Alabama $$$$ vs NYU vs army of waitlists Forum

[Dcc617]

I don't think the TLS advice is the problem. OP didn't apply to places like WUSTL/ BU/BC where OP could have had a decent shot at money- assuming nothing else is wrong.

The applications seem from to be haphazard and OP applied to Alabama on a whim because of iTunes card. No offense meant OP.

Missing interview requests (Cornell) and being late for an interview (Georgetown) didn't help. I'm not sure OPnhad a coherent story to sell themselves. Also applying in January had to hurt.

I understand and sympathize with OP but it's hard to say OP getting a stipend and full ride at Alabama is worse than going to UNH. Also OP should have more options and we can't figure out why not.

Just my view.

I agree with all of this. But the OP has made it clear that they are not willing to wait for yet another cycle, and I was trying to keep that in mind in terms of making my comment. Also, IDK, they have family/personal ties to those states versus Bama, where they have none.

I would definitely have someone go over every aspect of my app if I was in his place, but I understand not wanting to wait yet another cycle. The OP isn't some k-jd, or someone with a year or so out of school I assume (since they have a Masters) so there's that to keep in mind.

Well yeah, but life is long and there's no medal for finishing law school earlier. OP may have fucked up and will be settling for less than they could get if they waited. It's frustrating but it's life. If OP is not excited to work in Alabama forever then they should not go. It's that simple.

[KissMyAxe]

I don't think the TLS advice is the problem. OP didn't apply to places like WUSTL/ BU/BC where OP could have had a decent shot at money- assuming nothing else is wrong.

The applications seem from to be haphazard and OP applied to Alabama on a whim because of iTunes card. No offense meant OP.

Missing interview requests (Cornell) and being late for an interview (Georgetown) didn't help. I'm not sure OPnhad a coherent story to sell themselves. Also applying in January had to hurt.

I understand and sympathize with OP but it's hard to say OP getting a stipend and full ride at Alabama is worse than going to UNH. Also OP should have more options and we can't figure out why not.

Just my view.

I agree with all of this. But the OP has made it clear that they are not willing to wait for yet another cycle, and I was trying to keep that in mind in terms of making my comment. Also, IDK, they have family/personal ties to those states versus Bama, where they have none.

I would definitely have someone go over every aspect of my app if I was in his place, but I understand not wanting to wait yet another cycle. The OP isn't some k-jd, or someone with a year or so out of school I assume (since they have a Masters) so there's that to keep in mind.

Well yeah, but life is long and there's no medal for finishing law school earlier. OP may have fucked up and will be settling for less than they could get if they waited. It's frustrating but it's life. If OP is not excited to work in Alabama forever then they should not go. It's that simple.

Completely correct. OP, if you're still out there, shoot me a PM. You have fantastic numbers. You should seriously be looking at good money at the best schools. I'd expect someone with your numbers to be in with $$ at Chicago, which makes sense for you. I think HLS and SLS are also not out of the question.There's no way you're getting these rejections and waitlisted by virtue of meh work experience and a low grad GPA. There are only two possibilities (1) your personal statement is absolutely terrible, and by terrible, I mean you say something like "I once didn't have air conditioning for a week so I understand poverty" or something else that seems extremely immature or ignorant. Even a mediocre personal statement wouldn't cause you to underperform this much. But I doubt this is the case, so I think it's (2) one of your recommenders are torpedoing you. You said you used them the last 3 cycles, but all 3 cycles have been bad for you. I would ask your recommenders to show you their letters. If they won't, drop them and get someone else.

It does suck to wait one more cycle. However, the difference is going to get money at a fantastic school that will load you down with opportunities and degree portability, or going somewhere that will only let you practice in that place, which you don't seem to even want to do long-term.

[stego]

I don't think the TLS advice is the problem. OP didn't apply to places like WUSTL/ BU/BC where OP could have had a decent shot at money- assuming nothing else is wrong

I did apply to BU last year. Granted It was closer to the deadline and my LSAT was only a 168 then, but I got waitlisted to fucking BU. Last interest in BU after that.

I could have applied to BC or WUSTL this year, but you know what? I applied to 10 T14 schools. It was a lot of money even considering I got fee waivers for about half of them. I really thought I was going to have options.

And maybe I'm wrong but I'm just not convinced a WUSTL degree is *that* much more portable than an Alabama one. Not hating on WUSTL but I'm not convinced an Alabama grad can't go elsewhere.

[stego]

You said you used them all 3 cycles, but all 3 cycles have been bad for you.

My first cycle went great. I got in everywhere I applied with money, except Duke. But Duke was the only T13 I applied to that year. I hadn't discovered TLS yet when I was deciding where to apply. The rest were either state flagships or lower-ranked schools.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I mean, where do you want to take your Alabama degree? I'll note that when I go to federal training stuff I see people from all locations of schools - I sort of think if you want to/can do federal stuff region is a little less important, people get that the feds are in DC and so you go there. But I have never met an Alabama LS grad in the west or the NE. The south may well be different, I don't know lawyers there.

