroat, because all the prestige markers that make or break careers aren't at issue for most students. The curve is gentler, you don't need to get Law Review to get biglaw, etc.

[Mercat]

Yale: Smartest 200 law students of any given year. Really bright people, special place.
Harvard: Class waitlisted at Yale. Also very bright peops, but didn't have the softs for Yale. Prestige-oriented people.
Stanford: Class waitlisted at Yale. Basically like HLS, but smaller.
Chicago: Obsessed with "rigor" and "intellect". They do have some good philosophers on faculty.
Columbia: Just like Chicago, but bigger, less cerebral, and more of a Biglaw mill.
NYU: Just like Columbia and Chicago, but more progressive. Students slightly weaker than above schools.
Penn: This does not belong here.

[cavalier1138]

Yale: Smartest 200 law students of any given year. Really bright people, special place.
Harvard: Class waitlisted at Yale. Also very bright peops, but didn't have the softs for Yale. Prestige-oriented people.
Stanford: Class waitlisted at Yale. Basically like HLS, but smaller.
Chicago: Obsessed with "rigor" and "intellect". They do have some good philosophers on faculty.
Columbia: Just like Chicago, but bigger, less cerebral, and more of a Biglaw mill.
NYU: Just like Columbia and Chicago, but more progressive. Students slightly weaker than above schools.
Penn: This does not belong here.

See, this is why I hate threads like this.

[Npret]

hey everyone,

I wanted to know if there are general impressions/thoughts on the t6 + penn. e.g. I've heard columbia described as cutthroat, but that was also from a someone who graduated 5 years ago..

Most of the people at these schools will either be naturally gifted or academic overachievers or a combination of these. Most of these people aren’t going to suddenly become super chill just because they are in law school.

That doesn’t mean they are cut throat or won’t help other students or be supportive of their classmates.

[Npret]

Yale: Smartest 200 law students of any given year. Really bright people, special place.
Harvard: Class waitlisted at Yale. Also very bright peops, but didn't have the softs for Yale. Prestige-oriented people.
Stanford: Class waitlisted at Yale. Basically like HLS, but smaller.
Chicago: Obsessed with "rigor" and "intellect". They do have some good philosophers on faculty.
Columbia: Just like Chicago, but bigger, less cerebral, and more of a Biglaw mill.
NYU: Just like Columbia and Chicago, but more progressive. Students slightly weaker than above schools.
Penn: This does not belong here.

See, this is why I hate threads like this.

Same. Adds nothing.

[UVA2B]

Yale: Smartest 200 law students of any given year. Really bright people, special place.
Harvard: Class waitlisted at Yale. Also very bright peops, but didn't have the softs for Yale. Prestige-oriented people.
Stanford: Class waitlisted at Yale. Basically like HLS, but smaller.
Chicago: Obsessed with "rigor" and "intellect". They do have some good philosophers on faculty.
Columbia: Just like Chicago, but bigger, less cerebral, and more of a Biglaw mill.
NYU: Just like Columbia and Chicago, but more progressive. Students slightly weaker than above schools.
Penn: This does not belong here.

See, this is why I hate threads like this.

^

[QContinuum]

Most of the people at these schools will either be naturally gifted or academic overachievers or a combination of these. Most of these people aren’t going to suddenly become super chill just because they are in law school.

That doesn’t mean they are cut throat or won’t help other students or be supportive of their classmates.

Two points in response: One, actually a good amount of T6 students do actually chill out in 2L and 3L once they have BigLaw locked down. I wouldn't say a majority, but certainly a respectable minority. Two, even putting point one aside, folks are mostly competitive with themselves. Folks work hard to be the best version of themselves, not to outdo their classmates. T6 students don't generally think, "look, if I help my classmates, that might hurt my own chances of getting an A." There is not really any desire to try to hold one's classmates back.

[Npret]

Most of the people at these schools will either be naturally gifted or academic overachievers or a combination of these. Most of these people aren’t going to suddenly become super chill just because they are in law school.

That doesn’t mean they are cut throat or won’t help other students or be supportive of their classmates.

Two points in response: One, actually a good amount of T6 students do actually chill out in 2L and 3L once they have BigLaw locked down. I wouldn't say a majority, but certainly a respectable minority. Two, even putting point one aside, folks are mostly competitive with themselves. Folks work hard to be the best version of themselves, not to outdo their classmates. T6 students don't generally think, "look, if I help my classmates, that might hurt my own chances of getting an A." There is not really any desire to try to hold one's classmates back.

I agree that people chill out when their future seems set. Of course some people still want to be editor of law review, earn prestigious clerkships and other status that they value. That drive doesn’t entirely disappear.

