Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student Forum

(Rankings, Profiles, Tuition, Student Life, . . . )
User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by UVA2B » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:04 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:Should of went to school in NYC,DC, or Philly. If you wanted diversity,and inclusion. Minnesota is a random choice, with no lucrative legal market. Your judgment of school attendance,based off these factors is flawed.. The best legal markets,are ironically in very diverse cities. Which is a shocking and sobering phenomenon too most TLS users..
This is a dumb post. Minneapolis isn't a huge legal market by any means, but in terms of secondary markets, it's actually a pretty strong one with a bunch of established firms and a sizable enough corporate presence with a bunch of F500 companies HQed there. What exactly constitutes the "best" legal market anyway? Size? Biglaw presence? Number of attorney jobs generally?

So yeah. Dumb.

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by URMSenator52 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:17 pm

UVA2B wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Should of went to school in NYC,DC, or Philly. If you wanted diversity,and inclusion. Minnesota is a random choice, with no lucrative legal market. Your judgment of school attendance,based off these factors is flawed.. The best legal markets,are ironically in very diverse cities. Which is a shocking and sobering phenomenon too most TLS users..
This is a dumb post. Minneapolis isn't a huge legal market by any means, but in terms of secondary markets, it's actually a pretty strong one with a bunch of established firms and a sizable enough corporate presence with a bunch of F500 companies HQed there. What exactly constitutes the "best" legal market anyway? Size? Biglaw presence? Number of attorney jobs generally?

So yeah. Dumb.
So your characterization is dumb. The OP is talking about DIVERSITY. I'm commenting about "best legal markets" for URM pupils. In terms of most diverse prestigious large firms... Since the Fed is harder to attain for LLM students. NYC and DC are the best legal markets point blank. In terms of prestige,jobs,diversity, and importance. UVA is not on the "list" for inclusion for minorities. So you not being a minority, currently attending a very conservative/border line xenophobic school. Clouds your judgment, and credibility, in respect to URM/LLM perspective. Overall in retrospect to Law School location/choice.

So yeah. Dumb.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by cavalier1138 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 7:40 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Should of went to school in NYC,DC, or Philly. If you wanted diversity,and inclusion. Minnesota is a random choice, with no lucrative legal market. Your judgment of school attendance,based off these factors is flawed.. The best legal markets,are ironically in very diverse cities. Which is a shocking and sobering phenomenon too most TLS users..
This is a dumb post. Minneapolis isn't a huge legal market by any means, but in terms of secondary markets, it's actually a pretty strong one with a bunch of established firms and a sizable enough corporate presence with a bunch of F500 companies HQed there. What exactly constitutes the "best" legal market anyway? Size? Biglaw presence? Number of attorney jobs generally?

So yeah. Dumb.
So your characterization is dumb. The OP is talking about DIVERSITY. I'm commenting about "best legal markets" for URM pupils. In terms of most diverse prestigious large firms... Since the Fed is harder to attain for LLM students. NYC and DC are the best legal markets point blank. In terms of prestige,jobs,diversity, and importance. UVA is not on the "list" for inclusion for minorities. So you not being a minority, currently attending very conservative/border line xenophobic school. Clouds your judgment, and credibility, in respect to URM/LLM perspective. Overall in retrospect to Law School location/choice.

So yeah. Dumb.
Jesus. Is there even a complete sentence in there?

For starters, the OP isn't a URM. OP is a foreign LLM student. Those are two different things. You're also grossly mischaracterizing UVA. I wouldn't say that any T13 school is all that good for diversity of the student body, but UVA is not particularly bad within that set. It's also not "borderline xenophobic".

Short version: write coherently and try to stick to subject material you understand.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29293
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:00 pm

URMSenator52 wrote:In terms of prestige,jobs,diversity, and importance. UVA is not on the "list" for inclusion for minorities. So you not being a minority, currently attending a very conservative/border line xenophobic school. Clouds your judgment, and credibility, in respect to URM/LLM perspective. Overall in retrospect to Law School location/choice.
WTF? Don't leap to conclusions about other posters.
URMSenator52 wrote:The best legal markets,are ironically in very diverse cities. Which is a shocking and sobering phenomenon too most TLS users..
This doesn't make any sense. I don't think anyone here would be shocked or sobered at all that the markets with the most legal opportunities are the most diverse...they'e major cities. (For that matter, Minneapolis is actually a lot more diverse than people assume.)

