Mitchell Hamline Executive JD and Weekend Program Forum

[johninsask]

Hey guys,
Does anyone plan to attend MH's Exec JD program (or the weekend program)? I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and am contemplating the EJD program, in addition to St. Thomas (which would allow me to fly home every weekend with a minimum of time loss). Would be curious to hear thoughts and feelings about the program.

[grades??]

Dont do this.

[xiao_long]

Hey guys,
Does anyone plan to attend MH's Exec JD program (or the weekend program)? I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and am contemplating the EJD program, in addition to St. Thomas (which would allow me to fly home every weekend with a minimum of time loss). Would be curious to hear thoughts and feelings about the program.

Why do you want the JD? If you plan on practicing law in Canada, I'm not sure how an American JD would help you. If you're doing it solely for career advancement, perhaps an executive MBA would be better for that goal. Just getting a law degree without the desire to actually practice law isn't a very good idea, given the time and money involved. Even if you do want to practice law, a JD from MH won't put you in a very good position to land legal jobs, even in its home market, let alone anywhere else.

[johninsask]

Hey guys,
Does anyone plan to attend MH's Exec JD program (or the weekend program)? I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and am contemplating the EJD program, in addition to St. Thomas (which would allow me to fly home every weekend with a minimum of time loss). Would be curious to hear thoughts and feelings about the program.

Why do you want the JD? If you plan on practicing law in Canada, I'm not sure how an American JD would help you. If you're doing it solely for career advancement, perhaps an executive MBA would be better for that goal. Just getting a law degree without the desire to actually practice law isn't a very good idea, given the time and money involved. Even if you do want to practice law, a JD from MH won't put you in a very good position to land legal jobs, even in its home market, let alone anywhere else.

Hmm. I think you're assuming way too much about my post (i.e. I did not discuss motives for getting a JD, just the program).

That said, you do raise an interesting question about practicing law in Canada with a US degree. American and Canadian statutes are both based on common law. The NCA only requires that, in addition to having an ABA-approved JD, that you write challenge exams or complete classes in the core competencies (property, torts, criminal and business) in addition to fulfilling their other stated requirements. You could, in theory, take a semester or two as a visiting student at a Canadian LS and complete the core competencies there as a 2L or 3L. In that case, you would be eligible to article anywhere in Canada (assuming you meet the provincial or territorial requirements) as well as to sit for any of the US bars. There are lawyers that make livings with a foot in both countries.

Finally, you seem skeptical about MH. How come?

[screwtapeletters]

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/williammitchell/

https://www.lstreports.com/schools/hamline/

[barkschool]

They are not good schools.

No schools have "executive JDs" that are worth paying for.

Edit. There are a few part time programs that may be okay, but you have to have a job in that market already for it to make sense.

[stego]

Hmm. I think you're assuming way too much about my post (i.e. I did not discuss motives for getting a JD, just the program).

People can't give you very meaningful advice if you don't discuss your personal situation in life and goals/motives for getting a JD

Finally, you seem skeptical about MH. How come?

scooped by screwtapeletters but it's not a very good school (i.e., it has bad employment statistics)

i guess if you're rich enough that you can fly home to Canada every weekend and don't need a job after you finish then YOLO?

[Greenteachurro]

Hmm. I think you're assuming way too much about my post (i.e. I did not discuss motives for getting a JD, just the program).

People can't give you very meaningful advice if you don't discuss your personal situation in life and goals/motives for getting a JD

Finally, you seem skeptical about MH. How come?

scooped by screwtapeletters but it's not a very good school (i.e., it has bad employment statistics)

i guess if you're rich enough that you can fly home to Canada every weekend and don't need a job after you finish then YOLO?

I know a little bit about the school and its not uncommon for people from canada and other surrounding states to fly in to do the program

[johninsask]

Hmm. I think you're assuming way too much about my post (i.e. I did not discuss motives for getting a JD, just the program).

