Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

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Mantrain

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Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:47 am

I would like to read what might be some of the impact of me attending an online type distance learning law school. I am currently a doctor of chiropractic and I always wanted to study law. I do not want to retire as a chiropractor -- the profession is too limited an in order to make a lot of money I need to push care I Am not comfortable with "long-term corrective care." I also support my family and I prefer to be able to do an independent study program through a registered correspondence school here in San Diego. (actually the school is located elsewhere in CA but that is not relevant.

My question is, with respect to the bar/baby bar, is not the material, the material, no matter what school I go to? Contracts is contracts, whether I attend Boalt Hall (sp) or Abe Lincoln? and when I sit down to take that bar, it is just me, my brain and the bar. I get that some top law schools would bring some big-name professors, but would they bring secret material to the lectures for passing the bar? These subjects on the bar have been around for decades and the information needed to be competent has been around circulating just as long? Is there any other reason why I would want to go to a diff, accred school? You see, the school I chose is only about $15k total for 4 years. So why would I want to spend more and go to a traditional if I am going to be in business for myself and get my own clients (immigration law in San Diego)?

I have come to this understanding that the baby bar could be a good thing. It will get me ready earlier for what it is like to take the bar and that the lower pass rates for non-aba schools are a reflection of the individuals going to these schools, and not the schools themselves.

Am I incorrect? Should I really get my ass into an accredited law school if I Am a middle-aged career changer who is fully expectant to be self-employed? Do better law schools have access to proprietary information that will increase my chances of being successful in the bar exam?

Thank you!

dixiecup

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby dixiecup » Mon Aug 06, 2018 11:57 am

You can learn the law and pass the bar if you do the work (you could do that on your own, without going to any school). Afterwads, you can be a very successful lawyer in certain areas (such as personal injury, if you hustle and people refer injured people to you). However, you probably won't get a job at a serious law firm because they will look down on your school.

nixy

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby nixy » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:00 pm

Do you want actually to get a job as a lawyer after you pass the bar? That’s why it matters what school you attend, not your chances at passing the bar (though it’s also true that the online non-accredited schools have terrible bar passage rates. Admittedly that’s likely more a function of accepting everyone regardless of academic ability than poor teaching, but still off-putting.)

Mantrain

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 12:13 pm

To the last response, I fully anticipate to be self-employed. I have been self-employed for 15 years so that is what I know. Could never work for someone else. Now, the caveat is an experience. I would need to learn immigration law somewhere. But I do have a family member who does immigration law so I think that is where I will get my practical experience from.

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby nixy » Mon Aug 06, 2018 1:07 pm

Well, I think it’s a terrible terrible idea to go to a non-accredited school, because you never know what you might want to do down the line that only having a job-accredited degree will preclude you from doing. And I think such schools tend to prey on students who don’t have any other options. And their bar passage rates in California are pretty troubling.

But if you are certain you will never be looking for someone else to hire you I suppose it’s your dime.

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby objctnyrhnr » Mon Aug 06, 2018 2:17 pm

Why am I the first responder to raise the possibility that this, at least, might be a flame?

Some of the rationale re the bar and Abe Lincoln, etc., are a bit cringeworthy.

Mantrain

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:31 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:Why am I the first responder to raise the possibility that this, at least, might be a flame?

Some of the rationale re the bar and Abe Lincoln, etc., are a bit cringeworthy.


What is a flame?

DerKatze

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby DerKatze » Mon Aug 06, 2018 3:41 pm

Mantrain wrote:
objctnyrhnr wrote:Why am I the first responder to raise the possibility that this, at least, might be a flame?

Some of the rationale re the bar and Abe Lincoln, etc., are a bit cringeworthy.


What is a flame?

A flame is a post that is seemingly outlandish but is actually a joke. Suggesting you are a flame is akin to suggesting you are just making the whole story up. If you are being serious, then you can safely ignore him.

