Is GW at $$ worth it? Forum

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:19 pm

.
Last edited by radon5 on Sat Dec 30, 2017 10:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:23 pm

GW will not give you the geographic flexibility you want. What's the lower ranked school you're considering?

(FYI: "midlaw" is just as hard to get as biglaw, but local prosecution is doable from any regional school.)

User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by UVA2B » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:26 pm

GW on a $120k discount is a decidedly meh option for your goals, especially since those goals are outside DC. GW gives you a shot at biglaw (generously ~40% shot), mid law in a major city is impossible to accurately gauge because the positions available are way less and way more unpredictable in hiring and compensation, and it really depends what you mean by wanting to be a prosecutor. If you're good with a non-competitive DA gig (and not in a major city because those are pretty darn competitive as well), then it's not like GW won't get you to your goals. But you have a very realistic shot of not getting paid work that will service the still ~$180k you'll need to come up with that isn't based on tuition discount.

I would seriously reconsider going into that much debt for an option like GW, especially if your goals are outside of DC.

radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:31 pm

UVA2B wrote:GW on a $120k discount is a decidedly meh option for your goals, especially since those goals are outside DC. GW gives you a shot at biglaw (generously ~40% shot), mid law in a major city is impossible to accurately gauge because the positions available are way less and way more unpredictable in hiring and compensation, and it really depends what you mean by wanting to be a prosecutor. If you're good with a non-competitive DA gig (and not in a major city because those are pretty darn competitive as well), then it's not like GW won't get you to your goals. But you have a very realistic shot of not getting paid work that will service the still ~$180k you'll need to come up with that isn't based on tuition discount.

I would seriously reconsider going into that much debt for an option like GW, especially if your goals are outside of DC.
Thank you. Would it make a difference if I was okay being limited to just the east coast? Like DC, Philly, NY? I was thinking prosecutor like a non competitive route where I would get good experience.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:35 pm

radon5 wrote:Thank you. Would it make a difference if I was okay being limited to just the east coast? Like DC, Philly, NY? I was thinking prosecutor like a non competitive route where I would get good experience.
Does that mean you're thinking of being a prosecutor as a road to bigger and better things? If so, what are those things?

And I highly doubt that prosecution offices in major metropolitan areas like DC, Philly, and NY are "non-competitive".

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by UVA2B » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:37 pm

radon5 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:GW on a $120k discount is a decidedly meh option for your goals, especially since those goals are outside DC. GW gives you a shot at biglaw (generously ~40% shot), mid law in a major city is impossible to accurately gauge because the positions available are way less and way more unpredictable in hiring and compensation, and it really depends what you mean by wanting to be a prosecutor. If you're good with a non-competitive DA gig (and not in a major city because those are pretty darn competitive as well), then it's not like GW won't get you to your goals. But you have a very realistic shot of not getting paid work that will service the still ~$180k you'll need to come up with that isn't based on tuition discount.

I would seriously reconsider going into that much debt for an option like GW, especially if your goals are outside of DC.
Thank you. Would it make a difference if I was okay being limited to just the east coast? Like DC, Philly, NY? I was thinking prosecutor like a non competitive route where I would get good experience.
DC actual won't allow you to be a non-competitive DA because everything in DC is federal. So if you were gunning for a DA job in the suburbs of DC (either MD or VA), then you could possibly gun hard from day one, do all the internships, externships, etc. at a DA office that might presumably hire you out of GW. This won't really work for Philly or NYC though. And all of the metropolitan areas are generally more competitive for those types of jobs, but with the right amount of work ethic and a broad definition of being "in a major city," it's possible. But now you're talking about being in $180k debt, making $50k/year, and praying that PSLF lives to fight another day. That's pretty risky financially, but only you can decide whether that's a route you'd be comfortable going down (I can tell you I absolutely wouldn't want to do it, but others could disagree).

What is the regional you were looking to attend before the GW discount offer?

radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:40 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
radon5 wrote:Thank you. Would it make a difference if I was okay being limited to just the east coast? Like DC, Philly, NY? I was thinking prosecutor like a non competitive route where I would get good experience.
Does that mean you're thinking of being a prosecutor as a road to bigger and better things? If so, what are those things?

