Hello Everyone,

I need to make a decision within a week.

I posted a similar question a while back about a range of schools, now I would like to filter it down to my last two options.

I am trying to nail down a decision between U of I and SLU Law. Saint Louis is very appealing due to the full-ride scholy they offered (1843 Scholar - 'name scholarship'). The problem is that my current financial situation is quite bad, and I have no outside help besides the loans I will take out. And I am not sure where I want to work after graduation. U of I's offer is nice, but I will need to borrow quite a bit anyways (an additional $50k for tuition alone).

Is the choice between the two schools vast in terms of future opportunities?

Your advice on the matter would be highly appreciated.

My stats:

LSDAC UG GPA: 3.60 (otherwise graduation GPA of 3.89) (Majors: Economics and Business)
Graduate GPA: 3.89 (Major Accounting)
LSAT: 164 (I am not planning to retake, this is my 3rd score after two cancellations).


Waitlists:

University of Virginia (depends on the timing of a potential offer of admission)
Washington University in Saint Louis (probably won't accept anyways)

Thank you.

What are your goals? SLU is a fine place to go if you want to work in St. Louis and don't want biglaw, but that's about it.

Well, when you refer to BigLaw, you probably mean 501+ firms. Looking at the employment statistics for both schools, the number of graduates who work in such firms are about the same. But I do understand that in general, very few people in STLU place in BigLaw.

My goals? It would be nice to work in BigLaw (perhaps I am naive assuming that) for a while and then moving to something else. I guess people are drawn to BigLaw for the $$$. I wouldn't mind that, however, I can't really say what is my ultimate goal...

I love DC, and I know that SLU places well there, especially because they have a health law program that is rated No. 1 (program ranking are not very important, I realize). Do I want to work in health law? I don't know...

I wouldn't mind a judicial clerkship as well. I heard that 1843 Scholars get decent placement in Title IV federal clerkships.

I spoke with a a number of attorneys and judges at work, some of whom are UIUC alums. The opinion varies among all of them. I guess some of them graduated law school long time ago, and the one consistent thing I heard is "you should aim to graduate at the top of your class, if possible".

The way I see it, I will have to borrow approx. $50k for tuition for UIUC + some living expenses. That could set me back 80K or so in 3 years. Is that worth it?

What? No.

UIUC gives you a "better" shot at biglaw, but it's really just a regional preference. Pick if you want STL or Chicago, and then go there. 80K worth of debt at UIUC is right where it should be.

Fair enough.

I wonder why everybody always refer to debt after graduation in terms of law school debt vs. all student loans debt.

In my case, $80K + $32K ... Still normal?

Ugh, well, not ideal, but not out of the ordinary.

If you find yourself below median at either of these schools, I'd drop out though.

Because most people aren't dumb enough to take out more debt if they have UG student loans...

P.S - $32K is undergrad and grad combined.

I think that 'most' people have such debts anyways, I bet 90% of the TLS community have such debt in addition to what they will incur in law school.

However, if you hint at me, then answer me this: Would you in my shoes take a full ride scholly at SLU Law or suck it up and go with UIUC?

Do you want Chicago or STL? Both give you roughly the same odds of full time legal employment per LST, with an edge to UIUC in the large firm department.

Have you asked Illinois for more money ?

SLU for St.Louis. If you have eyes for Wash DC, you need to get into Virginia. Plead with pride. Ask if you ED next cycle, are your chances good since you were waitlisted this year. But, if you have little to no tolerance for debt, then take one of your two current options.

P.S. It's difficult to offer solid advice when you have no preferred market & your only two options are regional law schools.

Well I'm never a fan of taking out 130k of debt for a non T18, which it will be after interest...

What about attending STL and seeking employment in Chicago ... would that be very hard? I do understand that Chicago is being fed by a lot of schools...I do have a master's in accounting, I wonder if that gives me an edge assuming I get good grades.