Mantrain

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:14 pm

Seriously I think the idea of having to count on some big law school charging me tens of thousands of for the privilege to study at their institution is cringeworthy. The greatest lawyer in our nation's history did it on his own. And that is what I asked, what does a big name law school or regular law school which charges the same really add to the value of the experience when it is up to each individual to crack the books and pass the bar?

More I think about this, the more I like the idea of doing it on my own. One thing I can say for sure after being in the real world, no one asks what school you went to, except college kids. You get your license and make your mark in the world, or not. And really successful people create their own opportunities - but that license is everything.

SFSpartan

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby SFSpartan » Mon Aug 06, 2018 4:34 pm

Mantrain wrote:Seriously I think the idea of having to count on some big law school charging me tens of thousands of for the privilege to study at their institution is cringeworthy. The greatest lawyer in our nation's history did it on his own. And that is what I asked, what does a big name law school or regular law school which charges the same really add to the value of the experience when it is up to each individual to crack the books and pass the bar?

More I think about this, the more I like the idea of doing it on my own. One thing I can say for sure after being in the real world, no one asks what school you went to, except college kids. You get your license and make your mark in the world, or not. And really successful people create their own opportunities - but that license is everything.


The whole Abe Lincoln shtick makes me think this is a flame. On the off chance that it's not, you're missing the fact that a few things have changed in the last 170 years. Namely, it is no longer common for lawyers to pass the bar by reading the law. While I'm sure this system was useful when there were only about 20 law schools in the United States, this is no longer the case.

As to the specific question in the post above, the numbers sort of speak for themselves. While it is technically possible to pass the bar by reading the law or graduating from an unaccredited school, bar passage rates for graduates of unacreddited schools hovered between ~10% and ~20% over the last decade (and is generally closer to 10% than 20%), while students that read the law generally pass at about a 10% rate. Folks from correspondence law schools due a little better, but their pass rate generally doesn't get above 25%. Contrast this with California's Tier 1 law schools, whose students generally have at least a 60% shot at passing, and I think it's pretty obvious that those schools are adding value.

As well, law school is really one big game, where a better school buys you flexibility to change your mind about what you want, try new things, etc. These schools also provide something of a cushion, as law school doesn't really teach you how to practice law. So you're going to basically be a malpractice machine for a couple years until you learn what you're doing. Going to a good law school can help you get a job at a law firm where you can learn to practice law and (hopefully) avoid committing malpractice many times over.

Mantrain

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:03 pm

What is it about the law school T1/T2 value that engenders a higher pass rate? I Think it is that they only take the brightest or hardest working students, and the rest go to NON-ABA shools and by the nature of the student they are not passing so well. Really, what is it about the schools that get their rates higher? I will tell you what it is: They make sure they are accepting the brightest candidates. So they are not relying on their own institution, but rather they are relying on the smartest/hardest working students,

Do the T1/2's have access to sacred texts or sacred lectures that find no other institution does?

Let's take Contract LAW. This is governed by common law and UCC, right? The Cal Bar is going to test on this subject, in light of the UCC And common law? Now how many bright individuals have written instructional materials about this subject that ALL law students have access to, not just the ones that went to T1/T2? You can download Contracts on Audible and it goes through everything that is on the bar. Add that with a bar passage course, then what?

I am curious, too, do malpractice carriers give new law grads big discounts for going to a T1 school? So a new law grad from Cal Western pays more than a new law grad from Boalt Hall? Please show me that. People always would tell me as a chiropractor I can break someone's neck pretty easily or cause a stroke. But if that is the case, why is my malpractice insurance only $1500/year?


edit: I add a caveat to all of this, and that has to do with employment. If you are a person that is completely dependent on getting a job, then yes, by all means, go to the best law school. But for someone that is intent on always being self-employed -- big-name law school seems like a ripoff to me and has added huge amounts of student loan debt to our national debt situation. I personally refuse to play into that system.