And I highly doubt that prosecution offices in major metropolitan areas like DC, Philly, and NY are "non-competitive".
I was thinking a prosecutor route could give good experience to move into a law firm as a litigator eventually. If I'd have to get that preliminary experience while I'm living and working outside of major cities, that'd be fine with me. But I'm also thinking if things work out and I do well enough, GW might set me up for big law in a city on the east coast. Maybe I'm crazy

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:43 pm

radon5 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
radon5 wrote:Thank you. Would it make a difference if I was okay being limited to just the east coast? Like DC, Philly, NY? I was thinking prosecutor like a non competitive route where I would get good experience.
Does that mean you're thinking of being a prosecutor as a road to bigger and better things? If so, what are those things?

And I highly doubt that prosecution offices in major metropolitan areas like DC, Philly, and NY are "non-competitive".
I was thinking a prosecutor route could give good experience to move into a law firm as a litigator eventually. If I'd have to get that preliminary experience while I'm living and working outside of major cities, that'd be fine with me. But I'm also thinking if things work out and I do well enough, GW might set me up for big law in a city on the east coast. Maybe I'm crazy
If your "move into a law firm" is referring to a biglaw firm, that would be a very rare outcome.

It sounds like your ultimate goal is, in fact, biglaw-or-bust, and that's just not feasible with your current options.

radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:43 pm

UVA2B wrote:
radon5 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:GW on a $120k discount is a decidedly meh option for your goals, especially since those goals are outside DC. GW gives you a shot at biglaw (generously ~40% shot), mid law in a major city is impossible to accurately gauge because the positions available are way less and way more unpredictable in hiring and compensation, and it really depends what you mean by wanting to be a prosecutor. If you're good with a non-competitive DA gig (and not in a major city because those are pretty darn competitive as well), then it's not like GW won't get you to your goals. But you have a very realistic shot of not getting paid work that will service the still ~$180k you'll need to come up with that isn't based on tuition discount.

I would seriously reconsider going into that much debt for an option like GW, especially if your goals are outside of DC.
Thank you. Would it make a difference if I was okay being limited to just the east coast? Like DC, Philly, NY? I was thinking prosecutor like a non competitive route where I would get good experience.
DC actual won't allow you to be a non-competitive DA because everything in DC is federal. So if you were gunning for a DA job in the suburbs of DC (either MD or VA), then you could possibly gun hard from day one, do all the internships, externships, etc. at a DA office that might presumably hire you out of GW. This won't really work for Philly or NYC though. And all of the metropolitan areas are generally more competitive for those types of jobs, but with the right amount of work ethic and a broad definition of being "in a major city," it's possible. But now you're talking about being in $180k debt, making $50k/year, and praying that PSLF lives to fight another day. That's pretty risky financially, but only you can decide whether that's a route you'd be comfortable going down (I can tell you I absolutely wouldn't want to do it, but others could disagree).

What is the regional you were looking to attend before the GW discount offer?
.
Last edited by radon5 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:30 am, edited 1 time in total.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:45 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
radon5 wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:
radon5 wrote:Thank you. Would it make a difference if I was okay being limited to just the east coast? Like DC, Philly, NY? I was thinking prosecutor like a non competitive route where I would get good experience.
Does that mean you're thinking of being a prosecutor as a road to bigger and better things? If so, what are those things?

And I highly doubt that prosecution offices in major metropolitan areas like DC, Philly, and NY are "non-competitive".
I was thinking a prosecutor route could give good experience to move into a law firm as a litigator eventually. If I'd have to get that preliminary experience while I'm living and working outside of major cities, that'd be fine with me. But I'm also thinking if things work out and I do well enough, GW might set me up for big law in a city on the east coast. Maybe I'm crazy
If your "move into a law firm" is referring to a biglaw firm, that would be a very rare outcome.

It sounds like your ultimate goal is, in fact, biglaw-or-bust, and that's just not feasible with your current options.
I'm pretty sure there are firms out there that aren't "big law" that hire former prosecutors to do litigation work. Am I wrong about that?

