Cardozo ($$$$) vs Fordham ($$) Forum

[Dave118]

My stats are 166/3.9
I am at a point in my life where I'm unable to retake the LSAT. I'm waiting on some T-14 but I doubt the ones that I'll get into (if any) will be viable options for me.
I got full scholarships to Cardozo, Seton Hall, St. John's and a few more schools ranked similarly. From those schools I pretty much decided Cardozo would be the best fit for me. I also got $35k to Fordham.
I haven't decided that I want to do big law but I would love to keep my options open (at a reasonable price).
A lot of people have told me that with $45k to Fordham it would be an obvious choice over Cardozo but not with only $35k. Others have told me that even Fordham sticker is better than Cardozo with full scholarship (mostly Fordham graduates).

Opinions please?

[guynourmin]

I don't think Fordham is work 60k+ more than Dozo, but biglaw does seem significantly more likely out of Fordham. What are your non-BL goals?

[Dave118]

I don't think Fordham is work 60k+ more than Dozo, but biglaw does seem significantly more likely out of Fordham. What are your non-BL goals?

To post a shingle on my basement door. Seriously, if I don't do big law I can't justify spending $60k on Fordham. I'm asking specifically what Fordham is worth more for big law. Thanks!

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

I don't think Fordham is work 60k+ more than Dozo, but biglaw does seem significantly more likely out of Fordham. What are your non-BL goals?

To post a shingle on my basement door. Seriously, if I don't do big law I can't justify spending $60k on Fordham. I'm asking specifically what Fordham is worth more for big law. Thanks!

Not sure I understand your question. Are you asking how much more money you would need to get from Fordham to justify going there?

[existentialcrisis]

Explain why you can't retake. 1-2 more points on the lsat and you're looking at $$$ from the lower t14. If you want big law then I don't understand how you can justify not doing this.

[Ferrisjso]

Explain why you can't retake. 1-2 more points on the lsat and you're looking at $$$ from the lower t14. If you want big law then I don't understand how you can justify not doing this.

The elitism in this post is unreal. The kid has a goddamm 166! He shouldn't need to answer to no one about his LSAT!

[existentialcrisis]

Explain why you can't retake. 1-2 more points on the lsat and you're looking at $$$ from the lower t14. If you want big law then I don't understand how you can justify not doing this.

The elitism in this post is unreal. The kid has a goddamm 166! He shouldn't need to answer to no one about his LSAT!

This is so fucking ridiculous. It's clear that this dude wants big law and it's clear that by doing a tiny bit better on the test he can go to a school for very cheap that can almost guarantee that for him. I'm failing to see how pointing this out makes me an elitist. I didn't say he needs 170+, 167 puts him at cornell's median lsat and above their 75th gpa.

I am one of the people that didn't retake when I should have and now I'm paying way more money than I needed to for law school. I very much regret it.

[potus]

Fordham will give you a better shot at Big Law and I'd say it's worth the money with good scholly. Definitely finish negotiating with Fordham. I don't think sticker Fordham is worth it, however. But if you're "keeping your options open" and feel like you're not committed entirely and going to explore a bit, a full tuition to Cardozo is just about fine. Retaking for an increase will open GULC, Cornell, etc. and always an option although you've said you are not likely to do so.

[uion1715]

Here is 167/3.8-4.0 for MyLSN for this cycle, BTW. Looks good from NYU down with some $$$ to boot in the T14. Literally one more point is what you need.

http://myLSN.info/nysqhr_1-13.jpg

[dbalkaran]

I don't think Fordham with a $35k scholarship is terrible. They do fairly well at some pretty good firms in NY. I'd go Fordham here.

Fordham
Skadden - 14 Partners, 18 Associates
Davis Polk - 3 Partners, 16 Associates
Paul Weiss - 3 Partners, 20 Associates

Just took three random firms from NYC to give you an idea of their representation in BigLaw. If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine. I get that retake is not an option for everyone, but just know that with your GPA a 170+ or even a 168+ will open lots of doors. I wish I had a GPA like yours.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

[dbalkaran]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

[Gitaroo_Dude]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

First off, LOL, I did not post that Trump thing. Someone here is having fun with the code or something. Try typing out Tom Brady and see what happens.

Second, I've got not problem with Fordham; totally defensible choice. My point is that no one should plan to be top of their class. Especially at a school like Fordham, that will have a lot of bright kids gunning hard for the top 25% to land biglaw. The orthodoxy here is to plan on being median, which at Fordham means dicey biglaw prospects.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Explain why you can't retake. 1-2 more points on the lsat and you're looking at $$$ from the lower t14. If you want big law then I don't understand how you can justify not doing this.

The elitism in this post is unreal. The kid has a goddamm 166! He shouldn't need to answer to no one about his LSAT!

Yes, a 166 is a great score. However, if OP wants a better chance at BigLaw, OP should try to go to a better school...especially with that tremendous GPA. That GPA should allow OP to go law school (especially Fordham) for free.

