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Hikikomorist wrote:Lay prestige generally is a good topic, but I'm especially interested in the intersection between lay prestige and social class.
We're having the dumbest conversation ever but I love it. My dad is very average/mediocre and a good metric for this: I told him I really wanted NYU and he was like 'huh? why?' and then I told him that Penn waitlisted me and I was bummed and he was like 'huh? who?' but when I said I got into Cornell with a fat scholly he was like 'OMG THEY'RE AMAZING YOU SHOULD GO'. I mean I'm happy with it and all but...lolvcap180 wrote:Of those schools, the lay prestige meter reads as follows:Po$eidon wrote:Definitely doesn't beat Berkeley (which has huge lay prestige) or Chicago (which has pretty significant lay prestige).goldenbear2020 wrote:I agree NYU has low lay prestige, but it should beat at least Chicago, Virginia, Berkeley, and maybe Penn (State?).RParadela wrote:Lol NYU has 0 lay prestige. NYU has the least lay prestige out of the T13 IMOvcap180 wrote:the lay prestige meter, which is the only thing that matters, reads as follows:RedPurpleBlue wrote:I'm not sure if you're serious, but I'll bite. Prestige is marginally based on employment statistics. Harvard Law produces presidents, Attorney Generals, Supreme Court Justices, U.S. Representatives, and Senators. UVA and Duke can't even compete in those regards. Combined they have 2 SCOTUS justices (one of whom didn't even graduate UVA and the other served on the court over 70 years ago), two presidents (Wilson didn't even graduate from UVA Law, and Nixon resigned as to not get impeached), and a few Reps./Senators I imagine, but those are few in number compared to Harvard. Plus, Harvard Law gets the added bonus of the prestige produced by the Harvard UG (where some of the smartest/wealthiest students have gone for 100s of years), and Harvard Grad (where some of the most preeminent scholars, doctors, and business people have gone). UVA and Duke have what? Strong graduate history programs, okay business schools, and the latter has a good medical school. That's about it. Harvard Law also gets a ton of great PI/Gov't jobs that are prestigious that don't fit inside the really limited (and thus dumb) BL + FC box that TLS salivates over.TLS_Dreamer wrote:
But why aren't UVA and Duke more prestigious than Harvard? If the former schools give you better employment options, aren't people who say Harvard is better just objectively wrong? Why do people give Harvard higher standing? It just makes no sense to me.
I think it's pretty clear why everyone views Harvard as objectively better, regardless of what a couple points on BL + FC employment percentages say.
Harvard >>> Duke > NYU > UVA
berk>chicago>NYU>Penn>UVA... Incidentally, Michigan would be last among the t13.
This is not my opinion; I have polled a representative sample of laymen.
while we're talkin' about pops, my father was more impressed with NYU than Duke, but he texted me about gulc's demise the day it happened, so he's a bit of a rank slutPo$eidon wrote:
PS I totally agree with your rigorously crafted lay ranking system
Pic of Po$eidon's dad:Po$eidon wrote: We're having the dumbest conversation ever but I love it. My dad is very average/mediocre and a good metric for this: I told him I really wanted NYU and he was like 'huh? why?' and then I told him that Penn waitlisted me and I was bummed and he was like 'huh? who?' but when I said I got into Cornell with a fat scholly he was like 'OMG THEY'RE AMAZING YOU SHOULD GO'. I mean I'm happy with it and all but...lol
Accuraterpupkin wrote:Pic of Po$eidon's dad:Po$eidon wrote: We're having the dumbest conversation ever but I love it. My dad is very average/mediocre and a good metric for this: I told him I really wanted NYU and he was like 'huh? why?' and then I told him that Penn waitlisted me and I was bummed and he was like 'huh? who?' but when I said I got into Cornell with a fat scholly he was like 'OMG THEY'RE AMAZING YOU SHOULD GO'. I mean I'm happy with it and all but...lol
LOL!rpupkin wrote:Pic of Po$eidon's dad:Po$eidon wrote: We're having the dumbest conversation ever but I love it. My dad is very average/mediocre and a good metric for this: I told him I really wanted NYU and he was like 'huh? why?' and then I told him that Penn waitlisted me and I was bummed and he was like 'huh? who?' but when I said I got into Cornell with a fat scholly he was like 'OMG THEY'RE AMAZING YOU SHOULD GO'. I mean I'm happy with it and all but...lol
Emory: 26.4% + 3.8% = 30.2%Moneytrees wrote:Any info for Emory, ND and Minnesota?