I am more optimistic about people moving around than many here but I don't think going to Alabama without ties or an intent to stay there is a great idea (especially when, no offense, you don't sound super clear about what you want to do and seem to follow the path of least resistance). You're going to look up 10 years from now and be ensconced in Alabama. If you're okay with that, that works, I guess. But it sounds like you're deciding what you want based on what is easiest, not on what you actually want.

(Also losing interest in places because they waitlist you - honestly you're going to need to change this attitude in the future.)

[Npret]

I don't think the TLS advice is the problem. OP didn't apply to places like WUSTL/ BU/BC where OP could have had a decent shot at money- assuming nothing else is wrong

I did apply to BU last year. Granted It was closer to the deadline and my LSAT was only a 168 then, but I got waitlisted to fucking BU. Last interest in BU after that.

I could have applied to BC or WUSTL this year, but you know what? I applied to 10 T14 schools. It was a lot of money even considering I got fee waivers for about half of them. I really thought I was going to have options.

And maybe I'm wrong but I'm just not convinced a WUSTL degree is *that* much more portable than an Alabama one. Not hating on WUSTL but I'm not convinced an Alabama grad can't go elsewhere.

Why not? Where do you think an Alabama grad will be employable?
I'm still not sure why you don't have options because you are correct that you really should have options.

[foregetaboutdre]

Do you have any C&F issues? I glanced through the 3 pages and didn't see anyone inquire about it..

[stego]

Do you have any C&F issues? I glanced through the 3 pages and didn't see anyone inquire about it..

Not really. Some traffic tickets. I've never been arrested or anything like that. Some of the apps ask if you've ever left school. I did leave my MA unfinished and went back and finished it 3 years later.

[sublime]

I don't think the TLS advice is the problem. OP didn't apply to places like WUSTL/ BU/BC where OP could have had a decent shot at money- assuming nothing else is wrong

I did apply to BU last year. Granted It was closer to the deadline and my LSAT was only a 168 then, but I got waitlisted to fucking BU. Last interest in BU after that.

I could have applied to BC or WUSTL this year, but you know what? I applied to 10 T14 schools. It was a lot of money even considering I got fee waivers for about half of them. I really thought I was going to have options.

And maybe I'm wrong but I'm just not convinced a WUSTL degree is *that* much more portable than an Alabama one. Not hating on WUSTL but I'm not convinced an Alabama grad can't go elsewhere.

The location data to the extent it is reported is pretty easy to find on lst. Also note the 45 to 23% biglaw/fed clerk percentages.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Do you have any C&F issues? I glanced through the 3 pages and didn't see anyone inquire about it..

Not really. Some traffic tickets. I've never been arrested or anything like that. Some of the apps ask if you've ever left school. I did leave my MA unfinished and went back and finished it 3 years later.

so how long have you been out of undergrad?

[stego]

Do you have any C&F issues? I glanced through the 3 pages and didn't see anyone inquire about it..

Not really. Some traffic tickets. I've never been arrested or anything like that. Some of the apps ask if you've ever left school. I did leave my MA unfinished and went back and finished it 3 years later.

so how long have you been out of undergrad?

graduated in 2010

[chargers21]

Do you have any C&F issues? I glanced through the 3 pages and didn't see anyone inquire about it..

Not really. Some traffic tickets. I've never been arrested or anything like that. Some of the apps ask if you've ever left school. I did leave my MA unfinished and went back and finished it 3 years later.

so how long have you been out of undergrad?

graduated in 2010

Northwestern should be throwing 150k at you all day long as an older applicant with your stats

[stego]

Does anyone know if law schools actually contact letters of recommendation writers? They ask for phone numbers or email addresses but I assume that generally they don't reach out.

If my letter writers' opinion of me changed since they wrote the letter, that might hurt me, but I guess it's more likely the letters just weren't that favorable in the first place.

[dm1683]

goddamn it this scares the crap out of me as a future applicant.

0L so I don't have any advice, but good luck OP.

[stego]

I'm at least starting to consider, what would I do if I sat out this cycle and reapplied? The issue is, I don't see how I could reasonably ask Alabama to defer me another year. If I don't go this year, it would be clear that I don't want to go there. So I'd have to burn that bridge and sit out for THREE WHOLE YEARS without any guarantee of a favorable outcome. And I'd have to spend hundreds of additional dollars on an application process that I would prefer not to go through again. Plus, I'd probably have to retake the LSAT for the fifth time to try to improve on my 171 since LSAC did away with the maximum number of takes.

I'd also have to find something to do for the next year that makes me not want to kill myself. I'm currently working at a warehouse for $11/hr with no benefits. It's not hard but it's very boring.

Also, nobody in my family would believe I was ever actually going to law school.