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby objctnyrhnr » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:47 pm

SFSpartan wrote:
Mantrain wrote:Seriously I think the idea of having to count on some big law school charging me tens of thousands of for the privilege to study at their institution is cringeworthy. The greatest lawyer in our nation's history did it on his own. And that is what I asked, what does a big name law school or regular law school which charges the same really add to the value of the experience when it is up to each individual to crack the books and pass the bar?

More I think about this, the more I like the idea of doing it on my own. One thing I can say for sure after being in the real world, no one asks what school you went to, except college kids. You get your license and make your mark in the world, or not. And really successful people create their own opportunities - but that license is everything.


The whole Abe Lincoln shtick makes me think this is a flame. On the off chance that it's not, you're missing the fact that a few things have changed in the last 170 years. Namely, it is no longer common for lawyers to pass the bar by reading the law. While I'm sure this system was useful when there were only about 20 law schools in the United States, this is no longer the case.

As to the specific question in the post above, the numbers sort of speak for themselves. While it is technically possible to pass the bar by reading the law or graduating from an unaccredited school, bar passage rates for graduates of unacreddited schools hovered between ~10% and ~20% over the last decade (and is generally closer to 10% than 20%), while students that read the law generally pass at about a 10% rate. Folks from correspondence law schools due a little better, but their pass rate generally doesn't get above 25%. Contrast this with California's Tier 1 law schools, whose students generally have at least a 60% shot at passing, and I think it's pretty obvious that those schools are adding value.

As well, law school is really one big game, where a better school buys you flexibility to change your mind about what you want, try new things, etc. These schools also provide something of a cushion, as law school doesn't really teach you how to practice law. So you're going to basically be a malpractice machine for a couple years until you learn what you're doing. Going to a good law school can help you get a job at a law firm where you can learn to practice law and (hopefully) avoid committing malpractice many times over.


Finally—somebody agrees with me about this possibly being a flame.

Assuming not a flame, OP is clearly conflating the notion of passing the bar with several other important notions including, but not limited to: actually being able to have a legit law career, not wasting time/money, not getting resume thrown in the garbage, attracting clients, justifying a billing rate, being able to get one’s foot in the door, and overall not making a horrible decision.

So yeah op. Any idiot can pass the bar by just taking a barbri course, assuming they study as hard as barbri suggests. (Note that the term “any idiot” may have been slight hyperbole), but this is still a horrible decision.

Why don’t you spend some time googling “is law school a good idea” and see what you come back with

SFSpartan

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby SFSpartan » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:47 pm

Mantrain wrote:What is it about the law school T1/T2 value that engenders a higher pass rate? I Think it is that they only take the brightest or hardest working students, and the rest go to NON-ABA shools and by the nature of the student they are not passing so well. Really, what is it about the schools that get their rates higher? I will tell you what it is: They make sure they are accepting the brightest candidates. So they are not relying on their own institution, but rather they are relying on the smartest/hardest working students,

Do the T1/2's have access to sacred texts or sacred lectures that find no other institution does?

Let's take Contract LAW. This is governed by common law and UCC, right? The Cal Bar is going to test on this subject, in light of the UCC And common law? Now how many bright individuals have written instructional materials about this subject that ALL law students have access to, not just the ones that went to T1/T2? You can download Contracts on Audible and it goes through everything that is on the bar. Add that with a bar passage course, then what?

I am curious, too, do malpractice carriers give new law grads big discounts for going to a T1 school? So a new law grad from Cal Western pays more than a new law grad from Boalt Hall? Please show me that. People always would tell me as a chiropractor I can break someone's neck pretty easily or cause a stroke. But if that is the case, why is my malpractice insurance only $1500/year?


edit: I add a caveat to all of this, and that has to do with employment. If you are a person that is completely dependent on getting a job, then yes, by all means, go to the best law school. But for someone that is intent on always being self-employed -- big-name law school seems like a ripoff to me and has added huge amounts of student loan debt to our national debt situation. I personally refuse to play into that system.


You and Synapse2018 should really get together. If you two refuse to "play into that system", as you say, by all means go for it.