As I said, people will help each other out and be supportive classmates. If I’m cynical i would say you can rely on helpful classmates because they know it’s the smartest policy for their own future. Most people are naturally helpful in my experience regardless of motivation.

[Wild Card]

I'd say that the law students everywhere are terrible, so go to the best school you can get into or to the school that gives you the most money by far.

I thought my classmates at NYU were obnoxious and unpleasant, but I heard from several Columbia grads that there are very many assholes there.

I imagine that Chicago is similar to NYU. You might as well escape to Stanford and CA to chill out, or hie thee to Yale, where everybody is actually prestigious, so it doesn't matter if everybody's a douche.

[QContinuum]

I'd say that the law students everywhere are terrible, so go to the best school you can get into or to the school that gives you the most money by far.

I thought my classmates at NYU were obnoxious and unpleasant, but I heard from several Columbia grads that there are very many assholes there.

It's all about who you hang out with. NYU has a well over 400-student J.D. class each year = 1200+ total J.D. students (not even counting LL.M.s). I find it impossible to believe that all 1200+ J.D. students are "obnoxious and unpleasant." Certainly it's true that there will be a number of folks that you (using "you" in the generic sense) might not get along well with, and a (smaller) number of folks who're objectively unpleasant. But it should be relatively easy to find a small group of like-minded compatriots to hang out with.

I imagine that Chicago is similar to NYU. You might as well escape to Stanford and CA to chill out, or hie thee to Yale, where everybody is actually prestigious, so it doesn't matter if everybody's a douche.

Stanford and Yale are magical places, but trust me, their magic isn't quite strong enough to assure that you'd (again "you" in the generic sense) like all of your classmates.

There are valid reasons to attend Yale/Stanford over CCN. The alleged "obnoxious and unpleasant" nature of CCN students isn't one of those reasons.

[Mercat]

Yale: Smartest 200 law students of any given year. Really bright people, special place.
Harvard: Class waitlisted at Yale. Also very bright peops, but didn't have the softs for Yale. Prestige-oriented people.
Stanford: Class waitlisted at Yale. Basically like HLS, but smaller.
Chicago: Obsessed with "rigor" and "intellect". They do have some good philosophers on faculty.
Columbia: Just like Chicago, but bigger, less cerebral, and more of a Biglaw mill.
NYU: Just like Columbia and Chicago, but more progressive. Students slightly weaker than above schools.
Penn: This does not belong here.

See, this is why I hate threads like this.

^

Obviously it's useless. But it's what OP was asking for.

[thankunext]

appreciate the responses! was mostly concerned about potential cutthroat-ness.

[eck456]

I'd say that the law students everywhere are terrible, so go to the best school you can get into or to the school that gives you the most money by far.

I thought my classmates at NYU were obnoxious and unpleasant, but I heard from several Columbia grads that there are very many assholes there.

It's all about who you hang out with. NYU has a well over 400-student J.D. class each year = 1200+ total J.D. students (not even counting LL.M.s). I find it impossible to believe that all 1200+ J.D. students are "obnoxious and unpleasant." Certainly it's true that there will be a number of folks that you (using "you" in the generic sense) might not get along well with, and a (smaller) number of folks who're objectively unpleasant. But it should be relatively easy to find a small group of like-minded compatriots to hang out with.

I imagine that Chicago is similar to NYU. You might as well escape to Stanford and CA to chill out, or hie thee to Yale, where everybody is actually prestigious, so it doesn't matter if everybody's a douche.

Stanford and Yale are magical places, but trust me, their magic isn't quite strong enough to assure that you'd (again "you" in the generic sense) like all of your classmates.

There are valid reasons to attend Yale/Stanford over CCN. The alleged "obnoxious and unpleasant" nature of CCN students isn't one of those reasons.

I v much agree with this - in a big school you have room to find your people. So whether or not you like everyone, there’s room to find your crowd. I actually hated Stanford when I visited bc it’s so small that if you don’t have something in common with a relatively small group of people you’ll be kind of stuck for three years. I know that’s a silly point in some ways, but one thing I really like about H is that it’s so big that there’s something or someone or a friend group for everyone. I get that can feel overwhelming for some people and you don’t get that “automatic family” feeling I’ve heard Stanford people talk about, but I really like the reality that at H there will be people who you have literally nothing in common with and they’ll find their group, but there’s 500 other people in your year alone so you’ll find yours too.-@/9 the lack of a real grading curve just really does seriously decrease tension/ cut throat ness for the vast majority of people. While a few people will be assholes about their quest for the DS, there are enough Hs to go around that in general everyone is really kind and supportive, willing to share notes, etc even people who are playing the prestige game for clerkships and law review and stuff