User avatar
URMSenator52

New
Posts: 73
Joined: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:50 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by URMSenator52 » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:11 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:
UVA2B wrote:
URMSenator52 wrote:Should of went to school in NYC,DC, or Philly. If you wanted diversity,and inclusion. Minnesota is a random choice, with no lucrative legal market. Your judgment of school attendance,based off these factors is flawed.. The best legal markets,are ironically in very diverse cities. Which is a shocking and sobering phenomenon too most TLS users..
This is a dumb post. Minneapolis isn't a huge legal market by any means, but in terms of secondary markets, it's actually a pretty strong one with a bunch of established firms and a sizable enough corporate presence with a bunch of F500 companies HQed there. What exactly constitutes the "best" legal market anyway? Size? Biglaw presence? Number of attorney jobs generally?

So yeah. Dumb.
So your characterization is dumb. The OP is talking about DIVERSITY. I'm commenting about "best legal markets" for URM pupils. In terms of most diverse prestigious large firms... Since the Fed is harder to attain for LLM students. NYC and DC are the best legal markets point blank. In terms of prestige,jobs,diversity, and importance. UVA is not on the "list" for inclusion for minorities. So you not being a minority, currently attending very conservative/border line xenophobic school. Clouds your judgment, and credibility, in respect to URM/LLM perspective. Overall in retrospect to Law School location/choice.

So yeah. Dumb.
Jesus. Is there even a complete sentence in there?

For starters, the OP isn't a URM. OP is a foreign LLM student. Those are two different things. You're also grossly mischaracterizing UVA. I wouldn't say that any T13 school is all that good for diversity of the student body, but UVA is not particularly bad within that set. It's also not "borderline xenophobic".

Short version: write coherently and try to stick to subject material you understand.

Jesus. Can you even read, and comprehend the first page? OP: "1. The purpose of this article is to give advice to OTHERS. So others (International Students, African American, Asian, Latino students) would know even without your so-called "smidgen of research."

2. However I would have researched, I could not have imagined that here many local JD students barely talk with international JD and LLMs, not to mention other inclusion matters."

Finally please inform me about UVA , being inclusive? While overall being not borderline xenophobic to minorities/ foreign pupils?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/pos ... -stop-him/


http://nypost.com/2017/08/12/white-nati ... -virginia/


http://wina.com/news/064460-racial-slur ... uva-dorms/

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... list-rally

Virginia, and UVA within the T-14 is the WORST school and state for LLM, and minorities pupils in my opinion. Particularity based off the above information and so much more. Which in retrospect, you have no information or facts. Overall to refute my and the OP's original argument. Strong username to post correlation: "Cavalier"...

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29293
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:17 pm

Quit with the personal attacks. Neither Cav nor UVA2B brought up Virginia or made any claims about it. It's a red herring.

User avatar
UVA2B

Gold
Posts: 3570
Joined: Sun May 22, 2016 10:48 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by UVA2B » Mon Oct 09, 2017 8:40 pm

Ok, I'll bite on addressing the assault on UVA (this will be the last time I engage on something so off-topic Nony, I promise), because I think it's an important one (although I'm fully aware that none of this will be satisfying to URMSenator). The environment at UVA and Charlottesville generally is struggling with this very issue, and it is a real one. The rallies happened this summer, and anyone here who is honest with themselves knows that those issues are inextricably tied to the university, its history, and the population surrounding the city. No one can or would dismiss that the rallies and the white supremacist movement focusing on Charlottesville are troubling and worthy of pause for any URM in picking a law school. I would never minimize what those events were, and I won't even go so far as to say "but those were outsiders, not students from UVA" because that's really unfair and wrong. It's a part of the UVA community, and it's a shame for this community and the greater nation at large. I can't speak with any amount of knowledge or experience as a URM at UVA, so you're right that I can't speak to that experience, but what I can say is that the student body isn't struggling with it because we don't want to address it. While Cville will continue to deal with this identity, UVA Law also has been centrally involved in spearheading efforts to figure out what to make of these events, how to address it for minority students at the university, and what the institution needs to do in light of those events. And while those events were traumatic for everyone, and particularly minorities, there is a ton of diversity at the school to be proud of, to include nationally award-winning chapter of BLSA, an active and engaged Lambda community, and pretty robust affinity groups of every minority group, and an administration that is hyper-focused on creating a diverse and inclusive community. The current dean is heading the university-wide committee to address the concerns of minority students in the aftermath of the rallies, and has taken great care to identify systemic issues of racism and discrimination and in the institution. Systemic issues of discrimination are insanely tricky to completely fix, as they are so insidiously hard to define and eliminate, so it will be a continuous and on-going process. But it is at the forefront of the minds of the administration, I promise you.

