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Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:30 pm
by mtf612
Hi all. 3.91/170. Waitlists at Harvard, Chicago, Virginia, Michigan, and Georgetown. Held at Columbia and still pending at NYU. Yale, Stanford, and Berkeley rejections.

Goal is NYC biglaw but I am open to a pursuing a clerkship. Am I making a mistake by taking one of these offers? I have taken the LSAT twice (first was a canceled score), I am three years out of undergrad, and I'm very much ready to start school this fall. If I hear good news from NYU/CLS it will be a miracle. Not expecting to get off the HLS waitlist but somewhat hopeful for Chicago being at both medians. Not worried about the other waitlists. Not debt averse, more concerned about employability. Considering studying for the June LSAT coming up, but I'll be honest in that I am not sure whether I honestly could get any more points...

School (Scholly / Cost = [Tuition + ABA CoL * 3] - Scholly)

Cornell (150k/122K)
Northwestern (120k/139k)
Duke (105k/159k)
Penn (105k/172k)


Please don't quote, planning to take this down eventually. I appreciate your comments!

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:43 pm
by kingpin101
IDK Cornell at near full ride seems pretty good to me.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:52 pm
by goldenbear2020
kingpin101 wrote:IDK Cornell at near full ride seems pretty good to me.

+1. Especially for NYC biglaw.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:53 pm
by trebekismyhero
goldenbear2020 wrote:
kingpin101 wrote:IDK Cornell at near full ride seems pretty good to me.

+1. Especially for NYC biglaw.


Yeah, easy call. Go to Cornell

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:17 pm
by mtf612
Interesting. Would have expected the collective wisdom to be "retake" lol.

How much more would you say a Penn degree is worth over Cornell? Right now the diff is like 50k, at what point would it be worth the money?

As an addendum, would your choice of Cornell change if your family was funding your education?

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:23 pm
by Lavitz
Well, right now the difference is >150K since you don't have an actual Penn offer yet.

But idk. How much would you be willing to pay to spend 3 years in Philly instead of Ithaca?

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:24 pm
by Po$eidon
Lavitz wrote:Well, right now the difference is >150K since you don't have an actual Penn offer yet.

But idk. How much would you be willing to pay to spend 3 years in Philly instead of Ithaca?


This. Don't count eggs before they've hatched is a good law apps rule.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 3:37 pm
by UVA2B
mtf612 wrote:Interesting. Would have expected the collective wisdom to be "retake" lol.

How much more would you say a Penn degree is worth over Cornell? Right now the diff is like 50k, at what point would it be worth the money?

As an addendum, would your choice of Cornell change if your family was funding your education?


When equal or damn near it. And no, family funding should not matter. Money is money, and Penn is not so substantially better at getting NYC Biglaw than Cornell.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:01 pm
by lilitiger99
Why would you be mistaken? Cornell at nearly a full ride for NYC big law seems like a no brainer.

I know people on here can be prestige whores, but from talking to real life lawyers and the lawyers on here, everyone is going to say take the money and a lower t13 rather than pay sticker at Columbia, NYU, etc.

I'm most likely turning down my t6 offers @ sticker to go to Duke or Cornell depending which one will scholarship match, and I was at Cornell's ASW and was very impressed. Their employment offers & Big law stats are very good, though apparently only Columbia and up will get you Watchell etc.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:14 pm
by Keilz
If your goal is nyc big law, take Cornell.

I don't think retaking will help you in this situation. Your WL at the mid t14 and lack of response from NYU/CLS most likely aren't due to your numbers, because they are already good enough for them.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:28 pm
by Malarkey
Even if you receive the scholarship from Penn that you're hoping for, I'd choose Cornell here. Penn would have to come very close to matching Cornell's scholarship for it to be worth it.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 2:05 pm
by ponderingmeerkat
I'll add to the "Cornell chorus" here.

For generic NYC biglaw, it'll do as well as Penn at 50K less. That's a win.

Hypotheticals: if Columbia was 50K more, I'd take Columbia. If you weren't sure but thought maybe possibly DC was a target market, I'd take Penn. If you were seriously considering a joint MBA/JD, Penn.