[dbalkaran]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

First off, LOL, I did not post that Trump thing. Someone here is having fun with the code or something. Try typing out Tom Trump Supporter Brady and see what happens.

Second, I've got not problem with Fordham; totally defensible choice. My point is that no one should plan to be top of their class. Especially at a school like Fordham, that will have a lot of bright kids gunning hard for the top 25% to land biglaw. The orthodoxy here is to plan on being median, which at Fordham means dicey biglaw prospects.

That's true...I was pretty surprised at how high some of the scores were for people that got rejected from Fordham were this year. They're definitely trying to step their game up.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

Fordham is a great school, don't take me wrong. But a 3.9/with a couple of more points on the LSAt should get you into NYU, which is a 5x better school, particularly for OP's Biglaw goals. It's also a much more safer school as opposed to Fordham, where you might be okay if you're at the top of your class, but why take that chance when you don't have to?

[existentialcrisis]

Explain why you can't retake. 1-2 more points on the lsat and you're looking at $$$ from the lower t14. If you want big law then I don't understand how you can justify not doing this.

The elitism in this post is unreal. The kid has a goddamm 166! He shouldn't need to answer to no one about his LSAT!

Yes, a 166 is a great score. However, if OP wants a better chance at BigLaw, OP should try to go to a better school...especially with that tremendous GPA. That GPA should allow OP to go law school (especially Fordham) for free.

This. Again, I don't understand how this thread isn't a chorus of retakes. 1 point would make a world of difference.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

First off, LOL, I did not post that Trump thing. Someone here is having fun with the code or something. Try typing out Tom Trump Supporter Brady and see what happens.

Second, I've got not problem with Fordham; totally defensible choice. My point is that no one should plan to be top of their class. Especially at a school like Fordham, that will have a lot of bright kids gunning hard for the top 25% to land biglaw. The orthodoxy here is to plan on being median, which at Fordham means dicey biglaw prospects.

That's true...I was pretty surprised at how high some of the scores were for people that got rejected from Fordham were this year. They're definitely trying to step their game up.

Yeah. There was a girl on here last cycle who was choosing between $100k from Cornell or a full from 'Dozo (pretty sure it was 'Dozo, but might have been Fordham).

EVERYONE told her to take Cornell. But she was worried about being a tiny fish in a big pond at Cornell, and thought 'Dozo would be easier. So she took 'Dozo's offer over everyone screaming at her to not make that mistake. She came back later and said she'd made a huge mistake. How her classmates were actually really bright and intelligent, and were all working their asses off to secure good employment.

Point being a lot of these schools are gonna have bright people; the main difference is how much leeway they'll offer to landing a biglaw job in NYC.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

Explain why you can't retake. 1-2 more points on the lsat and you're looking at $$$ from the lower t14. If you want big law then I don't understand how you can justify not doing this.

The elitism in this post is unreal. The kid has a goddamm 166! He shouldn't need to answer to no one about his LSAT!

Yes, a 166 is a great score. However, if OP wants a better chance at BigLaw, OP should try to go to a better school...especially with that tremendous GPA. That GPA should allow OP to go law school (especially Fordham) for free.

This. Again, I don't understand how this thread isn't a chorus of retakes. 1 point would make a world of difference.

Exactly...with a 3.9/166 OP has a shot at Penn (fully OP applied there). If you're going to pay that much money for law school, you might as well pay it to Penn rather than Fordham.

[Thomas Hagan, ESQ.]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

First off, LOL, I did not post that Trump thing. Someone here is having fun with the code or something. Try typing out Tom Trump Supporter Brady and see what happens.

Second, I've got not problem with Fordham; totally defensible choice. My point is that no one should plan to be top of their class. Especially at a school like Fordham, that will have a lot of bright kids gunning hard for the top 25% to land biglaw. The orthodoxy here is to plan on being median, which at Fordham means dicey biglaw prospects.

That's true...I was pretty surprised at how high some of the scores were for people that got rejected from Fordham were this year. They're definitely trying to step their game up.

Yeah. There was a girl on here last cycle who was choosing between $100k from Cornell or a full from 'Dozo (pretty sure it was 'Dozo, but might have been Fordham).

EVERYONE told her to take Cornell. But she was worried about being a tiny fish in a big pond at Cornell, and thought 'Dozo would be easier. So she took 'Dozo's offer over everyone screaming at her to not make that mistake. She came back later and said she'd made a huge mistake. How her classmates were actually really bright and intelligent, and were all working their asses off to secure good employment.

Point being a lot of these schools are gonna have bright people; the main difference is how much leeway they'll offer to landing a biglaw job in NYC.

Jeez.....that's brutal.

[dbalkaran]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

First off, LOL, I did not post that Trump thing. Someone here is having fun with the code or something. Try typing out Tom Trump Supporter Brady and see what happens.

