Alabama $$$$ vs NYU vs army of waitlists Forum

[carsondalywashere]

You won't necessarily pay sticker if you get off a waitlist.

[runinthefront]

Well you two don't need to be dicks about it.

@Nony I understand it's not personal, but it *feels* personal. It has a big impact on my life, and I feel like I'm getting criticized ITT for not wanting to apply or reapply to certain schools (even though I reapplied to all but two of the schools I applied to from last year.

Ultimately I take the responsibility for the execution but unfortunately TLS posters last year (who tbf didn't have all the facts) led me to believe I could have a much better outcome if I reapplied with basically the same application.

That unfortunately is not the case. Maybe things would be different if I'd reapplied in November but IDK.

In fairness, your attitude/personality (as displayed in this thread, which is slightly different than how you come across in other threads) is highly abnormal, so it's hard to fault TLS's "retake and reapply early" advice.

No one would've suspected you would brush off a Cornell interview invite, or not apply to great schools because you were waitlisted in the past, or have lukewarm PS, would convey interest to schools in proportion to how much interest they showed in you, etc

Even now, it seems that you're still struggling to take "ultimate responsibility."

[stego]

Well you two don't need to be dicks about it.

@Nony I understand it's not personal, but it *feels* personal. It has a big impact on my life, and I feel like I'm getting criticized ITT for not wanting to apply or reapply to certain schools (even though I reapplied to all but two of the schools I applied to from last year.

Ultimately I take the responsibility for the execution but unfortunately TLS posters last year (who tbf didn't have all the facts) led me to believe I could have a much better outcome if I reapplied with basically the same application.

That unfortunately is not the case. Maybe things would be different if I'd reapplied in November but IDK.

In fairness, your attitude/personality (as displayed in this thread, which is slightly different than how you come across in other threads) is highly abnormal, so it's hard to fault TLS's "retake and reapply early" advice.

No one would've suspected you would brush off a Cornell interview invite, or not apply to great schools because you were waitlisted in the past, or have lukewarm PS, would convey interest to schools in proportion to how much interest they showed in you, etc

Even now, it seems that you're still struggling to take "ultimate responsibility."

My main point was that the advice to just "retake and reapply" is flawed. Schools want to see a different application. Reapplicants are unlikely to do better unless there's a big change in the app or a big change in the applicant pool.

[IExistedOnceBefore]

Well you two don't need to be dicks about it.

@Nony I understand it's not personal, but it *feels* personal. It has a big impact on my life, and I feel like I'm getting criticized ITT for not wanting to apply or reapply to certain schools (even though I reapplied to all but two of the schools I applied to from last year.

Ultimately I take the responsibility for the execution but unfortunately TLS posters last year (who tbf didn't have all the facts) led me to believe I could have a much better outcome if I reapplied with basically the same application.

That unfortunately is not the case. Maybe things would be different if I'd reapplied in November but IDK.

In fairness, your attitude/personality (as displayed in this thread, which is slightly different than how you come across in other threads) is highly abnormal, so it's hard to fault TLS's "retake and reapply early" advice.

No one would've suspected you would brush off a Cornell interview invite, or not apply to great schools because you were waitlisted in the past, or have lukewarm PS, would convey interest to schools in proportion to how much interest they showed in you, etc

Even now, it seems that you're still struggling to take "ultimate responsibility."

My main point was that the advice to just "retake and reapply" is flawed. Schools want to see a different application. Reapplicants are unlikely to do better unless there's a big change in the app or a big change in the applicant pool.

You were unlikely to do better because your application was a poison pill and no one at TLS knew that when you asked. Traditionally, and normally, a retake for a higher LSAT and a reapplication with minor updates to resumes if something changes will get better results with a higher LSAT score.

We didn't have all the information when you asked TLS the first time so you got the status quo advice, which is normally sound advice.

[A. Nony Mouse]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

[stego]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

[runinthefront]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

It's not just your PS though. It's your flippant attitude toward the process and law school generally. Your posts on this particular thread (and apparently your actions over the last several months toward law schools) exude a rather immature and idiosyncratic mindset regarding law school.

No one could have predicted that.

[A. Nony Mouse]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

I think people do underestimate the PS a little, but there are lots of discussions of reapplying here (including in Spivey's thread). I suppose it's also a little misleading in that lots of people say "reapply early next year for a better outcome" without making clear that "reapplying" entails making changes, not just sending the same materials in again.

[runinthefront]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

I think people do underestimate the PS a little, but there are lots of discussions of reapplying here (including in Spivey's thread). I suppose it's also a little misleading in that lots of people say "reapply early next year for a better outcome" without making clear that "reapplying" entails making changes, not just sending the same materials in again.

Except that's not totally necessary, Nony. You can 100% have a much better outcome with a 1-2 point LSAT increase and the same PS, same LORs, and same emails. 'Retake and reapply' doesn't require a material change in application (aside from the LSAT score/date of application submission).