Back to your slightly less off-topic point about the Minneapolis market. First, it's insanely stupid to compare Minneapolis to NYC and DC for a number of reasons. The sheer number of jobs in those markets dwarfs Minneapolis, so obviously going to a school that places well in NYC or DC would give more opportunities for a minority applicant, but that says nothing of how "good" the Minneapolis market is for a minority student who actually wants to work in Minneapolis. Most (I would say all, but I can't say that with complete confidence) of the major firms in Minneapolis participate in the Minnesota Minority Recruiting Conference, and while I can't guarantee they'll all hire out of the conference from year to year, there is a genuine desire to hire qualified minority candidates. Diverse hiring is genuinely embraced in the Minneapolis market, and while there are less opportunities for a diverse candidate relative to larger markets, I would caution to say that Minneapolis isn't a good market for minority hiring. You could make an argument for similarly sized markets that have a larger diverse population having more opportunities for minorities than Minneapolis (Detroit, St. Louis, etc.), but I've never seen any statistics to actually support that. diversity in the legal profession generally is a problem that is pretty well-identified, if not actually fully addressed, but that's not unique to Minneapolis either.

Ok, I'm done because this is pretty ridiculous off-topic, considering this was entirely about the UMN, not any of the stuff I just addressed. I promise to not engage you on this any further.

Slippin' Jimmy

Silver
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:56 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by Slippin' Jimmy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:29 am

And this cancerous thread refuses to die.

User avatar
A. Nony Mouse

Diamond
Posts: 29293
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2012 11:51 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by A. Nony Mouse » Sun Oct 15, 2017 8:28 am

Slippin' Jimmy wrote:And this cancerous thread refuses to die.
Well, it kind of had until you bumped it.

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Slippin' Jimmy

Silver
Posts: 892
Joined: Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:56 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by Slippin' Jimmy » Sun Oct 15, 2017 12:51 pm

A. Nony Mouse wrote:
Slippin' Jimmy wrote:And this cancerous thread refuses to die.
Well, it kind of had until you bumped it.
Well I'm an idiot who can't read post dates.

BL2017

New
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:17 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by BL2017 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 9:55 am

I apologize for the necro. I read through this thread and know it was controversial. However, it is relevant to my interests. If OP or any other URMs from Minnesota can inbox me to talk more about the environment for minorities at UMN, I would I appreciate it. I am seriously considering attending but want to know what to expect as a Latino male. Looking at UMNs 2017 509 report, not a single black or Latino male matriculated for this fall's entering class. That fact, along with these anecdotes, are concerning to me.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by cavalier1138 » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:03 am

BL2017 wrote:I apologize for the necro. I read through this thread and know it was controversial. However, it is relevant to my interests. If OP or any other URMs from Minnesota can inbox me to talk more about the environment for minorities at UMN, I would I appreciate it. I am seriously considering attending but want to know what to expect as a Latino male. Looking at UMNs 2017 509 report, not a single black or Latino male matriculated for this fall's entering class. That fact, along with these anecdotes, are concerning to me.
FYI, the OP was speaking to their experience as a foreign LLM student, so they probably aren't going to be the best resource for you on that particular question. The thread was mainly "controversial" because it's pretty clear they didn't do a lick of research before attending.

You, on the other hand, took the time to look at the school's demographics, because you're concerned about diversity. I guess the question is whether you want to tough it out for 3 years as the only Latino at the school and then work in the Twin Cities area. Although, to be frank, that area isn't diverse by comparison to any other urban environment; it's only diverse if you compare it to the rest of the state.

