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Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 62 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:36 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:48 pm
Archived Posts: 3471
BoaltTroll wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:
BoaltTroll wrote:
I hate affirmative action with a passion.
Have you looked up Ward Connerly and Clarence Thomas? They are two of the worst sellouts ever--and they would LOVE you.


What, you actually think AA is justified? You realize that not all white people are rich and come from privileged backgrounds, right? Not all white people were lucky enough to win the "white lottery" and end up at Ivy undergrads or have enough money to pay for top prep courses. Most white people grew up just across the street with their black friends. Yet those white people don't have Jesse Jackson and the NAACP lobbying for them and they can't call up their nonexistent rich white friends and work their nonexistent connections.


Yes, I do. But you don't have to.

What do you think of the following phrase: "I might be poor and uneducated, but at least I ain't a N****R"? It was popular among poor Southern whites way back in the day. They knew what they were talking about.


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:40 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:33 pm
Archived Posts: 54
OperaAttorney wrote:
BoaltTroll wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:
BoaltTroll wrote:
I hate affirmative action with a passion.
Have you looked up Ward Connerly and Clarence Thomas? They are two of the worst sellouts ever--and they would LOVE you.


What, you actually think AA is justified? You realize that not all white people are rich and come from privileged backgrounds, right? Not all white people were lucky enough to win the "white lottery" and end up at Ivy undergrads or have enough money to pay for top prep courses. Most white people grew up just across the street with their black friends. Yet those white people don't have Jesse Jackson and the NAACP lobbying for them and they can't call up their nonexistent rich white friends and work their nonexistent connections.


Yes, I do. But you don't have to.

What do you think of the following phrase: "I might be poor and uneducated, but at least I ain't a N****R"? It was popular among poor Southern whites way back in the day. They knew what they were talking about.


You're hilarious. You are extrapolating a derogatory phrase that only a handful of people used (and popularized by the media) to mean that poor white people have it easier than black people today. That is utter nonsense.


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:46 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:48 pm
Archived Posts: 3471
BoaltTroll wrote:

You don't get it, or you're blinded. It's not systemic racism. It's systemic classism. Only rich or upper-class white males dominate the professional class in America. That is a very small subset of white people. Rich white guys have access to Ivy educations, great prep courses, and tutors. They are trained their entire life for tests like the LSAT. That does not make them smarter.

My main point is that poor and rural white males and females have just as hard of a time getting into good law schools as black people with whom they generally grow up with.
Yet black males and females get URM status and fantastic scholarships.


My dear BoaltTroll, the italicized statement above is patently false. Here's a question for you: since blacks and poor whites supposedly have it equally bad, would you trade your whiteness for blackness in order to reap the "rewards" that accompany URM status?


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:48 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:33 pm
Archived Posts: 54
OperaAttorney wrote:
BoaltTroll wrote:

You don't get it, or you're blinded. It's not systemic racism. It's systemic classism. Only rich or upper-class white males dominate the professional class in America. That is a very small subset of white people. Rich white guys have access to Ivy educations, great prep courses, and tutors. They are trained their entire life for tests like the LSAT. That does not make them smarter.

My main point is that poor and rural white males and females have just as hard of a time getting into good law schools as black people with whom they generally grow up with.
Yet black males and females get URM status and fantastic scholarships.


My dear BoaltTroll, the italicized statement above is patently false. Here's a question for you: since blacks and poor whites supposedly have it equally bad, would you trade your whiteness for blackness in order to reap the "rewards" that accompany URM status?


Had I been black with my GPA and LSAT score, I would be at Yale right now instead of Boalt Hall. Would Barak Obama trade his blackness for being white if it would mean he wouldn't have gone to Yale, but ended up at Boalt instead?

*EDIT* Harvard, not Yale


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:52 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:48 pm
Archived Posts: 3471
BoaltTroll wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:
BoaltTroll wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:
Have you looked up Ward Connerly and Clarence Thomas? They are two of the worst sellouts ever--and they would LOVE you.


What, you actually think AA is justified? You realize that not all white people are rich and come from privileged backgrounds, right? Not all white people were lucky enough to win the "white lottery" and end up at Ivy undergrads or have enough money to pay for top prep courses. Most white people grew up just across the street with their black friends. Yet those white people don't have Jesse Jackson and the NAACP lobbying for them and they can't call up their nonexistent rich white friends and work their nonexistent connections.


Yes, I do. But you don't have to.

What do you think of the following phrase: "I might be poor and uneducated, but at least I ain't a N****R"? It was popular among poor Southern whites way back in the day. They knew what they were talking about.


You're hilarious. You are extrapolating a derogatory phrase that only a handful of people used (and popularized by the media) to mean that poor white people have it easier than black people today. That is utter nonsense.

If you think that only a handful of white people used that phrase, then you're even more naive than I'd originally thought. I won't argue with you, though; you're a mere law school student.


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:54 pm 

Joined: Tue Jan 29, 2008 1:33 pm
Archived Posts: 54
Quote:
If you think that only a handful of white people used that phrase, then you're even more naive than I'd originally thought. I won't argue with you, though; you're a mere law school student.


Nice ad hominem. That's the easy way out.


