Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School: #TrustTheProcess Forum

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Biglaw1990

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Post by Biglaw1990 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:50 am

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WaitersIsland

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by WaitersIsland » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:58 am

Biglaw1990 wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:Keep classes around 290-300 and you're looking at 70%~ which is in line with the rest of the T14.
Well, if Penn cut its class by 50-60 people, it would probably place close to 100% (as would other top feeder schools). A feeder school should be able to place well regardless of size.
Michigan HAS cut its class size though. Last year's employment stats were for 390 graduates, this year's are for 350. Last year's 1L class had 267 students. These numbers are all we have to judge Michigan on now, but I would expect their numbers to continue to improve as smaller and smaller classes begin to graduate.

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jnwa

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by jnwa » Fri Apr 08, 2016 9:59 am

Biglaw1990 wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:Keep classes around 290-300 and you're looking at 70%~ which is in line with the rest of the T14.
Well, if Penn cut its class by 50-60 people, it would probably place close to 100% (as would other top feeder schools). A feeder school should be able to place well regardless of size.
Penn is already 100ish students smaller according to this data. By the most recent entering class theyll be 29 students smaller, makes a diff. I dont mind the Mich numbers though 8 point jump from last year is solid. Hopefully it keeps getting better with the shrinking size.

Biglaw1990

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Post by Biglaw1990 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:00 am

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bruceaquizzer1

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by bruceaquizzer1 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:01 am

W&L 77% JD required job
90.22 % employed

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Tiddlywinks

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Tiddlywinks » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:06 am

Biglaw1990 wrote:
WaitersIsland wrote:
Biglaw1990 wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:Keep classes around 290-300 and you're looking at 70%~ which is in line with the rest of the T14.
Well, if Penn cut its class by 50-60 people, it would probably place close to 100% (as would other top feeder schools). A feeder school should be able to place well regardless of size.
Michigan HAS cut its class size though. Last year's employment stats were for 390 graduates, this year's are for 350. Last year's 1L class had 267 students. These numbers are all we have to judge Michigan on now, but I would expect their numbers to continue to improve as smaller and smaller classes begin to graduate.
With an increase of 170+ test-takers, T14 enrollment might increase. We'll find out soon enough.
Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by stretchedtoothin » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:10 am

Tiddlywinks wrote: Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.
This is a pretty dumb point to make. Did you think about this before you made it?

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by zozo » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:18 am

Indiana- 18.7%
W&M- 25.3%

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Leonardo DiCaprio

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Leonardo DiCaprio » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:22 am

WaitersIsland wrote:Looks like Michigan's 100+ Firm + FC is 61%. LTBPR sitting at 85%.
lol. Michigan is done here.

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Tiddlywinks

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Tiddlywinks » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:23 am

stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote: Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.
This is a pretty dumb point to make. Did you think about this before you made it?
I guess it came out wrong. My point is that most schools with small classes, such as Cornell and Penn, are able to have higher %s due to that factor alone. Way less people to fit into a set number of spots a year. The class that just started has 80 less students then the this one just reported on which will help their numbers tremendously.

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by stretchedtoothin » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:24 am

Tiddlywinks wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote: Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.
This is a pretty dumb point to make. Did you think about this before you made it?
I guess it came out wrong. My point is that most schools with small classes, such as Cornell and Penn, are able to have higher %s due to that factor alone. Way less people to fit into a set number of spots a year. The class that just started has 80 less students then the this one just reported on which will help their numbers tremendously.
Duke, NYU, Northwestern, Columbia, UVA...

all schools with comparable or much larger class sizes than UM, and all do much better with their placement #s, even accounting for PI-self selection.

