QU v Cardozo(Ferrisjso's decision) Forum

[Johann]

since the third semester in college ive been obssessed with law school

So, since your sophomore spring you've been obsessed with law school. It's now your senior spring. So for two years you've been obsessed with law school. That is a REALLY short amount of time. Don't rush into this decision for no reason. You're likely going to end up in crushing debt without a legal job and without a path into politics. If you go to UConn and DO get a legal job, you won't be able to pay off your loans.

Here's my advice: If you want to get to Connecticut, retake until your score gets you a full ride at UConn. And learn how to drive because I don't understand how you could live in Connecticut off of a college campus without a car, let alone a driver's license.

Give better advice. The debt is serviceable under income based repayment plans of which their are many including government and public service loan FORGIVENESS. You may not know how to service 100k of debt on a 50k salary, but the laws provide for EXACTLY this situation. Also, incomes go up over the course of a legal career. Can't judge a 30 year investment on the first year ROI.

If there is a reason for Ferris not to go to uconn it's because he thinks he can do better on the lsat and will put the work in to do better which will greatly improve his chance at CERTAIN job outcomes.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Not everyone wants to bank on repayment plans or worry about the tax bomb, Johann.

Also re: median income - we have no idea how many end up there, right? Kind of like we don't know how many end up median in their law school class?

I think you need to stop fighting over whether people end up hating the law because I don't think that was actually a point of contention at all. And whether those who are still in law is fine with their decision doesn't really go to whether there are more people who leave from lower-ranked schools vs. higher-ranked (or why is it even pertinent here?).

[Ferrisjso]

The repayment plan is my last last resort option and If I have to rely on it i do not think I will be attending(it's not that the deal isn't good it is, I just don't want to be tied down at some job because of it, mobility and making progress fast is very important to me which is a huge part of why I'm not taking a year off). I actually would rather try to actually service it(there's few things I'm confident about, but I'm confident I can live on a much smaller budget than you people) and pay it off within 3-4 years. I do not think it will come to that, either my parents will sell the house(which they've hinted at doing but are shying away from now that this is an actual conversation)or I will be able to beg my grandparents for money(they have it but they're very fiscally conservative like that). I'm at the "you know if i don't get support I'm not doing this" phase of the venture and I believe that they'll bite. Ultimately I really believe I want to go to law school, but you guys have made it clear I should think over it some more(not thinking of taking a year off, I'm either going or I'm not, I would be driven mad waiting years to retake) and even though I tend to not want to give you the satisfaction of seeing me have doubt, here it is, enjoy it.

To the people from outside the city who are mystified how someone can't drive(if I lived in a rural area I'd have no problem driving but in NYC driving is basically an anxiety trap even for people without anxiety which I have, and CT's not as much of an improvement as you'd think) it's called google mapping a location and walking on the side of the road. If you can dodge traffic in NYC you can dodge a car or 2 every several minutes. Not saying it's fun or anything but it's doable unless we're talking highways. I also can scooter, although I'm aware that would make me look like a fucking idiot.

[A. Nony Mouse]

Oh, dude, I really honestly wish you well, but you really can't bank on being able to walk along the side of the road to get around. You just can't. Leaving aside situations where you need to take a highway, or go somewhere for work that's too far to walk in time, you will get killed or arrested or mugged. (Not obviously on a regular basis, but you will if you make this a life plan.)

[waldorf]

even though I tend to not want to give you the satisfaction of seeing me have doubt, here it is, enjoy it.

To the people from outside the city who are mystified how someone can't drive(if I lived in a rural area I'd have no problem driving but in NYC driving is basically an anxiety trap even for people without anxiety which I have, and CT's not as much of an improvement as you'd think) it's called google mapping a location and walking on the side of the road. If you can dodge traffic in NYC you can dodge a car or 2 every several minutes. Not saying it's fun or anything but it's doable unless we're talking highways. I also can scooter, although I'm aware that would make me look like a fucking idiot.

Oh man does this thread deliver or what.

