QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision) Forum

[Ferrisjso]

I've already spent the last few years working part-time and summers on political campaigns. Their is no room for advancement there, especially in NYC, I remember going to a young dems panel a few years ago where they basically were lecturing us on how we should wait our turn and be happy even if we never got a chance to run for menial local office. I'm not ok with that, and the campaigns down here don't want paid staffers they want volunteers, which is nice when you're a freshman in high school but after doing it 3 or 4 times, you want more.

Fixed that for you.

Also, I love that you want to run for office, but you don't want to run for "menial office". Do you think that going to law school just opens the doors for a run on the Senate?

Not to mention politics requires strong ties, which is why I'm worried that spending college in CT isn't enough

This is true, but even with that I like my chances in CT more than I do in NY. I feel like saying you came to a state for college and fell in love with it and never left is a good enough response to put any carpetbaggar allegations to bed(for legal jobs also). By the time I go legal job hunting I will have spent the vast majority of over 7 years in the state.

[cavalier1138]

Well in NY, running for office is alot more complicated because you basically have a three tiered government, the city council and elected citywide office actually mean something in NYC. City council seats require more votes than some congressional districts, and even becoming one of the top handful of candidates for one of these seats is a real challenge. It's a completely different political setup than just about anywhere in the country, also I wanted to start out running for congress or state senate which in NY would be impossible to do.

Wow. I had no idea how complex politics was. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I never would have known any of that if I hadn't been awake for at least 2 hours of my high school government class.

If you want to run for office (Odin help us all), you should run for office. Going to law school isn't going to accelerate that process.

[Ferrisjso]

Well in NY, running for office is alot more complicated because you basically have a three tiered government, the city council and elected citywide office actually mean something in NYC. City council seats require more votes than some congressional districts, and even becoming one of the top handful of candidates for one of these seats is a real challenge. It's a completely different political setup than just about anywhere in the country, also I wanted to start out running for congress or state senate which in NY would be impossible to do.

Wow. I had no idea how complex politics was. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I never would have known any of that if I hadn't been awake for at least 2 hours of my high school government class.

If you want to run for office (Odin help us all), you should run for office. Going to law school isn't going to accelerate that process.

I need a job beforehand anyway, I'll also need a job if that doesn't work out. I don't have a wealthy family, running for office can't be my day job(and it is very probable I initially lose).

[GoLandcrabs]

Well in NY, running for office is alot more complicated because you basically have a three tiered government, the city council and elected citywide office actually mean something in NYC. City council seats require more votes than some congressional districts, and even becoming one of the top handful of candidates for one of these seats is a real challenge. It's a completely different political setup than just about anywhere in the country, also I wanted to start out running for congress or state senate which in NY would be impossible to do.

Wow. I had no idea how complex politics was. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I never would have known any of that if I hadn't been awake for at least 2 hours of my high school government class.

If you want to run for office (Odin help us all), you should run for office. Going to law school isn't going to accelerate that process.

I need a job beforehand anyway, I'll also need a job if that doesn't work out. I don't have a wealthy family, running for office can't be my day job(and it is very probable I initially lose).

I hope you are aware that literally my first job in politics was paid. So I don't know why you say you can't get paid without a JD. Yeah I started as an intern, but in competitive districts (which you might need to be prepared to move to) you get promoted very fast.

I don't know why you want to work in politics. Pay is trash, hours are trash, lots of the workers are in huge student debt. My boss worked BigLaw hours for 10% of the pay and no benefits.

Also i don't know how, precisely, you plan on working on campaigns if you can't drive. I was in the car 90% of the time I was working.

Actually now that I think about how do you plan on running for office at all without a car? You have to move around the district!

[jjcorvino]

Well in NY, running for office is alot more complicated because you basically have a three tiered government, the city council and elected citywide office actually mean something in NYC. City council seats require more votes than some congressional districts, and even becoming one of the top handful of candidates for one of these seats is a real challenge. It's a completely different political setup than just about anywhere in the country, also I wanted to start out running for congress or state senate which in NY would be impossible to do.

Wow. I had no idea how complex politics was. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I never would have known any of that if I hadn't been awake for at least 2 hours of my high school government class.

If you want to run for office (Odin help us all), you should run for office. Going to law school isn't going to accelerate that process.

I need a job beforehand anyway, I'll also need a job if that doesn't work out. I don't have a wealthy family, running for office can't be my day job(and it is very probable I initially lose).

I hope you are aware that literally my first job in politics was paid. So I don't know why you say you can't get paid without a JD. Yeah I started as an intern, but in competitive districts (which you might need to be prepared to move to) you get promoted very fast.

