Law School Decision? Forum

[nhegde]

Hi all,
Figured I'd throw this question out here and see if I can get some feedback. A little bit about me first, I guess: I'm a non-URM with an ~3.0 GPA and a 162 LSAT who hails from St. Louis. I'm also one of those fortunates who does not have to worry about incurring debt in attending law school so COL isn't a huge concern for me. I've spent the majority of my life in STL so I was looking to get out of the city for a while before heading back home and finding an attorney job in some capacity.

I've cast a pretty wide net in terms of the schools I've applied to, but knowing that my intent is to practice in the St. Louis area I figured it would be best to keep my options to the Midwest. So far I've received an offer from U of Wisconsin for a $42,000 total scholarship and just received admittance into U of Iowa and U of Illinois, Urbana Champaign and am still waiting to hear back on scholarship offers (should I get them at all). I've also been waitlisted at WUSTL, although, like I said, I'm looking to leave the city for a time, and I doubt my chances are that great to get off the WL anyways. University of Missouri, Columbia is also an option.

For a time I considered Boston College and William & Mary although I figured those schools, while very nice, would do very little to get me a job around the Midwest/STL. All that being said, does anyone have any advice on where I should go? (An LSAT retake is out of the question at this point, before anyone asks. I've used my three attempts within this year, unfortunately.)

[cavalier1138]

Is your goal region "the Midwest" or St. Louis? Because Wisconsin will get you a job in the former, but not the latter.

If your goal is St. Louis, retake and reapply to get a full scholarship at WashU (or at the very least, SLU). No point in applying elsewhere, because those are literally the only two schools that place people in St. Louis, and they're both sinfully easy to score full rides at. I know, I know, you "don't have to worry about debt" (which means you're very unconcerned about either your savings or wasting your parents money), and you really want to go out of state for a bit. But St. Louis is a small, relatively insular market. If you want to work there, you need to go to school there.

[Ronan]

If you want to work in St. Louis, you should to go to school in Missouri. Law school isn't the time to explore the country and go to some random school because you want to get away--that was undergrad.

Since retake isn't an option, reapply to SLU if that's not already an option and just go there with a big scholarship. There's absolutely no reason for you to go to a Wisconsin, Iowa, or Illinois if you already know you want to be in St. Louis.

[guynourmin]

Go work out of state for a few years to satisfy that itch, then retake the LSAT and go to wustl.

[nhegde]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. From what I glean the move seems to be to stick to STL. One last question I had was about maybe transferring into Wash U. I figured I could possibly attend Mizzou for my 1L, get cheap in state tuition (and possibly a scholarship) and then jump ship. Does this seem like a viable option? I know Wash U has been fairly generous with transfer scholarships in recent years.

[guynourmin]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. From what I glean the move seems to be to stick to STL. One last question I had was about maybe transferring into Wash U. I figured I could possibly attend Mizzou for my 1L, get cheap in state tuition (and possibly a scholarship) and then jump ship. Does this seem like a viable option? I know Wash U has been fairly generous with transfer scholarships in recent years.

You have no reason to expect you'll do well enough at Mizzou to be able to transfer to WUSTL, and you cannot rely on what WUSTL has done in past years to predict what it will do in the future (look at what 167 were getting in the past two years compared to now!).

[Ronan]

Idk the St Louis market well, but Mizzou for very cheap doesn't appear to be a terrible option. They have a somewhat okay employment score. And if you have ties to STL originally, you may be at an advantage.

But i still think the STL schools are the best options.

[nhegde]

Thanks for the feedback, guys. From what I glean the move seems to be to stick to STL. One last question I had was about maybe transferring into Wash U. I figured I could possibly attend Mizzou for my 1L, get cheap in state tuition (and possibly a scholarship) and then jump ship. Does this seem like a viable option? I know Wash U has been fairly generous with transfer scholarships in recent years.

You have no reason to expect you'll do well enough at Mizzou to be able to transfer to WUSTL, and you cannot rely on what WUSTL has done in past years to predict what it will do in the future (look at what 167 were getting in the past two years compared to now!).

Yeah I know I'd be taking a pretty big risk in going that route, but hey I believe enough in my own abilities to think there's a chance. I did already go undergrad at SLU fwiw so my parents are pretty loathe to have me go there for law school lol. Are you very familiar with the STL market? I do have connections to the area (I did live there for 15 years of my life) and in the legal market through friends and my dad. Just wondering how difficult it is to get an in in the market.

[cavalier1138]

*sigh*

This may sound too harsh, but you'll thank me later.

Yeah I know I'd be taking a pretty big risk in going that route, but hey I believe enough in my own abilities to think there's a chance.

Why?

Why on earth would you believe that the same abilities which netted you a very mediocre GPA/LSAT are going to get you the exceptional result of a transfer (with a scholarship, no less!) to WashU? Why would you believe, prior to meeting any of your potential classmates, that you're already going to be better at taking law school exams than they are?

I'm all for self-confidence, but what you're showing here is a completely unjustified arrogance. You cannot, under any circumstances, plan on transferring out of a school. You have to be happy graduating from the school you matriculate to.

You're young. Take some time to work. Travel. Do something with your life. Then come back, retake the LSAT, and go to a school that will actually get you what you want, instead of settling for terrible options because you've imposed a dumb limitation on yourself.

[nhegde]

*sigh*

This may sound too harsh, but you'll thank me later.

Yeah I know I'd be taking a pretty big risk in going that route, but hey I believe enough in my own abilities to think there's a chance.

Why?