People can't give you very meaningful advice if you don't discuss your personal situation in life and goals/motives for getting a JD

Finally, you seem skeptical about MH. How come?

scooped by screwtapeletters but it's not a very good school (i.e., it has bad employment statistics)

i guess if you're rich enough that you can fly home to Canada every weekend and don't need a job after you finish then YOLO?

I know a little bit about the school and its not uncommon for people from canada and other surrounding states to fly in to do the program

Thank you for the reply.
If it matters, I'm not interested in big law or cushy jobs. I want to help provide affordable legal access to the poor and to abused women, many of whom are underserved. It's possible I might relocate my family to the states, but we might also go to Vancouver or stay in Saskatchewan. It really depends where I can have the most impact and where we feel like settling when this is all done. At this point, I am looking to make sure we have options while also minimizing the amount of time I spend away from my family while pursuing a JD, which is why MH and St Thomas are options. That said, I want to express my gratitude to everyone who has responded.

[cavalier1138]

Thank you for the reply.
If it matters, I'm not interested in big law or cushy jobs. I want to help provide affordable legal access to the poor and to abused women, many of whom are underserved. It's possible I might relocate my family to the states, but we might also go to Vancouver or stay in Saskatchewan. It really depends where I can have the most impact and where we feel like settling when this is all done. At this point, I am looking to make sure we have options while also minimizing the amount of time I spend away from my family while pursuing a JD, which is why MH and St Thomas are options. That said, I want to express my gratitude to everyone who has responded.

Then find a part-time JD program at a real law school. These scams do not produce practicing lawyers.

[johninsask]

Thank you for the reply.
If it matters, I'm not interested in big law or cushy jobs. I want to help provide affordable legal access to the poor and to abused women, many of whom are underserved. It's possible I might relocate my family to the states, but we might also go to Vancouver or stay in Saskatchewan. It really depends where I can have the most impact and where we feel like settling when this is all done. At this point, I am looking to make sure we have options while also minimizing the amount of time I spend away from my family while pursuing a JD, which is why MH and St Thomas are options. That said, I want to express my gratitude to everyone who has responded.

Then find a part-time JD program at a real law school. These scams do not produce practicing lawyers.

Would you please defend that argument? Where's your evidence that a) those above referenced schools are scams and b) they are not real law schools? Not trying to be unfriendly here, but I am highly skeptical of unsupported arguments. As well, I should add that I am collecting information about these schools, not endorsing them.

[Greenteachurro]

.

[guynourmin]

Thank you for the reply.
If it matters, I'm not interested in big law or cushy jobs. I want to help provide affordable legal access to the poor and to abused women, many of whom are underserved. It's possible I might relocate my family to the states, but we might also go to Vancouver or stay in Saskatchewan. It really depends where I can have the most impact and where we feel like settling when this is all done. At this point, I am looking to make sure we have options while also minimizing the amount of time I spend away from my family while pursuing a JD, which is why MH and St Thomas are options. That said, I want to express my gratitude to everyone who has responded.

Then find a part-time JD program at a real law school. These scams do not produce practicing lawyers.

Would you please defend that argument? Where's your evidence that a) those above referenced schools are scams and b) they are not real law schools? Not trying to be unfriendly here, but I am highly skeptical of unsupported arguments. As well, I should add that I am collecting information about these schools, not endorsing them.

only 58% of the graduating class last year were employed in full time, long term, JD-required positions 10 months after graduation.

[UVA2B]

Thank you for the reply.
If it matters, I'm not interested in big law or cushy jobs. I want to help provide affordable legal access to the poor and to abused women, many of whom are underserved. It's possible I might relocate my family to the states, but we might also go to Vancouver or stay in Saskatchewan. It really depends where I can have the most impact and where we feel like settling when this is all done. At this point, I am looking to make sure we have options while also minimizing the amount of time I spend away from my family while pursuing a JD, which is why MH and St Thomas are options. That said, I want to express my gratitude to everyone who has responded.