[blueapple]

To the people from outside the city who are mystified how someone can't drive(if I lived in a rural area I'd have no problem driving but in NYC driving is basically an anxiety trap even for people without anxiety which I have, and CT's not as much of an improvement as you'd think) it's called google mapping a location and walking on the side of the road. If you can dodge traffic in NYC you can dodge a car or 2 every several minutes. I also can scooter, although I'm aware that would make me look like a fucking idiot.

Guess what? You can learn to drive outside of the city.

Nobody is suggesting that the issue with not being able to drive is "dodging cars." We are suggesting that if you have to go somewhere you might struggle if you have to walk to get there. How do you plan to get from school to an internship if it's 15 miles away? What if you have to travel for work and aren't able to rent a car? How do you plan to get around as a politician in the future if you can't drive?

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'll say that dodging cars may not be THE issue, but it's AN issue.

[blueapple]

I'll say that dodging cars may not be THE issue, but it's AN issue.

Eh, I don't really think so. It's not like because I have a driver's license I never walk anywhere. I don't see how knowing how to drive changes the fact that you have to look out for cars.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I'll say that dodging cars may not be THE issue, but it's AN issue.

Eh, I don't really think so. It's not like because I have a driver's license I never walk anywhere. I don't see how knowing how to drive changes the fact that you have to look out for cars.

Oh, I just meant that if you really do walk everywhere you are likely to run across that one car you can't dodge. Like, if you consistently walk on the side of the road as a way of getting around someday you are going to get hit. (same may be true of car accidents in NY, but car v. car gives you much better odds than car v. human.)

[UVA2B]

I'll say that dodging cars may not be THE issue, but it's AN issue.

Eh, I don't really think so. It's not like because I have a driver's license I never walk anywhere. I don't see how knowing how to drive changes the fact that you have to look out for cars.

I think it's more about the plan to walk everywhere, when you'll likely need to go places that require highways or really busy streets. No one is saying, I don't think, that not knowing how to drive means you won't know how to avoid getting hit by a car, but entirely relying on walking everywhere and dodging cars everywhere is an issue that's worth considering. Taking a quick jaunt across a major highway or walking down it isn't guaranteed suicide, but it sure puts you in a precarious spot.

ETA: or what nony said

[Nebby]

The repayment plan is my last last resort option and If I have to rely on it i do not think I will be attending(it's not that the deal isn't good it is, I just don't want to be tied down at some job because of it, mobility and making progress fast is very important to me which is a huge part of why I'm not taking a year off). I actually would rather try to actually service it(there's few things I'm confident about, but I'm confident I can live on a much smaller budget than you people) and pay it off within 3-4 years. I do not think it will come to that, either my parents will sell the house(which they've hinted at doing but are shying away from now that this is an actual conversation)or I will be able to beg my grandparents for money(they have it but they're very fiscally conservative like that). I'm at the "you know if i don't get support I'm not doing this" phase of the venture and I believe that they'll bite. Ultimately I really believe I want to go to law school, but you guys have made it clear I should think over it some more(not thinking of taking a year off, I'm either going or I'm not, I would be driven mad waiting years to retake) and even though I tend to not want to give you the satisfaction of seeing me have doubt, here it is, enjoy it.

To the people from outside the city who are mystified how someone can't drive(if I lived in a rural area I'd have no problem driving but in NYC driving is basically an anxiety trap even for people without anxiety which I have, and CT's not as much of an improvement as you'd think) it's called google mapping a location and walking on the side of the road. If you can dodge traffic in NYC you can dodge a car or 2 every several minutes. Not saying it's fun or anything but it's doable unless we're talking highways. I also can scooter, although I'm aware that would make me look like a fucking idiot.

COA for UConn was $135k?