Your post is plagued by flawed logic, so I'm not going to get into most of it (there's also a bunch of other posters that have gotten into this with 0Ls before, so I'll refer you to other threads rather than going on for several paragraphs about why you are wrong).

I'm sorry if there was something in my previous post that made it seem like I was alluding to the cost of malpractice insurance. The point I was making is that bar passage gives you the ability to be sued for malpractice and not much else. If you hang a shingle, the chances of you being sued for malpractice are much higher than if you, work at a large or midsize firm. That said, and to take the bait on your point re: malpractice insurance cost - the data actually does show that the per lawyer cost of malpractice insurance varies with firm size. Solos pay the most and large firms pay the least. So, a grad from Cal Western, who will likely work for a 1-5 attorney firm if they even have a job when they graduate will likely pay more for malpractice insurance than a firm will pay for your average Boalt grad, where about 1/2 of students get biglaw.

SFSpartan

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby SFSpartan » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:49 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:
SFSpartan wrote:
Mantrain wrote:Seriously I think the idea of having to count on some big law school charging me tens of thousands of for the privilege to study at their institution is cringeworthy. The greatest lawyer in our nation's history did it on his own. And that is what I asked, what does a big name law school or regular law school which charges the same really add to the value of the experience when it is up to each individual to crack the books and pass the bar?

More I think about this, the more I like the idea of doing it on my own. One thing I can say for sure after being in the real world, no one asks what school you went to, except college kids. You get your license and make your mark in the world, or not. And really successful people create their own opportunities - but that license is everything.


The whole Abe Lincoln shtick makes me think this is a flame. On the off chance that it's not, you're missing the fact that a few things have changed in the last 170 years. Namely, it is no longer common for lawyers to pass the bar by reading the law. While I'm sure this system was useful when there were only about 20 law schools in the United States, this is no longer the case.

As to the specific question in the post above, the numbers sort of speak for themselves. While it is technically possible to pass the bar by reading the law or graduating from an unaccredited school, bar passage rates for graduates of unacreddited schools hovered between ~10% and ~20% over the last decade (and is generally closer to 10% than 20%), while students that read the law generally pass at about a 10% rate. Folks from correspondence law schools due a little better, but their pass rate generally doesn't get above 25%. Contrast this with California's Tier 1 law schools, whose students generally have at least a 60% shot at passing, and I think it's pretty obvious that those schools are adding value.

As well, law school is really one big game, where a better school buys you flexibility to change your mind about what you want, try new things, etc. These schools also provide something of a cushion, as law school doesn't really teach you how to practice law. So you're going to basically be a malpractice machine for a couple years until you learn what you're doing. Going to a good law school can help you get a job at a law firm where you can learn to practice law and (hopefully) avoid committing malpractice many times over.


Finally—somebody agrees with me about this possibly being a flame.

Assuming not a flame, OP is clearly conflating the notion of passing the bar with several other important notions including, but not limited to: actually being able to have a legit law career, not wasting time/money, not getting resume thrown in the garbage, attracting clients, justifying a billing rate, being able to get one’s foot in the door, and overall not making a horrible decision.

So yeah op. Any idiot can pass the bar by just taking a barbri course, assuming they study as hard as barbri suggests. (Note that the term “any idiot” may have been slight hyperbole), but this is still a horrible decision.

Why don’t you spend some time googling “is law school a good idea” and see what you come back with


This. All of this. As well, OP doesn't even need to leave this site to find out why this plan is a bad idea. He/she can feel free to peruse other TLS threads, incl. the "Seriously reconsider" thread that's currently active.

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hoos89

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby hoos89 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 5:55 pm

On the off chance this is not a flame: I'm curious how much you think you're going to make as a solo practitioner?

Mantrain

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 6:11 pm

firstly about this flame issue, how do we get past that? IF you are in law school, what evidence do you have that I am a "flame."

I think I have been straightforward about who I am. My cousin makes about $500k in solo doing immigration. He first worked for a small firm. HE is bilingual. I am mostly bilingual. This is the USA. sky is the limit in solo.