I am not a huge fan of STL as a city ... could I work there for a year or two ... probably ... but outside T14, nothing is guaranteed I guess. From what you are saying, I am going to be stuck to choose one midwest location over another, with little chance to get out further away...

True.

Actually there is another caveat to the whole decision.


I may be able to work part time in my current job and earn 20-30K a year (15-20 hour a week) while attending law school full time in saint Louis - they can give me 2 afternoons free to do my work (full time school with some flexibility). Urbana told me that it may be a challenge to do so...

So in saint louis, I may not only have 0 tuition debt, but maybe 0 total debt (living expenses and so on).

Illinois raised the scholly from 50% to 66%. But that's the max they are willing to give.

I don't want to live on this planet anymore. You don't like StLouis and you want a shot at BigLaw and you're still considering SLU??

It's not a good idea to work during 1l either

If you want DC, neither is a great choice, but I guess SLU is at least free. Good luck!

well I should rephrase... lol

STL vs. Chicago - I like Chicago more, however, i guess it comes down to what I will earn in either city. If I don't get a good job in Chicago, will I be happy? I just heard that most if not all of the 1843 Scholars from SLU are doing quite well. In SLU there are a few BigLaw firms, but they don't hire as many people from SLU as from Wash U, but they still do hire...

Looking at the debt I will accumulate, I just wonder whether getting out of SLU with potentially zero debt will place me in a more comfortable spot then 80-100K debt from UIUC ...

Job - it will be a mix of 7.5 in office + 7.5 from home. Not a bad option but im still considering dropping the idea.

In your shoes, I would personally become a CPA or something accounting related. If you choose to attend law school with these options, you are not really looking at increasing your earning potential while incurring possibly more debt and definite loss of three year's worth of opportunity costs.

1) Yes, it would be pretty much impossible actually
2) I really like when people say "I could live in X state initially, but then I think I want to be in region Y" - what are you going to do, take another bar exam when you're 35 and 5 years into practicing?
3) You have a Master's in accounting? Go work for a Big4 firm or something bro.

With respect to number 2 in the post above: Only necessary to take another bar exam if you belong to or want to join a "non-reciprocal" state bar; otherwise, you can just take the abbreviated attorney's exam if you have 5 years of bar membership in a reciprocal jurisdiction to reciprocal jurisdiction. Of course, there may be variations as each state makes their own state bar membership rules.

The more important question is how practical would it be to just disrupt our entire life and practice to move to another state. Probably a lot more feasible if you're lateraling biglaw firms than if you are working in a small firm like most SLU grads

Subtle USC trolling

First, I would like to thank everyone for their time and suggestions.


Without quoting the above folks, I will add that dropping the idea of law school is pretty scary, because I almost put my life on hold for the past 2 years taking and retaking the LSAT, working to graduate with my Master's degree, working, all while looking forward to attend law school some day. With respect to becoming a CPA (I am slowwwwly studying for this exam ... slowwwwly ...), I don't know if I really want to be stuck in the accounting field all my life. Nevertheless, I do understand that neither option is superb, as compared to those folks who attend t14 schools.

From what I understand:

1) If I go to SLU and want to do some type of BigLaw, I better graduate in the top 10-20%, and even then nothing is guaranteed...
2) UIUC ... better school, but still mostly a regional reach...
3) The debt level I am going to accumulate from UIUC is reasonable, but still shitty when combined with my UG debt.

Is there a way out of this whole situation by doing a Federal Clerkship over 2L for example and then pave a road to BigLaw?

Not everyone can attend a t14 school, and I am not sure if I could even swallow 60k debt a year from UVA if I get admitted (from the emails I got, I am still in a favorable waitlist spot, just waiting for someone to drop out).

Good clerkships are even harder to get than biglaw, so unless your mom or dad is a federal judge, nope.

Clerkships are insanely competitive. If you have the grades for those then you'd have the grades for biglaw. I would take Illinois easily in this situation (or uva if you get in). Better job prospects and you don't like the market that like 90% of SLU grads end up in