You're stretching to find unnecessary nuance. The fact is that stego straight-up dropped the ball here, and absolutely no one could've predicted that.

[stego]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

I think people do underestimate the PS a little, but there are lots of discussions of reapplying here (including in Spivey's thread). I suppose it's also a little misleading in that lots of people say "reapply early next year for a better outcome" without making clear that "reapplying" entails making changes, not just sending the same materials in again.

Except that's not totally necessary, Nony. You can 100% have a much better outcome with a 1-2 point LSAT increase and the same PS, same LORs, and same emails. 'Retake and reapply' doesn't require a material change in application (aside from the LSAT score/date of application submission).

You're stretching to find unnecessary nuance. The fact is that stego straight-up dropped the ball here, and absolutely no one could've predicted that.

That's not what the consultant from Spivey told me. Can you have success with the exact same app resubmitted. Sure. That doesn't mean that you should.

The repeated comments about my attitude are starting to get on my nerves.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think he did drop the ball, but there are lots of posts here talking about reapplying and they do all talk about the importance of updating the PS when you do. You're right that an LSAT score increase is going to be really important (I forgot for a moment that that was the scenario here), so maybe not as necessary with a score increase, but probably better practice.

And Stego I think people are only still talking about your attitude because it doesn't come across as though you see any problems with it. (That may not be fair, it's just how the posts come across.)

[ms9]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

It's not just your PS though. It's your flippant attitude toward the process and law school generally. Your posts on this particular thread (and apparently your actions over the last several months toward law schools) exude a rather immature and idiosyncratic mindset regarding law school.

No one could have predicted that.

Just to offer a Devil's Advocate perspective, if you have two cycles of applying that show a flippant attitude toward law schools themselves, and two cycles of under-performance, why would applying a third time and submitting a new PS change how they law schools see you as an applicant? They have the other two applications in your file.

Many of our bread and butter clients are people that reapply. You can have MUCH better results. But there are some cases where mistakes will stay with you such that the results won't improve. Just my 2 cents.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Oh sure. I think some of us are picking apart past actions, which doesn't really help going forward.

[Npret]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

It's not just your PS though. It's your flippant attitude toward the process and law school generally. Your posts on this particular thread (and apparently your actions over the last several months toward law schools) exude a rather immature and idiosyncratic mindset regarding law school.

No one could have predicted that.

Just to offer a Devil's Advocate perspective, if you have two cycles of applying that show a flippant attitude toward law schools themselves, and two cycles of under-performance, why would applying a third time and submitting a new PS change how they law schools see you as an applicant? They have the other two applications in your file.

Many of our bread and butter clients are people that reapply. You can have MUCH better results. But there are some cases where mistakes will stay with you such that the results won't improve. Just my 2 cents.

I think the forum agrees because there were several posts here saying " something is wrong with your application you need to figure that out." We didn't have access to OPs info though so we could only guess.
OP: so you made some errors. Figure out what is best for you now and move forward. You are hardly the only applicant who makes mistakes. Maybe law really isn't for you but maybe it is and only you can decide what is in your best interest.

[ms9]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

It's not just your PS though. It's your flippant attitude toward the process and law school generally. Your posts on this particular thread (and apparently your actions over the last several months toward law schools) exude a rather immature and idiosyncratic mindset regarding law school.

No one could have predicted that.

Just to offer a Devil's Advocate perspective, if you have two cycles of applying that show a flippant attitude toward law schools themselves, and two cycles of under-performance, why would applying a third time and submitting a new PS change how they law schools see you as an applicant? They have the other two applications in your file.

Many of our bread and butter clients are people that reapply. You can have MUCH better results. But there are some cases where mistakes will stay with you such that the results won't improve. Just my 2 cents.

I think the forum agrees because there were several posts here saying " something is wrong with your application you need to figure that out." We didn't have access to OPs info though so we could only guess.
OP: so you made some errors. Figure out what is best for you now and move forward. You are hardly the only applicant who makes mistakes. Maybe law really isn't for you but maybe it is and only you can decide what is in your best interest.

In my 18-19 years in legal education, I have never seen someone who really wants something not be able to overcome a few errors in the long run. Said errors can slow the process down a bit, but again the ones that have a deep passion always end up just about where they started off aiming for. So I guess my point is to find that deep passion, if possible.

Okay I'm out of this thread good luck Stego!

[emkay625]

Am I correct that you haven't written an LOCI yet? You should write an LOCI to each school your waitlisted at and send them TODAY. These letters need to be detailed and need to reflect genuine excitement to attend each individual school. Call out specific things. Don't make them form letters.

You can certainly get money off of a waitlist if you play your cards right.