Am I a flame bc I am questioning your norms and values about law school? 5 yrs after law school, it pretty much won't matter. The license is everything.

I am a chiropractor in San Diego that wants a change a careers and thinks I should have never gone to chiro college. I Should have studied law when I got my BA.

Dictionary

Enter a word, e.g. "pie"
flame
flām/Submit
noun
1.
a hot glowing body of ignited gas that is generated by something on fire.
"the flame of a candle"
synonyms: fire, blaze, conflagration, inferno
"a sheet of flames"
2.
COMPUTINGinformal
a vitriolic or abusive message posted on the Internet or sent by email, typically in quick response to another message.
"flames about inexperienced users posting stupid messages"
verb
1.
burn and give off flames.
"a great fire flamed in an open fireplace"
synonyms: burn, blaze, be ablaze, be alight, be on fire, be in flames, be aflame
"logs crackled and flamed"
2.
COMPUTINGinformal
direct a vitriolic or abusive message at (someone) by posting on the Internet or sending an email.
"your opinions and mine are probably different, but please don't flame me"

objctnyrhnr

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby objctnyrhnr » Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:15 pm

Mantrain wrote:firstly about this flame issue, how do we get past that? IF you are in law school, what evidence do you have that I am a "flame."

I think I have been straightforward about who I am. My cousin makes about $500k in solo doing immigration. He first worked for a small firm. HE is bilingual. I am mostly bilingual. This is the USA. sky is the limit in solo.

Am I a flame bc I am questioning your norms and values about law school? 5 yrs after law school, it pretty much won't matter. The license is everything.

I am a chiropractor in San Diego that wants a change a careers and thinks I should have never gone to chiro college. I Should have studied law when I got my BA.

Dictionary

Enter a word, e.g. "pie"
flame
flām/Submit
noun
1.
a hot glowing body of ignited gas that is generated by something on fire.
"the flame of a candle"
synonyms: fire, blaze, conflagration, inferno
"a sheet of flames"
2.
COMPUTINGinformal
a vitriolic or abusive message posted on the Internet or sent by email, typically in quick response to another message.
"flames about inexperienced users posting stupid messages"
verb
1.
burn and give off flames.
"a great fire flamed in an open fireplace"
synonyms: burn, blaze, be ablaze, be alight, be on fire, be in flames, be aflame
"logs crackled and flamed"
2.
COMPUTINGinformal
direct a vitriolic or abusive message at (someone) by posting on the Internet or sending an email.
"your opinions and mine are probably different, but please don't flame me"


I am 5 years out of law school and, I promise you, it matters. I’ve seen more applications than I can count from non aba approved law schools get laughed at then thrown out. The laugh is generally “wow can’t believe anybody would be so dumb as to go here when there are perfectly terrible tttts and ttts to waste one’s money at.” In other words, there are hundreds of terrible schools which are aba approved and would probably get one’s resume tossed, depending on the entity. The concept of taking it one step further to go to an even shittier school is just beyond comprehension.

This is kind of a hilarious flame, if it is one, which is kind of the whole point. I also credit pretending not to know what a flame is to the point of getting dictionary definition of flame. So bravo.

OP, maybe you aren’t a flame. People do, however, think you are because the sentiments that you’re floating, here, are so utterly naive, uninformed, and just plain dumb that it’s bound to rile up TLS...which, I suppose, is the point of a flame.

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby dixiecup » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:19 pm

objctnyrhnr wrote:I am 5 years out of law school and, I promise you, it matters. I’ve seen more applications than I can count from non aba approved law schools get laughed at then thrown out. The laugh is generally “wow can’t believe anybody would be so dumb as to go here when there are perfectly terrible tttts and ttts to waste one’s money at.” In other words, there are hundreds of terrible schools which are aba approved and would probably get one’s resume tossed, depending on the entity. The concept of taking it one step further to go to an even shittier school is just beyond comprehension.