Assuming an additional $10k of interest accrued over three years, that means your beginning debt will be $145k upon graduation. $145k with a blended interest rate of 6.8% on a standard 10 year repayment plan would require monthly payments of 1,668.66/month. To pay it off in 4 years you'd need to pay 3,458.77/month. Data derived from: http://www.finaid.org/calculators/scrip ... yments.cgi

The only entry-level job that you could get that could service that debt is biglaw. ~15% of UConn grads last year went into biglaw. https://www.lstreports.com/schools/uconn/jobs/

You're gonna have to get on income-based repayment, Ferris.

[mjb447]

you will get killed . . . [n]ot obviously on a regular basis

Phew. Getting killed on a regular basis is the WORST.

I agree that this driving issue is problematic, both from a not-getting-killed perspective and a taking-advantage-of-opportunities-and-focusing-on-law-school perspective. Also, I know that you don't use heat, but having to walk everywhere in Connecticut between about late November and mid-March sounds miserable. Better hope the sidewalks and shoulders are clear!

[guynourmin]

I actually would rather try to actually service it(there's few things I'm confident about, but I'm confident I can live on a much smaller budget than you people) and pay it off within 3-4 years.

There's no mathematical way you service a 135k debt load in 3-4 years on the typical UCONN salary, you know that, right? Living like a monk (say, $1800/mo? what do you think is a really small budget?) would see that take at least 6-7 years.

I do not think it will come to that, either my parents will sell the house(which they've hinted at doing but are shying away from now that this is an actual conversation)or I will be able to beg my grandparents for money(they have it but they're very fiscally conservative like that). I'm at the "you know if i don't get support I'm not doing this" phase of the venture and I believe that they'll bite.

If money is coming in one way or another, then the advice people are going to give you is going to be milder. If you want to say, I have 150k, I am adamant I'm spending it on law school don't try to convince me otherwise, I don't think you'll get a warm reception, but knock yourself out, you know? this just sounds like backpedaling to me, another excuse as to why you're not making the wrong decision, but I don't know your family, maybe the money does come through.

[Rigo]

You really need to prioritize getting a car and your license if you aren't going to Cardozo. Not doing so will be a huge impediment and drastically limit your job opportunities.

[Stylnator]

I'm a little confused. You went to Quinnipiac for 4 years. How can you not know that you need a car in CT? Did your friends just drive you around everywhere in undergrad?

[Ferrisjso]

I'm a little confused. You went to Quinnipiac for 4 years. How can you not know that you need a car in CT? Did your friends just drive you around everywhere in undergrad?

Yeah that and I walked(quinnipac also has a limited shuttle service). I know it will be more necessary in CT but I'm trying to put it out as long as possible because it's going to be really tough for me to do. Going to try to dedicate my summer to this.

[guynourmin]

I'm a little confused. You went to Quinnipiac for 4 years. How can you not know that you need a car in CT? Did your friends just drive you around everywhere in undergrad?

Yeah that and I walked(quinnipac also has a limited shuttle service). I know it will be more necessary in CT but I'm trying to put it out as long as possible because it's going to be really tough for me to do. Going to try to dedicate my summer to this.

Have you explained elsewhere why driving is so hard for you to learn how to do?

[Anon.y.mousse.]

I'm a little confused. You went to Quinnipiac for 4 years. How can you not know that you need a car in CT? Did your friends just drive you around everywhere in undergrad?

Yeah that and I walked(quinnipac also has a limited shuttle service). I know it will be more necessary in CT but I'm trying to put it out as long as possible because it's going to be really tough for me to do. Going to try to dedicate my summer to this.

Have you explained elsewhere why driving is so hard for you to learn how to do?

Seriously. Not trying to pile on but it took me two weeks to learn how to drive when I was 14 between the class and the like six required drives with an instructor. You're not going to turn into a NASCAR or road course racer or anything but it shouldn't really be that complicated to learn how to operate a car.

[blueapple]

I'll say that dodging cars may not be THE issue, but it's AN issue.

Eh, I don't really think so. It's not like because I have a driver's license I never walk anywhere. I don't see how knowing how to drive changes the fact that you have to look out for cars.

