I am a 3L at a pretty good school, have been reasonably successful, happy to answer questions on any of the following topics-

Applications
Exams
Public Interest Jobs
Clerkships

I know a little bit about firm hiring as well, and may even remember general things about the LSAT.

Seconded because I would ask the same questions anyway.

The United States has never lost a war in which mules were used.

The United States has never lost ANY war. Sometimes we just don't win as much as we hoped.



I am curious what rank school you went to and regret any decisions you made in the admissions process ?

Do you have a job lined up upon graduation?

Sure. Interestingly, clerkships and PI jobs are very different animals. With clerkships, there is usually no shortcut (unless you are just very lucky in who you know). If you are just applying blindly, you will need good grades, preferably law review but definitely some meaningful journal work, and strong recommendations from professors. If you can get a professor to call, even if they don't know the judge, that will help a lot.

Public interest is usually less grade focused (its hard to generalize though, some public interest jobs will require top grades (NAACP LDF, DOJ, some quasi-public interest law firms). The key to getting those jobs is establishing a strong commitment to the field. Do internships, pro bono, etc. Those things will probably matter more than your school or grades (within reason). Finding a professor who has worked in the field, or even better, for an organization you are interested in, is helpful because they will have lots of contacts.

In terms of doing well in law school, my theory is there generally isn't a substitute for (efficient) hard work. At a "top" law school, most of the people around you will be very smart, and my anecdotal experience is that the top people are very disciplined and put in a ton of hours. The thing I didn't realize until later in LS, though, is that its very important to be smart about how you work. Make sure that you are understanding the material as you learn it. After every class, it is helpful to spend a few minutes jotting down maybe a paragraph about the material you covered. Similarly, if you can keep a list of cases with a sentence or so describing the holding, that is helpful. This helps you keep the big picture in mind. (It's not a substitute for doing all the reading and having a comprehensive knowledge, though)

Also, practice exams are key. If you are committed to doing well, you would be crazy not to take practice exams for each class you're able to. Many professors only vary there exams slightly each year. You get a feel for how the material is presented in question form, and it's really invaluable.

Aside from working hard/smart academically, I would recommend getting to know professors. They typically have a lot of connections that will be very helpful to you. The best ways to do this are taking seminars, doing research for them, and having them supervise research/writing projects of yours.



I am at a school ranked in the top 10 or so. I don't have any regrets (other than, around finals time, having applied at all). However, I do have a different perception now then I did when I applied. I was firmly a "highest rank school you get into" advocate, and paid sticker for my education. Now I am less convinced that the school you go to matters very much (within a certain range). I don't think taking a full scholarship to a top 20 school, rather than going to Michigan, for example, would be a bad idea. This may not be the case for people looking at big law firms though.



I will be clerking, but I don't have a job lined up after that. That's the nature of public interest, I guess.



Any other questions?

This is for us 0Ls--Can you give us a Do's and Don't list when for you first get to law school and throughout your first year.

Just advice to keep us on the right path

Thanks

If many people are competing with the same priorities in mind (aka networking with professors), isn't there a lot of competition you have to overcome in order to get noticed?

Surprisingly, at least in my experience, most people do not have this as a priority. Sure 1Ls often mob the professor after class to try to get face time, or go to office hours, but most of them don't seem interested in getting to know professors, and don't really form relationships with them. I could be wrong, but I was surprised how easy it was to approach professors. If you find someone doing work in an area of interest to you, and just go to their office to say "I learned you are currently researching X," and ask them questions about it. If you have a genuine interest, they will usually be very receptive. This is especially true if you pick the less "popular" professors. Best case scenario, you end up doing research for them, learning about a field you like, and have a lot of closely supervised research and writing that is the basis for a recommendation in the future.

Also, participate in class.