But, you want a vanilla JD and your goals are vanilla NYC biglaw...it's Cornell and it's not even close. Enjoy a great outcome! Good luck.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:27 pm
by Pure Applesauce
cornell

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:33 pm
by lakers180
what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:37 pm
by Pure Applesauce
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:36 am
by lakers180
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:39 am
by Po$eidon
lakers180 wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw


Emphasis on 'shot'. Maybe OP gets CN free or maybe OP gets the exact same outcome. There are plenty of above both 75ths students that get squat.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:44 am
by Pure Applesauce
lakers180 wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw


But no guarantee at all. It is also likely he raises his lsat and has the same outcome

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 11:48 am
by Malarkey
lakers180 wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw


So you're saying OP should take a year off for the possibility of increasing his/her LSAT score, which unless OP gets a full ride at Columbia or NYU, would result in OP paying significantly more for a degree that would get... what exactly? For OP's goals, the shot at a V10 over a V20? With no difference in pay?

If OP's goals were different, this might be a good idea, but as it stands I just don't see it.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 12:27 pm
by goldenbear2020
Po$eidon wrote:
lakers180 wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw


Emphasis on 'shot'. Maybe OP gets CN free or maybe OP gets the exact same outcome. There are plenty of above both 75ths students that get squat.

Maybe even a worse outcome if OP gets YPed from Cornell/other T13s after turning down their near full rides.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 2:00 pm
by Rigo
I'd take a crack at negotiating since you have pretty competitive numbers and offers, but for NYC biglaw I'd probably just matriculate unless you really want to wait a year. This isn't a glaring retake situation and your scholarships are for the most part good. I'd pick Cornell.

Also even if you get H I wouldn't take it. No real benefit for NYC biglaw so not worth the debt.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:06 pm
by Traynor Brah
lakers180 wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw

OK, but the opportunity cost of giving up a year of biglaw salary for the chance at a comparable scholarship at another school that will get him essentially the same job makes this a kind of silly idea.

OP, if you get a scholarship from Penn that makes the COA w/in like 50K, I don't think it'd be unjustifiable to choose Penn if you feel you'd be significantly happier spending three years in Philly, as that'd still be a reasonable debt load.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:18 pm
by Po$eidon
goldenbear2020 wrote:
Po$eidon wrote:
lakers180 wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw


Emphasis on 'shot'. Maybe OP gets CN free or maybe OP gets the exact same outcome. There are plenty of above both 75ths students that get squat.

Maybe even a worse outcome if OP gets YPed from Cornell/other T13s after turning down their near full rides.


Hard agree

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 4:21 pm
by Dr. Nefario
Traynor Brah wrote:
lakers180 wrote:
Pure Applesauce wrote:
lakers180 wrote:what are your lsat breakdowns, i would try to sit out another year and retake...just 3 more points and you're looking at money ccn down and a chance at h y s


near full ride at Cornell with goal of NYC big law. What is the upside of waiting another year?


with that gpa and clearly proven ability on the lsat a few points means a shot at a near full ride at cn, which are better for ny biglaw

OK, but the opportunity cost of giving up a year of biglaw salary for the chance at a comparable scholarship at another school that will get him essentially the same job makes this a kind of silly idea.

OP, if you get a scholarship from Penn that makes the COA w/in like 50K, I don't think it'd be unjustifiable to choose Penn if you feel you'd be significantly happier spending three years in Philly, as that'd still be a reasonable debt load.

Time-value of money would clearly suggest going now rather than wait a year for a chance at a better outcome.

Not to mention, even assuming enough LSAT points to get 150k scholly at CN, COL in NYC for three additional years would be much greater than Ithaca for 3. NYU's placement this year was less than Cornell and Columbia is only 8 points ahead. Seems like a zinger for Cornell if you take that into account.

Re: Cornell / Northwestern / Duke / Penn / Retake

Posted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:51 am
by jbagelboy
If you get Penn at $105k, I'd probably do that. Otherwise Cornell.