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mathis1490

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by mathis1490 » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:27 am

Tiddlywinks wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote: Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.
This is a pretty dumb point to make. Did you think about this before you made it?
I guess it came out wrong. My point is that most schools with small classes, such as Cornell and Penn, are able to have higher %s due to that factor alone. Way less people to fit into a set number of spots a year. The class that just started has 80 less students then the this one just reported on which will help their numbers tremendously.
Guys, GULC placed more people into BL/FC than Stanford has students. They are doing fine lololol

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jnwa

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by jnwa » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:31 am

stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote: Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.
This is a pretty dumb point to make. Did you think about this before you made it?
I guess it came out wrong. My point is that most schools with small classes, such as Cornell and Penn, are able to have higher %s due to that factor alone. Way less people to fit into a set number of spots a year. The class that just started has 80 less students then the this one just reported on which will help their numbers tremendously.
Duke, NYU, Northwestern, Columbia, UVA...

all schools with comparable or much larger class sizes than UM, and all do much better with their placement #s, even accounting for PI-self selection.
lmao Duke has like 130 less students NW has 90 less. UVA is fair NYU and Columbia are better schools.

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usernotfound

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by usernotfound » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:40 am

stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote: Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.
This is a pretty dumb point to make. Did you think about this before you made it?
I guess it came out wrong. My point is that most schools with small classes, such as Cornell and Penn, are able to have higher %s due to that factor alone. Way less people to fit into a set number of spots a year. The class that just started has 80 less students then the this one just reported on which will help their numbers tremendously.
Duke, NYU, Northwestern, Columbia, UVA...

all schools with comparable or much larger class sizes than UM, and all do much better with their placement #s, even accounting for PI-self selection.
But how do you know which numbers arise out of self-selection? UM probably has the most PI gunners in the T14, plus the numbers likely indicate 6%+ SSC clerkships that aren't counted in the BL+FC metric.

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by stretchedtoothin » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:44 am

I'm disinclined to think that UM has more honest-to-god PI gunners than NYU/Berkeley, and it's still unclear whether UM's reputation for PI self-selection (and placement #s) come from those honestly entering LS to do PI in the first place or whether that's a product of TLS explaining away the Michigan numbers when they started dropping. I digress though.

I think the majority of people on TLS aren't entering T14 law schools with the intent of doing PI fresh out of law school, so for many people, the BL+FC #s are important. It's weird to just say "oh yeah it's because of class size" because although it may be true, that doesn't really help any of the students who may have struck out in OCI 2014

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Backpacker » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:45 am

stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote:
stretchedtoothin wrote:
Tiddlywinks wrote: Michigan placed more people into BL/FC then Cornell has students. They're doing fine lol.. But yes to the above.
This is a pretty dumb point to make. Did you think about this before you made it?
I guess it came out wrong. My point is that most schools with small classes, such as Cornell and Penn, are able to have higher %s due to that factor alone. Way less people to fit into a set number of spots a year. The class that just started has 80 less students then the this one just reported on which will help their numbers tremendously.
Duke, NYU, Northwestern, Columbia, UVA...

all schools with comparable or much larger class sizes than UM, and all do much better with their placement #s, even accounting for PI-self selection.
Well, in the interest of truth, RE self selection-

Michigan: 19.7% PI/Gov
NYU: 16.9% PI/Gov (2014 data)
Virginia: 12.4% PI/Gov
Columbia: 12% PI/Gov (2014 data)
NW: 9.3% PI/Gov (2014 data)
Penn: 8.7% PI/Gov
Duke: 5.4% PI/Gov

I'd argue that explains some of the discrepancy WRT Michigan's BL/Fed metric versus employment overall. But I wouldnt argue that Michigan is on the same tier as CCN, or anything.

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Leonardo DiCaprio

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Leonardo DiCaprio » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:48 am

oh I was waiting for the "bu...bu...but PI! self-selection!" trope.

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Backpacker » Fri Apr 08, 2016 10:50 am

Leonardo DiCaprio wrote:oh I was waiting for the "bu...bu...but PI! self-selection!" trope.
nah, just numbers.