Second, I've got not problem with Fordham; totally defensible choice. My point is that no one should plan to be top of their class. Especially at a school like Fordham, that will have a lot of bright kids gunning hard for the top 25% to land biglaw. The orthodoxy here is to plan on being median, which at Fordham means dicey biglaw prospects.

That's true...I was pretty surprised at how high some of the scores were for people that got rejected from Fordham were this year. They're definitely trying to step their game up.

Yeah. There was a girl on here last cycle who was choosing between $100k from Cornell or a full from 'Dozo (pretty sure it was 'Dozo, but might have been Fordham).

EVERYONE told her to take Cornell. But she was worried about being a tiny fish in a big pond at Cornell, and thought 'Dozo would be easier. So she took 'Dozo's offer over everyone screaming at her to not make that mistake. She came back later and said she'd made a huge mistake. How her classmates were actually really bright and intelligent, and were all working their asses off to secure good employment.

Point being a lot of these schools are gonna have bright people; the main difference is how much leeway they'll offer to landing a biglaw job in NYC.

Wow. What a surprise that everyone in law school is bright and hardworking. I would be kicking myself if I did that.

[tinyvessels]

If you graduate at the top of your class you should be just fine.

To be fair, that's the equivalent of saying "If you land David Johnson, Demarco Murray, Tom Trump Supporter Brady, Gronk, and Julio Jones in your draft, you're set for FF". I mean, it could happen, but you can't plan for things to fall that way.

Lol I like how you slipped that Trump supporter comment in there. I'm not saying Fordham is going to give him the best shot at BigLaw, but Fordham is very well respected in New York and gives him more than a decent shot at BigLaw. Definitely better than any of the other schools he mentioned. I already said if it was me I'd retake because personally I feel like with that GPA he's got a shot at NYU or another T14, but if he doesn't want to retake that's his choice. That isn't always an option for everyone though I'm sure I'll get plenty of flack for that from other TLS members

First off, LOL, I did not post that Trump thing. Someone here is having fun with the code or something. Try typing out Tom Trump Supporter Brady and see what happens.

Second, I've got not problem with Fordham; totally defensible choice. My point is that no one should plan to be top of their class. Especially at a school like Fordham, that will have a lot of bright kids gunning hard for the top 25% to land biglaw. The orthodoxy here is to plan on being median, which at Fordham means dicey biglaw prospects.

That's true...I was pretty surprised at how high some of the scores were for people that got rejected from Fordham were this year. They're definitely trying to step their game up.

Yeah. There was a girl on here last cycle who was choosing between $100k from Cornell or a full from 'Dozo (pretty sure it was 'Dozo, but might have been Fordham).

EVERYONE told her to take Cornell. But she was worried about being a tiny fish in a big pond at Cornell, and thought 'Dozo would be easier. So she took 'Dozo's offer over everyone screaming at her to not make that mistake. She came back later and said she'd made a huge mistake. How her classmates were actually really bright and intelligent, and were all working their asses off to secure good employment.

Point being a lot of these schools are gonna have bright people; the main difference is how much leeway they'll offer to landing a biglaw job in NYC.

I kind of feel bad, but lol at people that think you won't have competition from other bright students just because you 'lower your standards' and go to a lesser ranked school. A good amount of people will self select into lower ranked schools for money, location, personal reasons, etc. and could potentially have done just as well if they went to a t14.

But she went to law school for free anyway, so meh.

[Dave118]

Thanks all for responding.

I understand retaking would give me a shot at NYU etc but it would mean pushing off law school another year, which I'm unable to do.

Just to clarify, I'm undecided if I'd like to go into big law or open a small firm. Should I choose to open a small firm then obviously Cardozo with full scholarship is the better option. Likewise, if I was absolutely set on big law then I think $60k is a reasonable investment. However, I'm not set either way. Is it worth $60k to keep my options open, or can I expect to keep my options open by working my ass off in Cardozo? (Obviously I understand that I'm never guaranteed as everyone in Cardozo is smart and working towards the same goal but the same can be said about Fordham and yet the consensus is that spending money on Fordham is worth it if I'm set on big law.)

[Johann]

fordham at 60k total COA? id do fordham.

if youre thinking about biglaw at all, gotta max your chances there and fordham puts you at much better chances.

if youre willing to gun hard at cardozo, could be worth it. a full scholly means youre much smarter than your peers and you should be able to at least guarantee yourself top 25% just based on work ethic alone. if you get the concepts at all, can type fast, and bust your ass, youve got a good chance at top 10% (75% id estimate).

[A. Nony Mouse]

Explain why you can't retake. 1-2 more points on the lsat and you're looking at $$$ from the lower t14. If you want big law then I don't understand how you can justify not doing this.

The elitism in this post is unreal. The kid has a goddamm 166! He shouldn't need to answer to no one about his LSAT!

Seriously, stop this line of criticism. That's not elitism; it's assessing chances. It's a perfectly great LSAT. That doesn't mean it will necessarily get him where he wants to go.