User avatar
Menchie

New
Posts: 65
Joined: Fri Sep 22, 2017 5:37 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by Menchie » Fri Dec 15, 2017 11:27 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
BL2017 wrote:I apologize for the necro. I read through this thread and know it was controversial. However, it is relevant to my interests. If OP or any other URMs from Minnesota can inbox me to talk more about the environment for minorities at UMN, I would I appreciate it. I am seriously considering attending but want to know what to expect as a Latino male. Looking at UMNs 2017 509 report, not a single black or Latino male matriculated for this fall's entering class. That fact, along with these anecdotes, are concerning to me.
FYI, the OP was speaking to their experience as a foreign LLM student, so they probably aren't going to be the best resource for you on that particular question. The thread was mainly "controversial" because it's pretty clear they didn't do a lick of research before attending.

You, on the other hand, took the time to look at the school's demographics, because you're concerned about diversity. I guess the question is whether you want to tough it out for 3 years as the only Latino at the school and then work in the Twin Cities area. Although, to be frank, that area isn't diverse by comparison to any other urban environment; it's only diverse if you compare it to the rest of the state.
OP was actually a JD student. I just want to add that international students from racially or ethnically homogenous countries might not even anticipate the significance of diversity. An international student who has never had the experience of being a racial or ethnic minority would likely not expect to encounter subtle racial bias or lack of inclusion once they began to study abroad.

Register now!

Resources to assist law school applicants, students & graduates.

It's still FREE!


caic517

New
Posts: 32
Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 1:10 am

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by caic517 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:08 pm

Menchie wrote:OP was actually a JD student. I just want to add that international students from racially or ethnically homogenous countries might not even anticipate the significance of diversity. An international student who has never had the experience of being a racial or ethnic minority would likely not expect to encounter subtle racial bias or lack of inclusion once they began to study abroad.
This is an important point. This can play a big factor in how US students interact with their international classmates, but it also influences how international students interact with and perceive the actions of their US peers. Going from the majority to the minority, especially if the international student is not white, can very likely increase the sensitivity of the international student to the actions of those around him/her.

Differences in culture could also be playing a role here. Throughout this thread, the only information I grasped about the OP was that he/she is a JD, is an international student, and is warning others about UMN not being an inclusive school (and also not diverse) based on OP's personal experiences and the claimed experiences of others. Understandably, OP wishes to remain anonymous and does not give us details, and so the information that we can center our discussion around is limited. As such, we know very little about OP. What kind of ethnic and cultural background, prior experience in the US, and other factors that may influence OP's perception of the school.

Because OP has not disclosed much about him/herself, while sounding extremely critical of UMN's inclusiveness, OP presents him/herself in a negative light. I started off sharing and understanding OP's unfortunate experience, but as the thread went on, OP just kept chipping away at his/her credibility.

OP: If you want to prove your point or persuade someone to see as you see, do it the right way. Putting aside your classroom/social experiences, you are still at a great law school. Apply what you've learned to convince TLS readers that you're speaking the truth.

User avatar
xRON MEXiCOx

Diamond
Posts: 18136
Joined: Mon Oct 07, 2013 8:32 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by xRON MEXiCOx » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:26 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:...were a lot of people going to Minnesota expecting a diverse population?
i believe minneapolis has a very large refugee community.

User avatar
sublime

Diamond
Posts: 17385
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by sublime » Sun Dec 17, 2017 3:59 pm

xRON MEXiCOx wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:...were a lot of people going to Minnesota expecting a diverse population?
i believe minneapolis has a very large refugee community.
Yea, iirc Minneapolis is pretty diverse.

ETA: 64% non-Hispanic white.

User avatar
cavalier1138

Moderator
Posts: 8007
Joined: Fri Mar 25, 2016 8:01 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by cavalier1138 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:16 pm

sublime wrote:
xRON MEXiCOx wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:...were a lot of people going to Minnesota expecting a diverse population?
i believe minneapolis has a very large refugee community.
Yea, iirc Minneapolis is pretty diverse.

ETA: 64% non-Hispanic white.
As mentioned earlier, that's only diverse compared to the rest of the state. Compared to other urban areas in the nation, Minneapolis is pretty damn white. It's a massive disparity between Minneapolis and (for example) Milwaukee, which isn't all that far away.

Get unlimited access to all forums and topics

Register now!

I'm pretty sure I told you it's FREE...