I like how the Upper Midwest's version of Hastings keeps getting ranked in the low 20s for some reason.cannibal ox wrote:Minnesota: 17% + 5.3% = 22.3%
To follow up on this, only 369 members of the Class of 2018 participated in EIW (OCI). There were 485 total graduates of the Class of 2016. Assuming the flood of transfers remains steady each year, this means ~120 NYU students do not participate in OCI every year.cavalier1138 wrote:TLS_Dreamer wrote:If you add BL+FC+PI+Gov Duke and NYU are very close. I don't remember the exact #scavalier1138 wrote:How are Duke and NYU "equal" in PI/gov placement?TLS_Dreamer wrote:Why though? Their BL+Clerk is a good bit higher. Even ud you include PI and Gov they're just like equal. Why is NYU even regarded more highly?cavalier1138 wrote:Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.TLS_Dreamer wrote:What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?
NYU has a lower BL+FC number because a very large number of people go into PI.
No. Duke sends maybe 5% of its class into PI/gov each year. NYU sends 18-20%. There's only a 3% difference in BL/FC numbers, and NYU has over twice as many students.
Duke's a great school. But it's not going to displace NYU because of BL/FC placement. NYU has always had lower biglaw placement numbers because of PI.
Probably thinking that 60 hour weeks suckWild Card wrote:To follow up on this, only 369 members of the Class of 2018 participated in EIW (OCI). There were 485 total graduates of the Class of 2016. Assuming the flood of transfers remains steady each year, this means ~120 NYU students do not participate in OCI every year.cavalier1138 wrote:TLS_Dreamer wrote:If you add BL+FC+PI+Gov Duke and NYU are very close. I don't remember the exact #scavalier1138 wrote:How are Duke and NYU "equal" in PI/gov placement?TLS_Dreamer wrote:Why though? Their BL+Clerk is a good bit higher. Even ud you include PI and Gov they're just like equal. Why is NYU even regarded more highly?cavalier1138 wrote:Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.TLS_Dreamer wrote:What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?
NYU has a lower BL+FC number because a very large number of people go into PI.
No. Duke sends maybe 5% of its class into PI/gov each year. NYU sends 18-20%. There's only a 3% difference in BL/FC numbers, and NYU has over twice as many students.
Duke's a great school. But it's not going to displace NYU because of BL/FC placement. NYU has always had lower biglaw placement numbers because of PI.
I have no idea WTF these 120 people are thinking, but that's a significant proportion of NYU (approximately 25 percent) that doesn't want to get anywhere near biglaw.
maybe they've already secured a summer offer through networking in their home markets?Wild Card wrote:To follow up on this, only 369 members of the Class of 2018 participated in EIW (OCI). There were 485 total graduates of the Class of 2016. Assuming the flood of transfers remains steady each year, this means ~120 NYU students do not participate in OCI every year.cavalier1138 wrote:TLS_Dreamer wrote:If you add BL+FC+PI+Gov Duke and NYU are very close. I don't remember the exact #scavalier1138 wrote:How are Duke and NYU "equal" in PI/gov placement?TLS_Dreamer wrote:Why though? Their BL+Clerk is a good bit higher. Even ud you include PI and Gov they're just like equal. Why is NYU even regarded more highly?cavalier1138 wrote:Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.TLS_Dreamer wrote:What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?
NYU has a lower BL+FC number because a very large number of people go into PI.
No. Duke sends maybe 5% of its class into PI/gov each year. NYU sends 18-20%. There's only a 3% difference in BL/FC numbers, and NYU has over twice as many students.
Duke's a great school. But it's not going to displace NYU because of BL/FC placement. NYU has always had lower biglaw placement numbers because of PI.
I have no idea WTF these 120 people are thinking, but that's a significant proportion of NYU (approximately 25 percent) that doesn't want to get anywhere near biglaw.
How do you know they didn't just shrink class size?Wild Card wrote:To follow up on this, only 369 members of the Class of 2018 participated in EIW (OCI). There were 485 total graduates of the Class of 2016. Assuming the flood of transfers remains steady each year, this means ~120 NYU students do not participate in OCI every year.cavalier1138 wrote:TLS_Dreamer wrote:If you add BL+FC+PI+Gov Duke and NYU are very close. I don't remember the exact #scavalier1138 wrote:How are Duke and NYU "equal" in PI/gov placement?TLS_Dreamer wrote:Why though? Their BL+Clerk is a good bit higher. Even ud you include PI and Gov they're just like equal. Why is NYU even regarded more highly?cavalier1138 wrote:Assuming you're serious, no chance at all.TLS_Dreamer wrote:What are the odds that Duke (77.7%) and UVA (76.9%) pass NYU (74.5%) in the rankings in the next few years?
NYU has a lower BL+FC number because a very large number of people go into PI.
No. Duke sends maybe 5% of its class into PI/gov each year. NYU sends 18-20%. There's only a 3% difference in BL/FC numbers, and NYU has over twice as many students.