[Npret]

TBF, people who reapply are regularly told that they need to write new essays if they do. (And maybe update LORs? That kind of thing.)

Is it also fair to say that in a lot of these discussions those topics don't even come up? I think everyone, myself included, underestimated the capacity of my PS (among other things) to screw me over.

It's not just your PS though. It's your flippant attitude toward the process and law school generally. Your posts on this particular thread (and apparently your actions over the last several months toward law schools) exude a rather immature and idiosyncratic mindset regarding law school.

No one could have predicted that.

Just to offer a Devil's Advocate perspective, if you have two cycles of applying that show a flippant attitude toward law schools themselves, and two cycles of under-performance, why would applying a third time and submitting a new PS change how they law schools see you as an applicant? They have the other two applications in your file.

Many of our bread and butter clients are people that reapply. You can have MUCH better results. But there are some cases where mistakes will stay with you such that the results won't improve. Just my 2 cents.

I think the forum agrees because there were several posts here saying " something is wrong with your application you need to figure that out." We didn't have access to OPs info though so we could only guess.
OP: so you made some errors. Figure out what is best for you now and move forward. You are hardly the only applicant who makes mistakes. Maybe law really isn't for you but maybe it is and only you can decide what is in your best interest.

In my 18-19 years in legal education, I have never seen someone who really wants something not be able to overcome a few errors in the long run. Said errors can slow the process down a bit, but again the ones that have a deep passion always end up just about where they started off aiming for. So I guess my point is to find that deep passion, if possible.

Okay I'm out of this thread good luck Stego!

Thanks so much for all of your input here. It was a really great help.

[chargers21]

Am I correct that you haven't written an LOCI yet? You should write an LOCI to each school your waitlisted at and send them TODAY. These letters need to be detailed and need to reflect genuine excitement to attend each individual school. Call out specific things. Don't make them form letters.

You can certainly get money off of a waitlist if you play your cards right.

I think well thought out LOCIs might even be useful for showing signs of improvement towards a completely overhauled application next cycle

[michlaw]

With your numbers send a well thought out LOCI, with a discussion of your cycle, and why you think it happened, to Dean Z at Michigan. She is one of the best and one of the nicest in the business. That said wait-lists are fickle things. Free Bama ain't so bad but not really the thing for clerking or PI. Good luck.

[Paul Campos]

Not buying that a 3.93 171 struck out across the entire T-14 because of a bad PS, a few traffic tickets, lack of "passion" etc. I bet if you apply this fall with new LORs you'll get completely different results.

[stego]

Just got an email earlier today from NYU that makes it sound like they're about to give out some waitlist admits. But the e-mail also says, "Please note that scholarships will be awarded only to those who qualify for financial need-based funding."

It would be a nice ego boost to get in, but I guess the honorable thing to do is tell them I'm out of the running.

For the record I'm not sure if I would qualify for need-based aid or for how much since I wouldn't need it at Alabama but I can't imagine it's enough.

[Npret]

Just got an email earlier today from NYU that makes it sound like they're about to give out some waitlist admits. But the e-mail also says, "Please note that scholarships will be awarded only to those who qualify for financial need-based funding."

It would be a nice ego boost to get in, but I guess the honorable thing to do is tell them I'm out of the running.

For the record I'm not sure if I would qualify for need-based aid or for how much since I wouldn't need it at Alabama but I can't imagine it's enough.

Just actually try to get accepted and see how much it is. You don't even know how much you qualify for and it might be a lot as you sound like you make $11 an hour working in a warehouse.
It has nothing to do with Alabamas offer to you.

[Borhas]

just have deep passion?

[cron1834]

Just got an email earlier today from NYU that makes it sound like they're about to give out some waitlist admits. But the e-mail also says, "Please note that scholarships will be awarded only to those who qualify for financial need-based funding."

It would be a nice ego boost to get in, but I guess the honorable thing to do is tell them I'm out of the running.

For the record I'm not sure if I would qualify for need-based aid or for how much since I wouldn't need it at Alabama but I can't imagine it's enough.

Just actually try to get accepted and see how much it is. You don't even know how much you qualify for and it might be a lot as you sound like you make $11 an hour working in a warehouse.
It has nothing to do with Alabamas offer to you.

Yep.

OP, dude, you seem to engage in a lot of self-sabotage here. NYU is probably the best place for someone interested in prestigious-PI and clerking, outside of HYS. Just be positive, work the waitlists, and see what happens. The comments about your attitude may be aggravating, but they are necessary to hear, because your attitude seems to be driving your actions in your admissions cycles. Declining interview requests, withdrawing from waitlists, lukewarm expressions of interest... knock that stuff off, and then see what happens. If you still come up empty-handed, then maybe you have grounds to complain. But I don't think you do just yet, based on the info ITT.

[kellyfrost]

Did this disaster ever get sorted out? OP, are you going Alabama?