User avatar
sublime

Diamond
Posts: 17385
Joined: Sun Mar 10, 2013 12:21 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by sublime » Sun Dec 17, 2017 5:22 pm

cavalier1138 wrote:
sublime wrote:
xRON MEXiCOx wrote:
cavalier1138 wrote:...were a lot of people going to Minnesota expecting a diverse population?
i believe minneapolis has a very large refugee community.
Yea, iirc Minneapolis is pretty diverse.

ETA: 64% non-Hispanic white.
As mentioned earlier, that's only diverse compared to the rest of the state. Compared to other urban areas in the nation, Minneapolis is pretty damn white. It's a massive disparity between Minneapolis and (for example) Milwaukee, which isn't all that far away.

Wow. Milwaukee is way more diverse than I realized. Upon looking around more, I probably agree with you. My opinion was probably influenced more than it should have been by staying for a bit in a non-white area there.

lichtblickz

New
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by lichtblickz » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:30 am

cavalier1138 wrote:
BL2017 wrote:I apologize for the necro. I read through this thread and know it was controversial. However, it is relevant to my interests. If OP or any other URMs from Minnesota can inbox me to talk more about the environment for minorities at UMN, I would I appreciate it. I am seriously considering attending but want to know what to expect as a Latino male. Looking at UMNs 2017 509 report, not a single black or Latino male matriculated for this fall's entering class. That fact, along with these anecdotes, are concerning to me.
FYI, the OP was speaking to their experience as a foreign LLM student, so they probably aren't going to be the best resource for you on that particular question. The thread was mainly "controversial" because it's pretty clear they didn't do a lick of research before attending.

You, on the other hand, took the time to look at the school's demographics, because you're concerned about diversity. I guess the question is whether you want to tough it out for 3 years as the only Latino at the school and then work in the Twin Cities area. Although, to be frank, that area isn't diverse by comparison to any other urban environment; it's only diverse if you compare it to the rest of the state.
I am wondering if you have read the thread thoroughly. I stated for more than one time that I am a JD student. And yes I am a foreign student so a mastery of English and understanding of football are quite essential in the community here.

lichtblickz

New
Posts: 41
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2017 6:36 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by lichtblickz » Mon Dec 18, 2017 12:36 am

BL2017 wrote:I apologize for the necro. I read through this thread and know it was controversial. However, it is relevant to my interests. If OP or any other URMs from Minnesota can inbox me to talk more about the environment for minorities at UMN, I would I appreciate it. I am seriously considering attending but want to know what to expect as a Latino male. Looking at UMNs 2017 509 report, not a single black or Latino male matriculated for this fall's entering class. That fact, along with these anecdotes, are concerning to me.
I personally think the large Minneapolis population is quite welcoming to minorities though the Latino population is not as large as Caucasian and African American.

I sometimes play soccer with Latino friends (very nice skills) in a soccer field nearby but not know any of them in the legal community. As you said I have not seen Latino male students at the law school but I think Latino female students get along with people here very well.

BL2017

New
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Nov 24, 2017 6:17 pm

Re: Think Twice about UMN as an International Student/Ethnical Student

Post by BL2017 » Mon Dec 18, 2017 10:39 am

lichtblickz wrote:
BL2017 wrote:I apologize for the necro. I read through this thread and know it was controversial. However, it is relevant to my interests. If OP or any other URMs from Minnesota can inbox me to talk more about the environment for minorities at UMN, I would I appreciate it. I am seriously considering attending but want to know what to expect as a Latino male. Looking at UMNs 2017 509 report, not a single black or Latino male matriculated for this fall's entering class. That fact, along with these anecdotes, are concerning to me.
I personally think the large Minneapolis population is quite welcoming to minorities though the Latino population is not as large as Caucasian and African American.

I sometimes play soccer with Latino friends (very nice skills) in a soccer field nearby but not know any of them in the legal community. As you said I have not seen Latino male students at the law school but I think Latino female students get along with people here very well.
Thank you for your perspective! It's comforting that Latina students get along well with others at UMN.

Communicate now with those who not only know what a legal education is, but can offer you worthy advice and commentary as you complete the three most educational, yet challenging years of your law related post graduate life.

Register now, it's still FREE!


Post Reply

Return to “Choosing a Law School”