I don't know why you want to work in politics. Pay is trash, hours are trash, lots of the workers are in huge student debt. My boss worked BigLaw hours for 10% of the pay and no benefits.

Also i don't know how, precisely, you plan on working on campaigns if you can't drive. I was in the car 90% of the time I was working.

Actually now that I think about how do you plan on running for office at all without a car? You have to move around the district!

This exactly. I got a paid campaign job at 20 while in school. I actually took off a semester of school to work full time. It was a great experience, but I worked 80+ hours a week (last few months closer to 100) with two days off the 8 months I worked. I was paid $33k salary. It is awful hours, and terrible pay. If yo really want to do it though, it is incredibly easy to advance. There are mid 20 year olds running entire states for presidential campaigns. You can be a campaign manager in local/state races at 30. You can be a chief of staff on the Hill by your late 20s or early 30s. Why would you ever pursue a JD to do campaign or political work? At most you need a bachelors.

As for actually running for office, there are really two distinct paths. One group of people in office have worked on campaigns their whole lives. They are involved locally with campaigns and issue areas they believe in, they hold meetings, organize events, and eventually are well known enough in their communities to get elected to local office (and sometimes move up to more prominence from there). The other group in office are people that are independently wealthy. These are the local business owners/leaders. They get enough wealth/power/connections that they fund a campaign and get elected. If you are a local business owner maybe you get elected to be a state senator. If you own Microsoft you can probably be President if you wanted to.

The point is, a JD doesn't make your goals easier. If you want to be a lawyer, do that. If you just want politics, either work in politics or do something like open a business. Being a local attorney will not help you along the way.

[cavalier1138]

^ But what do these guys know compared to a senior in college with a pocket full of dreams?

[Ferrisjso]

Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.

[waldorf]

Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.

He might be harsher than you'd like, but he's trying to help you. You are making a TERRIBLE decision if you debt-finance either one of these schools. Terrible. I really don't understand why you don't get that.

[trebekismyhero]

Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.

Go to Cardozo. It is the only one that makes sense

[cavalier1138]

Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.

It's not ageist as much as it's don't-know-what-the-fuck-you're-doing-ist. The fact that you're young and inexperienced probably exacerbates the issue, but your complete inability to objectively assess important factors in making a life-altering decision is what really seals the deal.

And this is less for you and more for any poor 0L reading this thread who might think that you should be taken seriously.

[Gitaroo_Dude]

Hey man, I think you're pretty set on going to UConn at this point and nothing we say will change your mind.

So one thing I'd really urge you to do is begin reaching out to alumni and current students. And not just the student ambassadors the school will put you in touch with, because they're not really indicative of how most students will do while at UConn. You need to start talking to people to get an idea of what sort of outcomes they've had and what you can expect. Basically add some context to the hiring data. Try and find some people who followed the career path you want to pursue. Ask them how they did it. Maybe find some people in politics with a UConn JD (there must be someone like that) and ask them if the JD was worth getting. I glean that you don't have much substantive work experience, so you really need to begin networking now if you're gonna have a chance. Hopefully talking to alums will allow you to reflect and maybe delay law school for a bit; but even if it doesn't you'll have a better idea what you're about to get yourself into.

Also, you really need to learn to drive over the summer and get a license. Even if you don't plan on driving while attending school, it's a life skill you're gonna want to have.

[dbalkaran]

Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.

I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.

[Johann]

and as for why uconn more than cardozo, i just took the poster ahead of me at their word that uconn had a larger part time program of people already working jobs/having a career

Cardozo had 80 PT matriculants and UConn had 27, BTW.

alright then. as i said, was just taking the poster ahead of me at their word.

Well, that was a mistake. It was also entirely ridiculous to think that even though no 0L knows how unbelievably terrible the law is (it's soooo bad, you guys, that's why no one actually becomes a lawyer for more than a year), apparently all the 0Ls attending UConn are ahead of the game and have predetermined that they want to go to law school to get a coveted "JD Advantage" job.

1/3 of my law school class left the law for JD advantage within 5 years of graduating (and some before even graduating!). benefits, no billable hours (work downtime), and 40 hour work weeks look pretty appealing when they still pay enough that you dont have to sacrifice much in terms of life if you can still afford vacations and eating out etc, which they can.

youre a 0L. ive been through this.

[A. Nony Mouse]

cav's not actually a 0L (pretty sure anyway).