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 8:59 pm 

Joined: Fri Nov 30, 2007 3:09 pm
Archived Posts: 83
BoaltTroll:

AA is not premised on the idea that all whites are substantially privileged. It was premised on the fact that minorities and women were underrepresented in various institutions and professions.

Yes, there are disadvantaged whites that would benefit from a more comprehensive AA policy. But just because AA can be made more sensitive to issues of disadvantage doesn't mean it isn't justified as it stands. Furthermore, white women have been the primary beneficiary of AA policies.

I think socioeconomic AA is justified, but not in place of race and gender AA.


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 9:01 pm 

Joined: Thu Aug 09, 2007 11:48 pm
Archived Posts: 3471
BoaltTroll wrote:

Had I been black with my GPA and LSAT score, I would be at Yale right now instead of Boalt Hall. Would Barak Obama trade his blackness for being white if it would mean he wouldn't have gone to Yale, but ended up at Boalt instead?

*EDIT* Harvard, not Yale


First, your GPA and LSAT score didn't keep you out of YALE; your pettiness, arrogance, and undistinguished writing skills did the job. But you're at UC Berkeley Law--GET OVER IT!

Second, Barack Obama was happy with his Harvard acceptance.

Third, I sincerely hope you're a flame because right now you sound like a bitter fool.


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:15 pm 

Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2008 1:01 pm
Archived Posts: 127
BoaltTroll wrote:
OperaAttorney wrote:
BoaltTroll wrote:
I hate affirmative action with a passion.
Have you looked up Ward Connerly and Clarence Thomas? They are two of the worst sellouts ever--and they would LOVE you.


What, you actually think AA is justified? You realize that not all white people are rich and come from privileged backgrounds, right? Not all white people were lucky enough to win the "white lottery" and end up at Ivy undergrads or have enough money to pay for top prep courses. Most white people grew up just across the street with their black friends. Yet those white people don't have Jesse Jackson and the NAACP lobbying for them and they can't call up their nonexistent rich white friends and work their nonexistent connections.


I was just waiting for some ignorant person to take this thread to an AA debate. News flash--its not allowed in here. Maybe you missed it when they removed it from the board index's description of this subforum. :roll:


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sat Feb 16, 2008 10:34 pm 

Joined: Sun Dec 03, 2006 8:18 pm
Archived Posts: 708
Location: L.A.
Dear Boalt Troll and Opera Attorney,

First of all, thank you for posting so many times on my thread. It is the first thread of mine that has hit the three page mark. I would just like to clarify something something before making a point.

1) Just to clarify: URMs (The ones who the a "boost" in the admissions process) are any one who has traditionally been denied access to higher education. The immediately preceding statement captures the essence of AA for admissions purposes. This denial of access can be within a certain field, such as law ... "How is this measured?", you may ask. It is measured based on a comparison of two things: 1) the % of a group within society; 2) the % of that same group in higher education (or any subgroup thereof, like law school). If the % of a certain group in whatever area of higher education is traditionally much lower than that in the general population, then that group is an URM.

2) Notice that the phrasing is just "if a group within society is..." If you look closely, you will see that no groups are specified; it could be any group.

This is consistent with helping poor, underprivileged whites as well; the % of whites from such a background in law is very low.

If you ask, "what is the motivation behind this kind of AA?" you would probably see that it is to make the diversity of attorneys mirror the diversity of society. That is (ideally) so that each sub-group of society can be represented by attorneys who identify with their clients. If this were done, would it be enough to make this goal a reality?; no. However, it would at least make it possible. As it turns out, no institutional plan would be enough to make this a reality because institutional plans cannot make attorneys want to represent their own people. ... For a moment, assume that LS admission's brand of AA reached its goal: Hypothetically, if every attorney who was a "minority" - as the term is defined above - decided to take up public interest work, then each group in society could be represented by an attorney with whom its members identify.

Of course this is only a hypothetical ...

I feel like AA is society's way of trying to provide itself with a mere necessary condition that it would not otherwise have; a condition of what I like to call "potentially equitable legal representation."

Yours

-Mattalones


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 Post subject: This debate may move to another forum soon
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 2:46 am 

Joined: Sat Jun 11, 2005 6:22 am
Archived Posts: 1660
I wanted to thank everyone for their posts on this thread. However, it is turning into a typical AA debate which is fine, but not really for this forum. This forum is designed for minority and non-traditional students to positively convey knowledge and discuss relevant issues. I prefer that AA debates be in the Law School Admissions as I do not want any acrimony from an AA debate to spill over to this forum. Hopefully no one minds if this debate continues that I move the thread to the law school admissions forum.

Boalt Troll, I do not believe you go to Boalt. Is your name reflective of your wanting to attend Boalt?

Best,

Ken


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 Post subject: Re: URM & admitted to a "reach?" Is it smater to go elswhere?
PostPosted: Sun Feb 17, 2008 6:43 pm 
Pirate, Esq.

Joined: Mon Oct 19, 1981 12:25 am
Archived Posts: 9675
Location: 41.89' N, 87.61' W
Simpler answer Ken.


<BIG RED TEXT> NO AA DEBATES HERE. ONLY WARNING FOR EVERYONE INVOLVED. TAKE IT TO THE ADMISSIONS FORUM OR LOUNGE</BIG RED TEXT>


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