NDLS ($$) v. W&L ($$$) Forum

[RC_Cola]

Asking for a friend.

COA at NDLS ~140k
COA at W&L ~70k

Career goals are USAO/DOJ and possibly clerk. No real geographic preference.

[foregetaboutdre]

Asking for a friend.

COA at NDLS ~140k
COA at W&L ~70k

Career goals are USAO/DOJ and possibly clerk. No real geographic preference.

Career goals are extremely lofty. ND does better at placing clerks (and may do even better with more conservative appointments, but it's not Harvard/Yale etc...). Both schools aren't going to really shoe you in for a USAO/DOJ job. I'd say ND gives you a definite advantage in their home market (Chi) than W&L does for DC. But, the path to USAO usually involves being a DA somewhere, which isn't going to be super school sensitive (outside NYC etc...). It all really depends on money/LRAP tbh (and personal preferences).

[cavalier1138]

But, the path to USAO usually involves being a DA somewhere working biglaw and possibly a federal clerkship or two.

There are a handful of AUSAs who work their way up through a local DA's office, but most competitive USAOs (the ones that feed to Main Justice) recruit people with 4-5 years of biglaw/clerking experience.

OP: Those are good long-term career goals to have, but they're also a bit of a crapshoot. They certainly aren't jobs you can count on right out of school. So what job do you see yourself having right after graduation? Or what job do you see yourself having if you miss the AUSA boat?

[TirantMartorell]

ND for $140K is a bit high. I would say ND is doable for under $100K. Try to negotiate your scholarship. Also, do you think you'd be interested in being an assistant rector? I recommend you look into the assistant rector program at ND. It's not hard to get if you have the right personality and background for the job (people person, committed to undergrad success, passionate about ND, religious background a plus). That would significantly reduce your COA at ND.

Where are you from? ND will give you the best opportunities if you try to return to your home market.

Also, I believe ND has a very good LRAP - I would look into that.

[RC_Cola]

But, the path to USAO usually involves being a DA somewhere working biglaw and possibly a federal clerkship or two.

There are a handful of AUSAs who work their way up through a local DA's office, but most competitive USAOs (the ones that feed to Main Justice) recruit people with 4-5 years of biglaw/clerking experience.

OP: Those are good long-term career goals to have, but they're also a bit of a crapshoot. They certainly aren't jobs you can count on right out of school. So what job do you see yourself having right after graduation? Or what job do you see yourself having if you miss the AUSA boat?

if my friend missed USAO/DOJ, then local DA or state DOJ would be the goal. criminal prosecution is the practice area they are most interested in.

[RC_Cola]

ND for $140K is a bit high. I would say ND is doable for under $100K. Try to negotiate your scholarship. Also, do you think you'd be interested in being an assistant rector? I recommend you look into the assistant rector program at ND. It's not hard to get if you have the right personality and background for the job (people person, committed to undergrad success, passionate about ND, religious background a plus). That would significantly reduce your COA at ND.

Where are you from? ND will give you the best opportunities if you try to return to your home market.

Also, I believe ND has a very good LRAP - I would look into that.

southern california, but they don't have a geographical preference post-grad.

[poptart123]

neither for socal. NDLS with $$ means he is probably in low to mid 160s with the LSAT and should retake for a few more points so he can get into UCLA/USC.

[RC_Cola]

neither for socal. NDLS with $$ means he is probably in low to mid 160s with the LSAT and should retake for a few more points so he can get into UCLA/USC.

no desire to work in california, especially southern california. also, out of takes.

[cavalier1138]

But, the path to USAO usually involves being a DA somewhere working biglaw and possibly a federal clerkship or two.

There are a handful of AUSAs who work their way up through a local DA's office, but most competitive USAOs (the ones that feed to Main Justice) recruit people with 4-5 years of biglaw/clerking experience.

OP: Those are good long-term career goals to have, but they're also a bit of a crapshoot. They certainly aren't jobs you can count on right out of school. So what job do you see yourself having right after graduation? Or what job do you see yourself having if you miss the AUSA boat?

if my friend missed USAO/DOJ, then local DA or state DOJ would be the goal. criminal prosecution is the practice area they are most interested in.

Your friend should probably ask these questions themselves and/or at least do some basic research. There is no such thing as "state DOJ". There's the state AG office, but they don't do criminal prosecution.

The problem is that the career track for federal prosecution is different than it is for being a DA. You can get into the latter right out of school, but the former requires a few years of experience, usually in biglaw and clerking. ND has a decent LRAP, but your friend needs to figure out which career track they want and/or where they want to do it. And they really should retake to give themselves better options than these, especially if they want to keep a future AUSA position as a real possibility.

This is all assuming that your friend is not you.

[RC_Cola]

Your friend should probably ask these questions themselves and/or at least do some basic research. There is no such thing as "state DOJ". There's the state AG office, but they don't do criminal prosecution.

The problem is that the career track for federal prosecution is different than it is for being a DA. You can get into the latter right out of school, but the former requires a few years of experience, usually in biglaw and clerking. ND has a decent LRAP, but your friend needs to figure out which career track they want and/or where they want to do it. And they really should retake to give themselves better options than these, especially if they want to keep a future AUSA position as a real possibility.

This is all assuming that your friend is not you.

my b, california has a state DOJ. friend is not me, ive already decided on a school. appreciate the input.

[foregetaboutdre]

But, the path to USAO usually involves being a DA somewhere working biglaw and possibly a federal clerkship or two.

There are a handful of AUSAs who work their way up through a local DA's office, but most competitive USAOs (the ones that feed to Main Justice) recruit people with 4-5 years of biglaw/clerking experience.

OP: Those are good long-term career goals to have, but they're also a bit of a crapshoot. They certainly aren't jobs you can count on right out of school. So what job do you see yourself having right after graduation? Or what job do you see yourself having if you miss the AUSA boat?

Yikes. Thanks for the correction (sincerely). Being in a secondary market in flyover land I often forget how different AUSA offices work.