[Johann]

This is true, but even with that I like my chances in CT more than I do in NY. I feel like saying you came to a state for college and fell in love with it and never left is a good enough response to put any carpetbaggar allegations to bed(for legal jobs also). By the time I go legal job hunting I will have spent the vast majority of over 7 years in the state.

i was an outsider to my current market and always used the story that i came here for ls and fell in love and am committed to the market because x and y and ive never gotten a second question about it (for law jobs, not politics obvi). its a wide open world and people move. people will be flattered to say you love their city and will believe you if you give them a reason. if you can sell it all, it will be fine.

[Johann]

Well in NY, running for office is alot more complicated because you basically have a three tiered government, the city council and elected citywide office actually mean something in NYC. City council seats require more votes than some congressional districts, and even becoming one of the top handful of candidates for one of these seats is a real challenge. It's a completely different political setup than just about anywhere in the country, also I wanted to start out running for congress or state senate which in NY would be impossible to do.

Wow. I had no idea how complex politics was. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I never would have known any of that if I hadn't been awake for at least 2 hours of my high school government class.

If you want to run for office (Odin help us all), you should run for office. Going to law school isn't going to accelerate that process.

I need a job beforehand anyway, I'll also need a job if that doesn't work out. I don't have a wealthy family, running for office can't be my day job(and it is very probable I initially lose).

I hope you are aware that literally my first job in politics was paid. So I don't know why you say you can't get paid without a JD. Yeah I started as an intern, but in competitive districts (which you might need to be prepared to move to) you get promoted very fast.

I don't know why you want to work in politics. Pay is trash, hours are trash, lots of the workers are in huge student debt. My boss worked BigLaw hours for 10% of the pay and no benefits.

Also i don't know how, precisely, you plan on working on campaigns if you can't drive. I was in the car 90% of the time I was working.

Actually now that I think about how do you plan on running for office at all without a car? You have to move around the district!

maybe ferris is motivated by more than money and wants to do public service?

[Johann]

Hey man, I think you're pretty set on going to UConn at this point and nothing we say will change your mind.

So one thing I'd really urge you to do is begin reaching out to alumni and current students. And not just the student ambassadors the school will put you in touch with, because they're not really indicative of how most students will do while at UConn. You need to start talking to people to get an idea of what sort of outcomes they've had and what you can expect. Basically add some context to the hiring data. Try and find some people who followed the career path you want to pursue. Ask them how they did it. Maybe find some people in politics with a UConn JD (there must be someone like that) and ask them if the JD was worth getting. I glean that you don't have much substantive work experience, so you really need to begin networking now if you're gonna have a chance. Hopefully talking to alums will allow you to reflect and maybe delay law school for a bit; but even if it doesn't you'll have a better idea what you're about to get yourself into.

Also, you really need to learn to drive over the summer and get a license. Even if you don't plan on driving while attending school, it's a life skill you're gonna want to have.

this is good constructive advice.

[BigZuck]

and as for why uconn more than cardozo, i just took the poster ahead of me at their word that uconn had a larger part time program of people already working jobs/having a career

Cardozo had 80 PT matriculants and UConn had 27, BTW.

alright then. as i said, was just taking the poster ahead of me at their word.

Well, that was a mistake. It was also entirely ridiculous to think that even though no 0L knows how unbelievably terrible the law is (it's soooo bad, you guys, that's why no one actually becomes a lawyer for more than a year), apparently all the 0Ls attending UConn are ahead of the game and have predetermined that they want to go to law school to get a coveted "JD Advantage" job.

1/3 of my law school class left the law for JD advantage within 5 years of graduating (and some before even graduating!). benefits, no billable hours (work downtime), and 40 hour work weeks look pretty appealing when they still pay enough that you dont have to sacrifice much in terms of life if you can still afford vacations and eating out etc, which they can.

youre a 0L. ive been through this.

Dude stop pulling stuff out of your butt. 1/3 of your class? It's so dumb to just make stuff up and state it with such authority. We get that it's pathological but please try and think before you type.

Enough is enough dude, seriously.

[GoLandcrabs]

Well in NY, running for office is alot more complicated because you basically have a three tiered government, the city council and elected citywide office actually mean something in NYC. City council seats require more votes than some congressional districts, and even becoming one of the top handful of candidates for one of these seats is a real challenge. It's a completely different political setup than just about anywhere in the country, also I wanted to start out running for congress or state senate which in NY would be impossible to do.

Wow. I had no idea how complex politics was. Thanks for opening my eyes to that. I never would have known any of that if I hadn't been awake for at least 2 hours of my high school government class.

If you want to run for office (Odin help us all), you should run for office. Going to law school isn't going to accelerate that process.

I need a job beforehand anyway, I'll also need a job if that doesn't work out. I don't have a wealthy family, running for office can't be my day job(and it is very probable I initially lose).