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Fiddlesticks » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:02 am

Looking at aggregate numbers isn't crazy. Firms come in hoping to bring in 'x' number of people.

Mich
BL + FC # / total students

2012 - 201 / 388
2013 - 228 / 399
2014 - 210 / 390
2015 - 216 / 354
2016 - ? / 330ish

If history repeats itself, they will be ~63%-66% next year.
By the time the 267 + 20ish transfers 2018 class hits. Assuming firms and Mich maintain this consistency, they would be at like ~71% - 76%

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Iwanttolawschool

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Iwanttolawschool » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:03 am

stretchedtoothin wrote:I'm disinclined to think that UM has more honest-to-god PI gunners than NYU/Berkeley, and it's still unclear whether UM's reputation for PI self-selection (and placement #s) come from those honestly entering LS to do PI in the first place or whether that's a product of TLS explaining away the Michigan numbers when they started dropping. I digress though.

I think the majority of people on TLS aren't entering T14 law schools with the intent of doing PI fresh out of law school, so for many people, the BL+FC #s are important. It's weird to just say "oh yeah it's because of class size" because although it may be true, that doesn't really help any of the students who may have struck out in OCI 2014
Strongly disagree as a Michigan student. It seems every 1L comes in saying they want only public interest here. Then many are swayed by time OCI rolls around.
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lymenheimer

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by lymenheimer » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:04 am

Fiddlesticks wrote:Looking at aggregate numbers isn't crazy. Firms come in hoping to bring in 'x' number of people.

Mich
BL + FC # / total students

2012 - 201 / 388
2013 - 228 / 399
2014 - 210 / 390
2015 - 216 / 354
2016 - ? / 330ish

If history repeats itself, they will be ~63%-66% next year.
By the time the 267 + 20ish transfers 2018 class hits. Assuming firms and Mich maintain this consistency, they would be at like ~71% - 76%
So what you're saying is that Michigan will cut all of it's prospective PI applicants...?

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by Fiddlesticks » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:29 am

lymenheimer wrote:
Fiddlesticks wrote:Looking at aggregate numbers isn't crazy. Firms come in hoping to bring in 'x' number of people.

Mich
BL + FC # / total students

2012 - 201 / 388
2013 - 228 / 399
2014 - 210 / 390
2015 - 216 / 354
2016 - ? / 330ish

If history repeats itself, they will be ~63%-66% next year.
By the time the 267 + 20ish transfers 2018 class hits. Assuming firms and Mich maintain this consistency, they would be at like ~71% - 76%
So what you're saying is that Michigan will cut all of it's prospective PI applicants...?
No no. It's not like 100% of people who want BL or FC get it, and no one said that. There are lots of PI or bust people, I'm sure. But, there are also some people who still strike out, not just at Mich - at all t14. So if firms keep taking around 210 kids from Mich, they will have to dip into the lower grades and/or awkward people.

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by BVest » Fri Apr 08, 2016 11:48 am

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

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KissMyAxe

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Re: Class of 2015 Employment Statistics by School

Post by KissMyAxe » Fri Apr 08, 2016 12:15 pm

stretchedtoothin wrote:I'm disinclined to think that UM has more honest-to-god PI gunners than NYU/Berkeley, and it's still unclear whether UM's reputation for PI self-selection (and placement #s) come from those honestly entering LS to do PI in the first place or whether that's a product of TLS explaining away the Michigan numbers when they started dropping. I digress though.

I think the majority of people on TLS aren't entering T14 law schools with the intent of doing PI fresh out of law school, so for many people, the BL+FC #s are important. It's weird to just say "oh yeah it's because of class size" because although it may be true, that doesn't really help any of the students who may have struck out in OCI 2014
Where the hell did you get this? I don't know about TLS students' goals, but you can't apply TLS', a very small subsection of the law school body, goals to the rest of the students. At YLS at least, pretty much everyone comes in saying they want PI, and Biglaw gunners are pretty much looked down on and viewed as selling out.

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