This is kind of a hilarious flame, if it is one, which is kind of the whole point. I also credit pretending not to know what a flame is to the point of getting dictionary definition of flame. So bravo.

OP, maybe you aren’t a flame. People do, however, think you are because the sentiments that you’re floating, here, are so utterly naive, uninformed, and just plain dumb that it’s bound to rile up TLS...which, I suppose, is the point of a flame.


They want to start their own immigration practice using their friend's proven $500k/year model. OP, you can do everything you want from a non-accredited law school, assuming you plan to work in California. But if you're going to make $500k, why not pay the extra $100k for an ABA law school?

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 8:54 pm

No one has offered me why I need to go to a ABA school. I have read a lot of vitriol, ad hominem attacks; condescending statements, but why should I go to an ABA school? I am not looking to be an employee. I will never be someone else's employee -- except maybe to work for the PDs office and I have family high up in the LA County PD office that could much help me get hired when I get my license. If people laugh at what school I went to, then it is their problem. No one answered my question about what material ABA has access to regarding the curriculum that I cannot get on my own or in correspondence school. My dad went to correspondence school way back in the early 1970s and he always flew solo as a criminal atty. My brother went to a crappy ABA school and got high up in a public job. My dad was not a bad lawyer and no one laughed at him bc he did correspondence school. Did it take him a few times for the bar? Yeah, but I intend to have better success.

Really I think what this is, attacking my ideas bc you need to protect your choices for spending bank bank bank to go to a Tier school. If you are going to work on wall street, or some big name firm, by all means, go ahead. But I also know someone who was a chief administrator for a CA govt agency and she got her JD and past the bar first time (from Abraham Lincoln SoL and she got hired right off the cuff from a big insurance law firm. No one laughed at her degree from an non-aba. You pass the bar, that is what is more important than anything else and that is what I am aiming for.

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby dixiecup » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:00 pm

That's all true Mantrain. California solo work, or a government job that you'll get through a friend, are doable with a non ABA school. You sound much better prepared for legal practice than the majority of students going to ABA schools. I think it'll work out for you.

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby nixy » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:19 pm

I promise you, there are lots and lots of employers who won't look at non-accredited schools (and am pretty sure California PD offices wouldn't be very impressed). And I have definitely seen lawyers laugh at other lawyers for having gone to non-accredited schools. It really isn't simply about passing the bar (and both your dad and your head of agency friend would have graduated and looked for jobs in a completely different economic climate, when prestige didn't matter nearly as much as it matters now because the profession wasn't yet so oversaturated).

But if you do intend never to be hired by anyone else then that is all probably moot. Some clients will actually care (I would never hire a lawyer who went to a non-accredited school), but many probably won't know the difference. So as long as you're sure you're never going to change your mind about what you want to do, go for it - it's your $15k and time.

The whole point of this website is to help people not spend bank going to a school they don't need for their goals. Many many people here get scholarships from Tier 1 (including at the top) schools, and many many of them want to work for law firms, so need to have prestigious names on their diplomas. So that's why people say you need to go to an ABA school. And frankly, I think for probably 98% of people an ABA school is the only thing that will fit their goals. Non-accredited is worth it in only very very very limited circumstances.

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:32 pm

"But if you do intend never to be hired by anyone else then that is all probably moot. Some clients will actually care (I would never hire a lawyer who went to a non-accredited school), but many probably won't know the difference. So as long as you're sure you're never going to change your mind about what you want to do, go for it - it's your $15k and time. "