User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by UVA2B » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:46 pm

radon5 wrote:Illinois. And where are you getting the 180K? I'm seeing it come out closer to 100-120...still not small
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw/

You have to remember COL, origination fees, interest rate that accrues as soon as loans are disbursed, and tuition raises that are all but guaranteed.

radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at 40K/year worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 2:51 pm

UVA2B wrote:
radon5 wrote:Illinois. And where are you getting the 180K? I'm seeing it come out closer to 100-120...still not small
https://www.lstreports.com/schools/gw/

You have to remember COL, origination fees, interest rate that accrues as soon as loans are disbursed, and tuition raises that are all but guaranteed.
Got it. Thank you

User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by UVA2B » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:04 pm

I think I'm starting to see your angle here, and tbh I don't think it's a good one. If you go to GW and get a desirable biglaw job, great, you win. If you can't get that, a merely decently high paying job in a midlaw firm would be ok, so this decision is looking even safer. But I know it's competitive, so I'd be ok starting out in a DA job in a big city or its suburbs, which they're tell me is easier to get if I work hard. I can cut my teeth there until I can lateral into a higher paying firm job. This GW $120k discount is looking juicier and juicier!

Forgive the bit of above snark, but you seem to pretty clearly want to be in a firm that pays well. GW has the potential to get you into that job, but has a much better chance of never putting you in one. A $180k gamble on it is just very risky. If you're comfortable with that risk, go ahead.

Now let's talk about this Illinois offer. How much are you getting from them?

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:17 pm

UVA2B wrote:I think I'm starting to see your angle here, and tbh I don't think it's a good one. If you go to GW and get a desirable biglaw job, great, you win. If you can't get that, a merely decently high paying job in a midlaw firm would be ok, so this decision is looking even safer. But I know it's competitive, so I'd be ok starting out in a DA job in a big city or its suburbs, which they're tell me is easier to get if I work hard. I can cut my teeth there until I can lateral into a higher paying firm job. This GW $120k discount is looking juicier and juicier!

Forgive the bit of above snark, but you seem to pretty clearly want to be in a firm that pays well. GW has the potential to get you into that job, but has a much better chance of never putting you in one. A $180k gamble on it is just very risky. If you're comfortable with that risk, go ahead.

Now let's talk about this Illinois offer. How much are you getting from them?
.
Last edited by radon5 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by UVA2B » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:21 pm

radon5 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:I think I'm starting to see your angle here, and tbh I don't think it's a good one. If you go to GW and get a desirable biglaw job, great, you win. If you can't get that, a merely decently high paying job in a midlaw firm would be ok, so this decision is looking even safer. But I know it's competitive, so I'd be ok starting out in a DA job in a big city or its suburbs, which they're tell me is easier to get if I work hard. I can cut my teeth there until I can lateral into a higher paying firm job. This GW $120k discount is looking juicier and juicier!

Forgive the bit of above snark, but you seem to pretty clearly want to be in a firm that pays well. GW has the potential to get you into that job, but has a much better chance of never putting you in one. A $180k gamble on it is just very risky. If you're comfortable with that risk, go ahead.

Now let's talk about this Illinois offer. How much are you getting from them?
Haha thank you. I have a full scholly there
A full ride at UIUC and wanting Chicago is a decidedly better choice than going to GW on $120k discount. Stop considering GW and either register for a retake or deposit at UIUC with the same caveats as GW about likelihood of getting a well-paying firm job.

radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:35 pm

.
Last edited by radon5 on Sun Nov 05, 2017 12:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by UVA2B » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:40 pm

radon5 wrote:Just to be clear, when you're talking about a well-paying firm job, are you talking right out of school or ever in my life? If I go to Illinois is it unlikely I'll ever hit say 150K a year?
it's not never in your life, and it's not guaranteed you won't reach any particular limit. You might get Biglaw in Chicago, make $160k out of the gate that goes up and you'll ideally be making six figures the rest of your life. You might end up at a smaller firm where your pay starts more modestly, but goes up where one day you're making at/near six figures. DA jobs do increase pay marginally, but it's tougher to break into six figure types of jobs.