Duke's a great school. But it's not going to displace NYU because of BL/FC placement. NYU has always had lower biglaw placement numbers because of PI.
I have no idea WTF these 120 people are thinking, but that's a significant proportion of NYU (approximately 25 percent) that doesn't want to get anywhere near biglaw.
Copy this table for the OPNebby wrote:
Needs to fix the order. NYU should be below Stanford and Cornell. Also needs a wider gap between WUSTL and Texascannibal ox wrote:Here is the full list, formatted to match the OP, that includes all t30 schools (and some high scoring non t30 schools)
Copy this table for the OPNebby wrote:
School: (biglaw* + fed clerk)/total class size [C/O 2015 %] (difference)
Columbia: 82.5% [79.2%] (+3.3)
Chicago: 78.1% [82.7%] (-4.6%)
Duke: 77.7% [74.5%] (+3.2)
Penn: 77.1% [76.8%] (+0.3)
UVA: 77.0% [70.3%] (+6.7)
Harvard: 75.9% [70.8%] (+5.1%)
NYU: 74.4% [67.0%] (+7.4%)
Stanford: 74.8% [77.9%] (-3.1%)
Cornell: 74.5% [66.7%] (+7.8)
Yale: 72.9% [72.3%] (+0.6)
Northwestern: 68.7% [69.4%] (-0.7%)
Michigan: 66.4% [61.0%] (+5.4%)
Boalt: 61.5% [56.4%] (+5.1%)
Vanderbilt: 56.6% [47%] (+9.6%)
GULC: 51.5% [44%] (+7.5%)
WUSTL: 45.1% [33.8%] (+11.3)
Texas 45% [42%] (+3%)
UCLA: 42.7% [45.0%] (-2.3%)
Fordham: 41.9%
USC: 40.0% [37.5%] (+2.5)
BC: 39.6% [41.3%] (-1.7%)
Illinois: 37%
Notre Dame: 36.6% [40.2%] (-3.6%)
BU: 36.2% [34.6%] (+1.6)
George Washington: 35.5% [35.5] (+0.0%)
Emory: 30.3% [29.9%] (+0.4)
UC Irvine: 27.9% [28.2%] (-0.3%)
Washington & Lee: 26.3% [23.0%] (+3.3)
Iowa: 26.0% [21.2%] (+4.8)
Ohio State: 25.7% [20.4%] (+5.3)
Georgia: 23.7% [19.9%] (+3.8)
Alabama: 23.4% [23.6%] (-0.2%)
Wake Forest: 22.7%
Minnesota: 22.35% [24.18%] (-1.83%)
UC Hastings: 21.6%
Indiana: 21.4% [18.7%] (+2.7)
Tulane: 21.1%
Wisconsin: 18.5% [14.2%] (+4.3)
Arizona State: 11.0% [10.9%] (+0.1)
Cool it there Tom Buchananvcap180 wrote:Hikikomorist wrote:Lay prestige generally is a good topic, but I'm especially interested in the intersection between lay prestige and social class.
These concepts are inextricably linked. Your social class is determined by the lay prestige of the insititution(s) at which you studied. Money and job outcomes are secondary. You can't buy class.
The incoming class was 426 for C/O 2018 with 43 transfers while 5 transferred out (with 8 "other" attrition) for 456 if there's no other attrition. Class size did go down, but that's still 19% or 87 people who didn't do OCI.TLS_Dreamer wrote:How do you know they didn't just shrink class size?Wild Card wrote:
To follow up on this, only 369 members of the Class of 2018 participated in EIW (OCI). There were 485 total graduates of the Class of 2016. Assuming the flood of transfers remains steady each year, this means ~120 NYU students do not participate in OCI every year.
I have no idea WTF these 120 people are thinking, but that's a significant proportion of NYU (approximately 25 percent) that doesn't want to get anywhere near biglaw.
Copy this table for the OPNebby wrote:
FYI this is closer than the initial number, but still a tiny bit off: 31 BL +7 fed clerks = 38/184 = 20.7% [12.3%] [+8.4%]cannibal ox wrote:Here is the full list, formatted to match the OP, that includes all t50 schools (and some high scoring non t50 schools)
Copy this table for the OPNebby wrote:
Wake Forest: 20.1% [12.3%] (+7.8%)
Biglaw is 16 + 9 + 5 = 30AT9 wrote:FYI this is closer than the initial number, but still a tiny bit off: 31 BL +7 fed clerks = 38/184 = 20.7% [12.3%] [+8.4%]cannibal ox wrote:Here is the full list, formatted to match the OP, that includes all t50 schools (and some high scoring non t50 schools)
Copy this table for the OPNebby wrote:
Wake Forest: 20.1% [12.3%] (+7.8%)