We all have that preference who we will hire for a job. I am likely going to do immigration law and my clients from south of the border will not care where I went to law school. This notion of "laughing at where you went to law school" is a completely immature concept. I have a lot of experience in the law field, not as a lawyer, but tangentially in the work I do. At most courts, and my business often ends up in an administrative law court where my wife acts as my hearing rep, there is a camaraderie on BOTH SIDES and a certain egalitarianism exists in most sectors of law. You wouldn't hire someone who went to a non-aba bc you need to justify your decision to spend booko bucks and that is all. Here is how it is: the scales of justice rest on equality of law -- a law license speaks volumes -- that is at the end of the day what matters. Now yeah if you cannot be self-employed -- if you are always going to be dependent on a paycheck and needing a boss, go to the most expensive name brand law school you can. But as far as laughing at what school you went to -- not the real world and I have been around a half a century and I have a sense of what is important in the real world. When I first graduated from college, before I made the mistake of going to chiropractic college instead of law school and when I was considering law, I remember how important that concept of a brand name law school was -- bc at that time I though in terms of being dependent on what people thought about me and where my paycheck would come from. But in any industry, people gain a reputation based on individual character, and not on the character of their alma mater.

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4LTsPointingNorth

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby 4LTsPointingNorth » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:49 pm

Mantrain wrote:"But if you do intend never to be hired by anyone else then that is all probably moot. Some clients will actually care (I would never hire a lawyer who went to a non-accredited school), but many probably won't know the difference. So as long as you're sure you're never going to change your mind about what you want to do, go for it - it's your $15k and time. "

We all have that preference who we will hire for a job. I am likely going to do immigration law and my clients from south of the border will not care where I went to law school. This notion of "laughing at where you went to law school" is a completely immature concept. I have a lot of experience in the law field, not as a lawyer, but tangentially in the work I do. At most courts, and my business often ends up in an administrative law court where my wife acts as my hearing rep, there is a camaraderie on BOTH SIDES and a certain egalitarianism exists in most sectors of law. You wouldn't hire someone who went to a non-aba bc you need to justify your decision to spend booko bucks and that is all. Here is how it is: the scales of justice rest on equality of law -- a law license speaks volumes -- that is at the end of the day what matters. Now yeah if you cannot be self-employed -- if you are always going to be dependent on a paycheck and needing a boss, go to the most expensive name brand law school you can. But as far as laughing at what school you went to -- not the real world and I have been around a half a century and I have a sense of what is important in the real world. When I first graduated from college, before I made the mistake of going to chiropractic college instead of law school and when I was considering law, I remember how important that concept of a brand name law school was -- bc at that time I though in terms of being dependent on what people thought about me and where my paycheck would come from. But in any industry, people gain a reputation based on individual character, and not on the character of their alma mater.


You voluntarily posted on a website named "TopLawSchools.com" and are now battling with every poster who has chimed in with advice that lives up to the website's billing.

They don't control your life, you do. They don't control where you choose to go to school, you do. This is a personal decision that you seem to have already made and are of course more than welcome to make for yourself.

This all leads to my questions here: what sort of validation or clarification are you seeking by posting here? Do you want to be talked out of it? Or is this a cathartic way to safely rage against anonymous online posters that mirror the naysayers in your own personal life? Is there some other reason?

The simple truth is that attending a non-ABA law school presents a much higher degree of risk than attending an ABA accredited school. If you are supremely confident in your ability to pass the bar exam and become a competent practicing attorney without receiving an accredited legal education, and if you can save significant amounts of money doing so, then that may be a smart personal decision. High risk, high reward, so the thinking goes. But this is all still a deeply personal decision that is up to you to make. Which leads to my final question: what more were you seeking to learn or to hear from this board that you haven't gotten yet?

Mantrain

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby Mantrain » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:54 pm

oh, excuse me I am in the wrong forum... sorry.

olemiss18

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Re: Decision to enroll on NON ABA School

Postby olemiss18 » Mon Aug 06, 2018 9:56 pm

Mantrain wrote:To the last response, I fully anticipate to be self-employed. I have been self-employed for 15 years so that is what I know. Could never work for someone else. Now, the caveat is an experience. I would need to learn immigration law somewhere. But I do have a family member who does immigration law so I think that is where I will get my practical experience from.


Could never work for someone else? That's... unsettling. Maybe you should reevaluate that juncture. Being a team player to some degree is part of life.



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