There's no way to make a comprehensive list, but i guess- Don't get behind in your work. Do the reading for every class. It's very hard to catch up otherwise. Don't talk just to talk, but do participate. One very well thought out comment is better than 10 without substance. Don't fall into the web of stress that will entangle your peers (or try not to, as best you can). Do try to be on a journal. Try for law review, at most schools there is a substantial writing component and even if your grades aren't there you might have a shot. Don't get caught up in doing extracurriculars. Certainly join organizations you're interested in, but don't join stuff just to help your resume. It will waste your time and not be helpful. (One caveat, if you are interested in a specific field, esp. public interest, do join the relevant organization at your school. So if you want to be an environmental lawyer, join the environmental law group). Do take advantage of free lunches. Do make your own outline. Do take practice exams. Don't join a study group that will just be social- either study on your own or with a serious group and save socializing for social time.

Those are just the ones I can think of at the moment.

I am too tired to think of any questions right now, so I will do so perhaps tomorrow.

Until then, I just want to say THANKS for taking the time - you're awesome!

thanks

+1 to both.

I come from a music background, so naturally I'm a little worried about being efficient at writing, given that it will be such a crucial element of grades. Do you have any advice for working on writing in the months leading up to LS? Obviously, the answer is "write more" but I'm wondering if you have any more specific suggestions. Thanks.

Do drug mules count?

I would like to know what is the best way to prepare yourself for studying in law school. I don't mean like doing LEEWS but mentally. Should you just say I am not going to have a life the first semester and adjust from there, be on a really strict study schedule, or just wing it?

Just wanted to say thanks for the info.

Hm. I think you're right that writing is an important element of law school. Although the content of exams matters more than the style, a well written, clearly organized answer is definitely your goal. The good news is that your writing will likely improve a lot in law school. But you may want to get a head start on that.

I would recommend writing as much as possible. It may be worth it to take a writing course of some kind over the summer. Journalistic writing might be helpful, as it will force you to learn to write short clear sentences. Some of the best legal writers I know are former journalists. Make sure you are constantly forcing yourself to write clearly and succinctly. The biggest traps I've seen law students run into are trying to sound smart and failure to organize well.

Lastly, you are probably a better writer than you think! The average writing ability of lawyers is not very high, in my experience. So you may be surprised.



I think the answer depends on the kind of person you are. You have to find the strategy that works best for you. If you are very self disciplined and now you can stick to a rigid schedule, that may be the answer. If you know that will never work, but you trust yourself to get all the work done somehow, you may want to wing it. I tend to be by nature a winger, and when I try to make strict schedules, they end up falling apart, but I make ad hoc plans that work out.

As far as just saying you will have no life, that is a reasonable approach, and will make you less resentful of the time suck that is 1L if you accept it up front. I wouldn't totally eliminate fun, though. Your brain does need a break sometimes. It sounds crappy, but spending most of your time working and not having much of a life your first year will probably help your grades.

Are tests handwritten or typed?

lulz

Did you do any 0L prep before law school (books like PLS, Getting to Maybe, etc., E&Es, or LEEWS)? If so, would you say it helped at all, and what would you recommend based on your experience? If not, do you wish that you did?

Thanks again.

Is it lame to call yourself a 1.5L?

Exams are typed. That raises another good tip. If you don't type very fast, start practicing now. It's unfair, but people who can type 100 words a minute will be able to get far more down than those who are slower. That often makes a big difference, since many professors just have a checklist and grade based on how many issues you discuss.



I didn't do any and wouldn't particularly recommend it. Mainly because it seems like kind of a waste of time and/or money. All the people I know who did really well did not do that stuff. I read getting to maybe during my first semester. I think it was moderately helpful, but don't read it like a bible, just try to get the general gist of their ideas. As for learning the substantive stuff prior to law school, I think people fare better when they learn the material in the way the professor wants them to. You are not tested on "contracts," you are tested on what your professor thinks contracts is. This is where people get into trouble over-relying on hornbooks. The best thing to do is take down what your professor says about the material in class, and use that as a baseline. How true this is varies by class. A class like civ pro or evidence doesn't have much room for variation, so you can learn it mostly from Glannon. But if you try to teach yourself contracts entirely from a hornbook, you will likely be miles away from your professor's conception of it.



I don't have any opinion on this.