Oh, I just meant that if you really do walk everywhere you are likely to run across that one car you can't dodge. Like, if you consistently walk on the side of the road as a way of getting around someday you are going to get hit. (same may be true of car accidents in NY, but car v. car gives you much better odds than car v. human.)

Ah yeah I see what you're saying. Agree with you there

[areyn22]

You will absolutely need to learn how to drive if you're not going to school in a major city. In fact, even if you do end up in a major city, you should learn how to drive unless that city is NYC or Boston. I couldn't imagine living in Atlanta and having to rely on MARTA or walking to get everywhere. If you go to UCONN, you will more than likely not end up in either of these two cities and you can't rely on walking everywhere when you have important meetings/cases/whatnot scheduled.

Learning to drive isn't terribly hard. You can easily find hands-on driving courses pretty much anywhere; just make sure you research the specific requirements for a license in CT if that is where you're going to end up.

[areyn22]

You will absolutely need to learn how to drive if you're not going to school in a major city. In fact, even if you do end up in a major city, you should learn how to drive unless that city is NYC or Boston. I couldn't imagine living in Atlanta and having to rely on MARTA or walking to get everywhere. If you go to UCONN, you will more than likely not end up in either of these two cities and you can't rely on walking everywhere when you have important meetings/cases/whatnot scheduled.

Learning to drive isn't terribly hard. You can easily find hands-on driving courses pretty much anywhere; just make sure you research the specific requirements for a license in CT if that is where you're going to end up.

[trebekismyhero]

You will absolutely need to learn how to drive if you're not going to school in a major city. In fact, even if you do end up in a major city, you should learn how to drive unless that city is NYC or Boston. I couldn't imagine living in Atlanta and having to rely on MARTA or walking to get everywhere. If you go to UCONN, you will more than likely not end up in either of these two cities and you can't rely on walking everywhere when you have important meetings/cases/whatnot scheduled.

Learning to drive isn't terribly hard. You can easily find hands-on driving courses pretty much anywhere; just make sure you research the specific requirements for a license in CT if that is where you're going to end up.

You don't need a car in DC (assuming the metro isn't on fire) or Chicago either. But yeah, learning to drive shouldn't be that hard. I have driven in foreign cities and most major cities in the U.S. It is not that scary.

If it really is that big of an issue for you then you should go to Cardozo. Which is where you should go anyways, but I digress.

[areyn22]

You will absolutely need to learn how to drive if you're not going to school in a major city. In fact, even if you do end up in a major city, you should learn how to drive unless that city is NYC or Boston. I couldn't imagine living in Atlanta and having to rely on MARTA or walking to get everywhere. If you go to UCONN, you will more than likely not end up in either of these two cities and you can't rely on walking everywhere when you have important meetings/cases/whatnot scheduled.

Learning to drive isn't terribly hard. You can easily find hands-on driving courses pretty much anywhere; just make sure you research the specific requirements for a license in CT if that is where you're going to end up.

You don't need a car in DC (assuming the metro isn't on fire) or Chicago either. But yeah, learning to drive shouldn't be that hard. I have driven in foreign cities and most major cities in the U.S. It is not that scary.

If it really is that big of an issue for you then you should go to Cardozo. Which is where you should go anyways, but I digress.

Fair point! Yeah, barring the chance you end up in a major city with a functioning public transit system, definitely learn how to drive.

[A. Nony Mouse]

TBF, I get that learning to drive could be a big anxiety trigger. I didn't learn till I was 19 (because my dad tried to teach me when I was 16 and I hit our driveway wall and got freaked out about ever doing it again). But it is unfortunately a huge hindrance not to be able to and barring the most extreme issues the best way to get over it is just to drive a lot.

[Mikey]

But it is unfortunately a huge hindrance not to be able to and barring the most extreme issues the best way to get over it is just to drive a lot.

THIS

I learned to drive at 16 and got my license at 18. Don't have my own car, but have driven many times, including emergencies. It's always good to have your license in case of anything, even if you don't drive every day.