When you're looking out past the first job it's even harder to predict what your career arc will be. Your pay, assuming you're successful as an attorney, will go up. By how much is up for debate, and can't really be predicted outside of anecdotal evidence and generic surveys that show the average comp. for attorneys in a given market. I don't want to be overly gloomy about your prospects out of Illinois, because so long as you get a job as an attorney, you can improve whatever your starting salary is with the right amount of luck, work ethic, and legal skill. But there isn't as much predictive value in looking at that as a 0L, and projecting what your personal eventual salary will be is shooting in the dark.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


radon5

New
Posts: 37
Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2017 7:52 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by radon5 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 3:51 pm

UVA2B wrote:
radon5 wrote:Just to be clear, when you're talking about a well-paying firm job, are you talking right out of school or ever in my life? If I go to Illinois is it unlikely I'll ever hit say 150K a year?
it's not never in your life, and it's not guaranteed you won't reach any particular limit. You might get Biglaw in Chicago, make $160k out of the gate that goes up and you'll ideally be making six figures the rest of your life. You might end up at a smaller firm where your pay starts more modestly, but goes up where one day you're making at/near six figures. DA jobs do increase pay marginally, but it's tougher to break into six figure types of jobs.

When you're looking out past the first job it's even harder to predict what your career arc will be. Your pay, assuming you're successful as an attorney, will go up. By how much is up for debate, and can't really be predicted outside of anecdotal evidence and generic surveys that show the average comp. for attorneys in a given market. I don't want to be overly gloomy about your prospects out of Illinois, because so long as you get a job as an attorney, you can improve whatever your starting salary is with the right amount of luck, work ethic, and legal skill. But there isn't as much predictive value in looking at that as a 0L, and projecting what your personal eventual salary will be is shooting in the dark.
Thank you. That's seems good. I feel confident

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by cavalier1138 » Tue Jul 11, 2017 4:12 pm

radon5 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
radon5 wrote:Just to be clear, when you're talking about a well-paying firm job, are you talking right out of school or ever in my life? If I go to Illinois is it unlikely I'll ever hit say 150K a year?
it's not never in your life, and it's not guaranteed you won't reach any particular limit. You might get Biglaw in Chicago, make $160k out of the gate that goes up and you'll ideally be making six figures the rest of your life. You might end up at a smaller firm where your pay starts more modestly, but goes up where one day you're making at/near six figures. DA jobs do increase pay marginally, but it's tougher to break into six figure types of jobs.

When you're looking out past the first job it's even harder to predict what your career arc will be. Your pay, assuming you're successful as an attorney, will go up. By how much is up for debate, and can't really be predicted outside of anecdotal evidence and generic surveys that show the average comp. for attorneys in a given market. I don't want to be overly gloomy about your prospects out of Illinois, because so long as you get a job as an attorney, you can improve whatever your starting salary is with the right amount of luck, work ethic, and legal skill. But there isn't as much predictive value in looking at that as a 0L, and projecting what your personal eventual salary will be is shooting in the dark.
Thank you. That's seems good. I feel confident
Just out of curiosity, what part of that made you feel confident? And what are you confident that you'll be able to do?

By all means, go to law school for free. It's not a terrible outcome. But you really seem to have goals that are totally discordant with the schools you're considering.

User avatar
ManoftheHour

Gold
Posts: 3486
Joined: Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:03 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by ManoftheHour » Tue Jul 11, 2017 5:48 pm

No it's not worth it. Your desire to be in Chicago over DC AND for a much cheaper price makes Illinois a slam dunk here assuming you don't want to sit out so that you can be eligible for the LSAT again.

User avatar
existentialcrisis

Silver
Posts: 712
Joined: Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:23 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by existentialcrisis » Tue Jul 11, 2017 6:26 pm

If you want biglaw, then the real answer is retake. But, between these 2 schools, Illinois with the full ride is obviously the right answer. Even without looking at cost, I don't even think GW gives you a better chance at landing biglaw.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Slippin' Jimmy

Silver
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:56 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by Slippin' Jimmy » Tue Jul 11, 2017 7:31 pm

ManoftheHour wrote:No it's not worth it. Your desire to be in Chicago over DC AND for a much cheaper price makes Illinois a slam dunk here assuming you don't want to sit out so that you can be eligible for the LSAT again.
OP is already eligible, LSAC got rid of the 3 takes policy. They could take in September if they want to.

latetothis

Bronze
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by latetothis » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:40 pm

.
Last edited by latetothis on Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by cavalier1138 » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:42 pm

Not-OP-who-doesn't-want-to-make-a-new-thread: What does "PI in DC" entail for you?

latetothis

Bronze
Posts: 131
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:38 am

Re: Is GW at $$ worth it?

Post by latetothis » Wed Jul 12, 2017 2:51 pm

.
Last edited by latetothis on Wed Jul 12, 2017 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

Now there's a charge.
Just kidding ... it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Choosing a Law School”