I hope you are aware that literally my first job in politics was paid. So I don't know why you say you can't get paid without a JD. Yeah I started as an intern, but in competitive districts (which you might need to be prepared to move to) you get promoted very fast.

I don't know why you want to work in politics. Pay is trash, hours are trash, lots of the workers are in huge student debt. My boss worked BigLaw hours for 10% of the pay and no benefits.

Also i don't know how, precisely, you plan on working on campaigns if you can't drive. I was in the car 90% of the time I was working.

Actually now that I think about how do you plan on running for office at all without a car? You have to move around the district!

maybe ferris is motivated by more than money and wants to do public service?

Maybe. But those hours just really get to you, and unlike BigLaw, you can't soak your tears with money.

[Johann]

Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.

I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.

hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.

[BigZuck]

Update Cardozo gave me 3k a year more.

Cavalier please stop, I have no tolerance for that ageist BS.

I really think he's just trying to help. He's being blunt, but if you're actually just a senior in undergrad then I really think you should wait to go to law school because you seem all over the place.

hes being a complete prick about it. why would you ever listen to someone that is being a prick thinking they have your best interests at heart? so of course hes not listening to him (its the only rational decision to ignore someone being a prick claiming to be trying to help you).

i think ferris is a little bit over the map (so are lots of people - including myself). if ferris has done his homework on the stats and understands the risk but needs to do this for himself, you have to move on and start being constructive within the parameters being set.

This is also silly. Sometimes the parameters need to be torn down and reconstructed from the ground up.

[Johann]

and as for why uconn more than cardozo, i just took the poster ahead of me at their word that uconn had a larger part time program of people already working jobs/having a career

Cardozo had 80 PT matriculants and UConn had 27, BTW.

alright then. as i said, was just taking the poster ahead of me at their word.

Well, that was a mistake. It was also entirely ridiculous to think that even though no 0L knows how unbelievably terrible the law is (it's soooo bad, you guys, that's why no one actually becomes a lawyer for more than a year), apparently all the 0Ls attending UConn are ahead of the game and have predetermined that they want to go to law school to get a coveted "JD Advantage" job.

1/3 of my law school class left the law for JD advantage within 5 years of graduating (and some before even graduating!). benefits, no billable hours (work downtime), and 40 hour work weeks look pretty appealing when they still pay enough that you dont have to sacrifice much in terms of life if you can still afford vacations and eating out etc, which they can.

youre a 0L. ive been through this.

Dude stop pulling stuff out of your butt. 1/3 of your class? It's so dumb to just make stuff up and state it with such authority. We get that it's pathological but please try and think before you type.

Enough is enough dude, seriously.

yes 1/3. its a rough estimate and true value might be between 25-40%. you should go look at the beyond the JD study if you truly disagree with me. this is the last time ill respond to you on this site unless you have a statistic. i know my class. i stay in touch with the legal community VERY WELL because its a genuine interest of mine. you think this stuff is in bad faith but everytime you come at me i bring up the stats and am ALWAYS right. i wont waste anymore time doing that. i just took an hour out of my day as a practicing attorney in a week ill bill close to 80 to help people and give them insight about the community. its apparent at this point ive been doing this for years that i do this in good faith (since i normally always go get the data to prove you wrong). anyways, im here to help 0Ls, not fight with law students.

happy to answer any questions for ferris.

[BigZuck]

You don't have any data, it's all based on the 50000 attorneys who practice inside your butt. Or that you graduated with. Or that you regularly go bowling with. Or whatever. It's made up fluff nonsense. Stop that. Please. Please stop that.

As for the study, yes, I've seen multiple people point out how you misread that thing. I agree that that doesn't need to be rehashed.

All I'm saying is don't make stuff up dude. It's silly billyness at its finest. You are the absolute silliest of geese and it's just too silly at this point. I bill a lot too and I also find it very tiresome when you just blatantly lie to push your agenda. Please stop doing that.

[Johann]

sorry i realize i said 1/3 of my class left law for JD advantage on a second read which is not what i meant to say. 1/3 of my class has left the law. although many of those for jd advantage, some have been for completely non-JD related things. if zuck was beefing about the 1/3 and JD-adv stat, fine fair point. if he was beefing about 1/3 of my class leaving the law, he's wrong. my original point to cavalier was mainly law sucks and is not compensated high enough to warrant the suckiness for many many people, which equates to about 1/3 of my class.

[Johann]

FYI - beyond the JD study showed 15% of 2000 law class (including all schools even top law schools) left law completely within 3 years. which falls pretty squarely within my 5 year range of 25-40%. given it was a lower ranked school so people might not have the same sunk costs and investments, im gonna say my 33% stat is pretty accurate but may use 25% from now on to be on the safe side.