[Npret]

There is no point in reapplying until you find out what's wrong.
I would ask for advice in the Spivey thread at least.
This is a tough question.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I mean, if you decide not to go to Alabama now, it doesn't matter if you burn that bridge - you shouldn't go there next year either. You shouldn't go there just because you don't get into the other places you'd really rather go to.

I also don't think you'd have to take the LSAT again - your score is still an excellent score, the whatever-top-percentile isn't going to magically drop at this point in the process.

Finding another job might improve your resume, too.

I agree that getting someone like Spivey to look at your materials would be helpful. Your LORs may be the problem, or it may be a combo of all the little things (lower grad GPA, leaving that program for a bit, meh WE).

[chargers21]

Trust me, menial factory jobs are not application killers. You'll be fine if you work out whatever, apparently major, kinks your app has. You have a high post count, you've spent a lot of time on here. You know better than settling. You have almost coinflip Harvard numbers. You have t13 big money numbers. You are aware of this. Get some help, crush next cycle.

[Alexandros]

.

[cron1834]

Echoing what others have said, numbers alone should have you in at Columbia, Chicago, and NYU and a full scholarship or close at Northwestern or Cornell. Unless you're coming across as a serial killer. You come across pretty flaky tbh, but unless you're actually appearing like a serial killer, your outcome is bizarrely unlikely.

I would definitely reapply with a replacement PS/LORs, and EARLY in the cycle next year. You should also consider EDing at Northwestern... its like 90% off tuition if you get it, so it's unlike undergrad ED.

If you're sure you want law school, don't quit or settle for some random state university. I applied in my early 30s with useless graduate degrees, I'm lazy af, and I accomplished my goals. So you can too.

[Npret]

Here's an old thread about Alabama:

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 4&start=25

[stego]

I had a free consult with one of the partners of the Spivey Consulting group today. I have a lot to think about but I am still leaning towards attending law school in the fall.

We discussed the weaknesses in my application. Reapplying seems like a bit of an uphill climb because all the T13 schools I've applied to will have my old application on file.

I do feel ppl on here are a bit too negative on Alabama. It's probably not right for most people. But the "have fun living in Alabama forever" seems like hyperbole. It looks like between 60 and 40% of the last few classes stayed in the state. If you assume the majority of students are from AL and that those ones are more likely to stay, then the out of state students are probably more likely to leave than to stay. Granted, I'm sure most of them stay in the Southeast or Texas.

[Npret]

I had a free consult with one of the partners of the Spivey Consulting group today. I have a lot to think about but I am still leaning towards attending law school in the fall.

We discussed the weaknesses in my application. Reapplying seems like a bit of an uphill climb because all the T13 schools I've applied to will have my old application on file.

I do feel ppl on here are a bit too negative on Alabama. It's probably not right for most people. But the "have fun living in Alabama forever" seems like hyperbole. It looks like between 60 and 40% of the last few classes stayed in the state. If you assume the majority of students are from AL and that those ones are more likely to stay, then the out of state students are probably more likely to leave than to stay. Granted, I'm sure most of them stay in the Southeast or Texas.

The pertinent question is if they have jobs with their Alabama degree and, if so,how important were their pre-existing ties to those markets. I mean anyone can decide to just move back home. Have you talked to Alabamas career placement or grads about Alabama PI jobs?
But you are going for free plus stipend so there's that benefit.
I just really don't know what happened and I think you were really smart to pursue the consultation.

[sanzgo]

i know you REALLY don't want to wait another year but trust me, this is not the RIGHT decision, it's the ONLY decision to make here.

sure, even if you apply again this cycle, maybe the t-13 won't bite. but i bet wustl will throw mad money your way. as for what to do for another year, i'd suggest going on a working holiday if you really don't have any plans whatsoever. this is your career we're talking about here. you're entering a profession that is extremely obsessed with prestige and grades (which have a pretty subjective component to them in the first place). the jobs available to you will depend on the jobs you had before them; the previous jobs will depend on your first job; your first job will depend on your school + grades. you see a trend here? starting off on the wrong foot will bring about disproportionately big career consequences later in this profession. don't hate the player, hate the game. in which case, you should take advantage of the rules of the game as much as possible. and your scores make it very, very possible. later in your career, that 1 additional year won't seem like anything.

this isn't a popular opinion on TLS but personally, i'd much rather go to ccn at sticker than alabama paying me a stipend to attend. but that may be b/c i probably have different career goals from you.

this isn't even a t13-or-bust scenario. if you were going to a good regional school on a scholarship like UW (univ of washington) that is home to a sizable (relatively) legal market aka seattle, then unless you have super-unicorny aspirations, it's prob worth it. this is why you should reapply regardless. even if the t-13 doesn't bite this time (unlikely btw), i'm sure you'll at least get a good regional school (with a good home market) with scholarship.

[Paul Campos]

I get the sense that you're leaving some big detail out of this story. The only plausible explanation for these results, assuming you're being candid about the absence of any serious C&F issues, is a really terrible letter of recommendation, as in "don't admit this person." Is there any reason you might have such a LOR in your file?