Then find a part-time JD program at a real law school. These scams do not produce practicing lawyers.

Would you please defend that argument? Where's your evidence that a) those above referenced schools are scams and b) they are not real law schools? Not trying to be unfriendly here, but I am highly skeptical of unsupported arguments. As well, I should add that I am collecting information about these schools, not endorsing them.

Did you by chance look at the links in the post above? That is a snapshot of the employment prospects at this university, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture. A huge portion of every graduating class is not employed as an attorney in a full-time position following graduation. And it's still very expensive, which you can see in the above links as well. That's why people are saying the school is a scam. Graduates of MH can take the bar and practice as an attorney in the U.S., but far too many of their graduates never realize that goal. And that's not even getting into you potentially returning to Canada for practice, because many (could be all, not totally sure on that) of the territories require you to graduate from a Canadian law school and do an article to be admitted to the bar. You would definitely want to look into that before investing in an American law school if you want to ultimately return to Canada.

You say you're not endorsing these schools, which is technically true, but numerous people in this thread have given you ample reason to answer the question of why you should reconsider going to the school. If you want to practice law in the U.S., go to a better school in the region you want to practice (so ideally you should attend the University of Minnesota if that region interests you). If you want to practice in Canada, you need to be looking at Canadian law schools such as Osgoode, Toronto, and McGill.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think haus is doing the MH program? These aren't great programs for someone who wants to get a traditional legal job (which includes representing the underserved indigent). They're better for people who have an established life/career for which getting a JD would be an advantage, more than people who want to change professions. For the latter you'd be much better off attending a traditional school where you have the opportunity to get more traditional legal experience (and make
more connections) along the way.

I also don't get why doing this US program makes sense when you'd have to pay to do more on top of it to be able to practice in Canada. Why not just go to a Canadian law school? They're much cheaper than the US, too, AFAIK.

[cavalier1138]

Thank you for the reply.
If it matters, I'm not interested in big law or cushy jobs. I want to help provide affordable legal access to the poor and to abused women, many of whom are underserved. It's possible I might relocate my family to the states, but we might also go to Vancouver or stay in Saskatchewan. It really depends where I can have the most impact and where we feel like settling when this is all done. At this point, I am looking to make sure we have options while also minimizing the amount of time I spend away from my family while pursuing a JD, which is why MH and St Thomas are options. That said, I want to express my gratitude to everyone who has responded.

Then find a part-time JD program at a real law school. These scams do not produce practicing lawyers.

Would you please defend that argument? Where's your evidence that a) those above referenced schools are scams and b) they are not real law schools? Not trying to be unfriendly here, but I am highly skeptical of unsupported arguments. As well, I should add that I am collecting information about these schools, not endorsing them.

As already mentioned, you've been presented with the relevant information. The fact that you haven't done any research into these programs yourself is kind of mind-boggling, especially when you want to take the high ground against "unsupported arguments".

[johninsask]

Thank you for the reply.
If it matters, I'm not interested in big law or cushy jobs. I want to help provide affordable legal access to the poor and to abused women, many of whom are underserved. It's possible I might relocate my family to the states, but we might also go to Vancouver or stay in Saskatchewan. It really depends where I can have the most impact and where we feel like settling when this is all done. At this point, I am looking to make sure we have options while also minimizing the amount of time I spend away from my family while pursuing a JD, which is why MH and St Thomas are options. That said, I want to express my gratitude to everyone who has responded.

Then find a part-time JD program at a real law school. These scams do not produce practicing lawyers.

Would you please defend that argument? Where's your evidence that a) those above referenced schools are scams and b) they are not real law schools? Not trying to be unfriendly here, but I am highly skeptical of unsupported arguments. As well, I should add that I am collecting information about these schools, not endorsing them.