Why on earth would you believe that the same abilities which netted you a very mediocre GPA/LSAT are going to get you the exceptional result of a transfer (with a scholarship, no less!) to WashU? Why would you believe, prior to meeting any of your potential classmates, that you're already going to be better at taking law school exams than they are?

I'm all for self-confidence, but what you're showing here is a completely unjustified arrogance. You cannot, under any circumstances, plan on transferring out of a school. You have to be happy graduating from the school you matriculate to.

You're young. Take some time to work. Travel. Do something with your life. Then come back, retake the LSAT, and go to a school that will actually get you what you want, instead of settling for terrible options because you've imposed a dumb limitation on yourself.

Hahaha no hard feelings at all! I appreciate honest advice, especially when it comes to a decision like this. I guess my decision comes with a few caveats. I do want to get the law school ball rolling as soon as possible since I know talking to friends of mine that the longer you're out of school, the harder it is to get back into it.

Furthermore when it comes to a retake I really am feeling a lot of anxiety about having to take it again in the future. I feel like I basically crapped out since I got a 156 my first one taking it, a 162 the second time, and then really just had a bad day my third time that ended up dropping me down to a 157. It was definitely confidence shaking.

As far as my GPA goes, I think motivation and my initial major, more than anything else, dropped me down. I had a really brutal first year as pre-Med before I changed majors and worked my way back up. But I don't want to come across as arrogant or presumptuous. Law school will be competitive no matter where I go, and the quality of people there I'm sure will be high. I certainly don't take it for granted to just waltz into a Mizzou tier law school, outperform everyone and get handed a fat scholarship to come home.

I'm not opposed to working for the year or so and retaking/reapplying (provided I can convince the LSAC to take the test again within that time frame). Really it just comes down to selling that idea to my parents. At the end of the day, they're the ones who have been kind enough to pay for it after all.

[cavalier1138]

A few things:

I do want to get the law school ball rolling as soon as possible since I know talking to friends of mine that the longer you're out of school, the harder it is to get back into it.

That's just flat-out wrong. Your friends don't know what they're talking about, and it's damaging advice to give someone who would benefit from a year off.

Really it just comes down to selling that idea to my parents. At the end of the day, they're the ones who have been kind enough to at for it after all.

Show your parents the job outcomes from Mizzou vs. the job outcomes from WashU. And ask them whether they'd rather spend their money. Then ask them whether they'd rather spend their money at all if you could just get a scholarship and go for free.

But at the end of the day, you need to make the right decision for yourself. If your parents don't fund you, you can take on a moderate amount of debt from WashU and pay it off quite easily, given the COL in St. Louis. Your parents aren't the ones who have to live with this decision.

[nhegde]

A few things:

I do want to get the law school ball rolling as soon as possible since I know talking to friends of mine that the longer you're out of school, the harder it is to get back into it.

That's just flat-out wrong. Your friends don't know what they're talking about, and it's damaging advice to give someone who would benefit from a year off.

Really it just comes down to selling that idea to my parents. At the end of the day, they're the ones who have been kind enough to at for it after all.

Show your parents the job outcomes from Mizzou vs. the job outcomes from WashU. And ask them whether they'd rather spend their money. Then ask them whether they'd rather spend their money at all if you could just get a scholarship and go for free.

But at the end of the day, you need to make the right decision for yourself. If your parents don't fund you, you can take on a moderate amount of debt from WashU and pay it off quite easily, given the COL in St. Louis. Your parents aren't the ones who have to live with this decision.

Thanks again. I think what I'll do is try to send Wash U a LOCI within this upcoming week and see if I get response. From what I understand, deposits are due within the next couple of weeks, so hopefully I can a response before then. If not I may just go through with taking a year off. Get some work experience under my belt, make some more connections in the St. Louis area, and talk it out with my parents.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

A few things:

I do want to get the law school ball rolling as soon as possible since I know talking to friends of mine that the longer you're out of school, the harder it is to get back into it.

That's just flat-out wrong. Your friends don't know what they're talking about, and it's damaging advice to give someone who would benefit from a year off.

Really it just comes down to selling that idea to my parents. At the end of the day, they're the ones who have been kind enough to at for it after all.

Show your parents the job outcomes from Mizzou vs. the job outcomes from WashU. And ask them whether they'd rather spend their money. Then ask them whether they'd rather spend their money at all if you could just get a scholarship and go for free.

But at the end of the day, you need to make the right decision for yourself. If your parents don't fund you, you can take on a moderate amount of debt from WashU and pay it off quite easily, given the COL in St. Louis. Your parents aren't the ones who have to live with this decision.

Thanks again. I think what I'll do is try to send Wash U a LOCI within this upcoming week and see if I get response. From what I understand, deposits are due within the next couple of weeks, so hopefully I can a response before then. If not I may just go through with taking a year off. Get some work experience under my belt, make some more connections in the St. Louis area, and talk it out with my parents.

Wait, you were waitlisted at WashU so the seat deposit deadline doesn't really apply to you...they'll usually accept people off the waitlist after the deadline when they see how many accepted students decided not to attend.

However, I do feel like your plans to sit this cycle out and work is the right call. It's really a win-win in practically every aspect. Best of luck with WashU and in the future! Hopefully you'll be accepted this year

[trebekismyhero]

If you want to be in St. Louis long term, WashU, UIUC, Mizzou and SLU are the main schools you should look at. The latter two only go on a full ride, the former two only go on a big scholarship. (I know you said you don't have to worry about debt, but always better to save the money).

Definitely a good idea to work and scratch that desire to live somewhere else first and then retake and reapply to law school in a a year or two.