Did you by chance look at the links in the post above? That is a snapshot of the employment prospects at this university, and it doesn't paint a pretty picture. A huge portion of every graduating class is not employed as an attorney in a full-time position following graduation. And it's still very expensive, which you can see in the above links as well. That's why people are saying the school is a scam. Graduates of MH can take the bar and practice as an attorney in the U.S., but far too many of their graduates never realize that goal. And that's not even getting into you potentially returning to Canada for practice, because many (could be all, not totally sure on that) of the territories require you to graduate from a Canadian law school and do an article to be admitted to the bar. You would definitely want to look into that before investing in an American law school if you want to ultimately return to Canada.

You say you're not endorsing these schools, which is technically true, but numerous people in this thread have given you ample reason to answer the question of why you should reconsider going to the school. If you want to practice law in the U.S., go to a better school in the region you want to practice (so ideally you should attend the University of Minnesota if that region interests you). If you want to practice in Canada, you need to be looking at Canadian law schools such as Osgoode, Toronto, and McGill.

Okay, I see what you and Greenteachurro are getting at. You present compelling responses, particularly with regard to the local reputation of the schools in question. The quality of the school is what I am interested in learning about. So far no one has defended the schools. Your responses have helped.

I've researched practicing in Canada with a US JD (see above for that). It can be done, though it requires either taking challenge exams after graduation or taking the core competencies as a visiting student during 2l or 3l. As for Osgoode, Toronto and McGill: my guess is that you attend those schools if you want to work in Ontario (where the job prospect more closely resembles the USA given the shortage of article positions, which is not good), but I could be totally wrong about that. I'd probably attend Saskatchewan, Alberta or head to BC for UBC or UVic.

Anyway, good responses. Sorry to be so dickish.

[Phil Brooks]

Hey guys,
Does anyone plan to attend MH's Exec JD program (or the weekend program)? I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and am contemplating the EJD program, in addition to St. Thomas (which would allow me to fly home every weekend with a minimum of time loss). Would be curious to hear thoughts and feelings about the program.

Why do you want the JD? If you plan on practicing law in Canada, I'm not sure how an American JD would help you. If you're doing it solely for career advancement, perhaps an executive MBA would be better for that goal. Just getting a law degree without the desire to actually practice law isn't a very good idea, given the time and money involved. Even if you do want to practice law, a JD from MH won't put you in a very good position to land legal jobs, even in its home market, let alone anywhere else.

Hmm. I think you're assuming way too much about my post (i.e. I did not discuss motives for getting a JD, just the program).

That said, you do raise an interesting question about practicing law in Canada with a US degree. American and Canadian statutes are both based on common law. The NCA only requires that, in addition to having an ABA-approved JD, that you write challenge exams or complete classes in the core competencies (property, torts, criminal and business) in addition to fulfilling their other stated requirements. You could, in theory, take a semester or two as a visiting student at a Canadian LS and complete the core competencies there as a 2L or 3L. In that case, you would be eligible to article anywhere in Canada (assuming you meet the provincial or territorial requirements) as well as to sit for any of the US bars. There are lawyers that make livings with a foot in both countries.

Finally, you seem skeptical about MH. How come?

I am a Canadian doing big-law in the U.S. Your plan will not work.

The NCAs are a huge pain and should be avoided. You cannot avoid them by taking classes on Canadian law at a Canadian law school as a visiting student, because some of the core classes are 1L classes, and visiting students generally cannot take 1L classes at a Canadian law school.

Even if you are willing to do the NCAs, you still need to find an articling job. The only foreign schools from which Canadian firms will hire articling students are prestigious foreign schools--NOT Mitchell Hamline.

[johninsask]

Hey guys,
Does anyone plan to attend MH's Exec JD program (or the weekend program)? I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and am contemplating the EJD program, in addition to St. Thomas (which would allow me to fly home every weekend with a minimum of time loss). Would be curious to hear thoughts and feelings about the program.

Why do you want the JD? If you plan on practicing law in Canada, I'm not sure how an American JD would help you. If you're doing it solely for career advancement, perhaps an executive MBA would be better for that goal. Just getting a law degree without the desire to actually practice law isn't a very good idea, given the time and money involved. Even if you do want to practice law, a JD from MH won't put you in a very good position to land legal jobs, even in its home market, let alone anywhere else.

Hmm. I think you're assuming way too much about my post (i.e. I did not discuss motives for getting a JD, just the program).

That said, you do raise an interesting question about practicing law in Canada with a US degree. American and Canadian statutes are both based on common law. The NCA only requires that, in addition to having an ABA-approved JD, that you write challenge exams or complete classes in the core competencies (property, torts, criminal and business) in addition to fulfilling their other stated requirements. You could, in theory, take a semester or two as a visiting student at a Canadian LS and complete the core competencies there as a 2L or 3L. In that case, you would be eligible to article anywhere in Canada (assuming you meet the provincial or territorial requirements) as well as to sit for any of the US bars. There are lawyers that make livings with a foot in both countries.

Finally, you seem skeptical about MH. How come?

I am a Canadian doing big-law in the U.S. Your plan will not work.

The NCAs are a huge pain and should be avoided. You cannot avoid them by taking classes on Canadian law at a Canadian law school as a visiting student, because some of the core classes are 1L classes, and visiting students generally cannot take 1L classes at a Canadian law school.

Even if you are willing to do the NCAs, you still need to find an articling job. The only foreign schools from which Canadian firms will hire articling students are prestigious foreign schools--NOT Mitchell Hamline.

Thank you! So it seems like I might be better off either aiming higher or staying in Canada for LS. Interested in solo or public int. Your reply helps.

[Phil Brooks]

Hey guys,
Does anyone plan to attend MH's Exec JD program (or the weekend program)? I live in Saskatchewan, Canada and am contemplating the EJD program, in addition to St. Thomas (which would allow me to fly home every weekend with a minimum of time loss). Would be curious to hear thoughts and feelings about the program.

Why do you want the JD? If you plan on practicing law in Canada, I'm not sure how an American JD would help you. If you're doing it solely for career advancement, perhaps an executive MBA would be better for that goal. Just getting a law degree without the desire to actually practice law isn't a very good idea, given the time and money involved. Even if you do want to practice law, a JD from MH won't put you in a very good position to land legal jobs, even in its home market, let alone anywhere else.

Hmm. I think you're assuming way too much about my post (i.e. I did not discuss motives for getting a JD, just the program).

That said, you do raise an interesting question about practicing law in Canada with a US degree. American and Canadian statutes are both based on common law. The NCA only requires that, in addition to having an ABA-approved JD, that you write challenge exams or complete classes in the core competencies (property, torts, criminal and business) in addition to fulfilling their other stated requirements. You could, in theory, take a semester or two as a visiting student at a Canadian LS and complete the core competencies there as a 2L or 3L. In that case, you would be eligible to article anywhere in Canada (assuming you meet the provincial or territorial requirements) as well as to sit for any of the US bars. There are lawyers that make livings with a foot in both countries.

Finally, you seem skeptical about MH. How come?

I am a Canadian doing big-law in the U.S. Your plan will not work.

The NCAs are a huge pain and should be avoided. You cannot avoid them by taking classes on Canadian law at a Canadian law school as a visiting student, because some of the core classes are 1L classes, and visiting students generally cannot take 1L classes at a Canadian law school.

Even if you are willing to do the NCAs, you still need to find an articling job. The only foreign schools from which Canadian firms will hire articling students are prestigious foreign schools--NOT Mitchell Hamline.

Thank you! So it seems like I might be better off either aiming higher or staying in Canada for LS. Interested in solo or public int. Your reply helps.

You should go to law school in Canada.

Even if you go to Yale, do the NCAs, and come back to Canada, you will be three years behind your competitors in terms of your knowledge of Canadian law.